No More Superbikes for KTM - CEO Says They're Too Dangerous For Public Roads

[griff2]

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By that same logic they shouldn't make a more powerful car than a prius. Just saying.

It's just a matter of time before power-to-weight restrictions on most vehicles are implemented for both road safety and environmental reasons.

 

[Roomie]

At the rate the world is being managed pretty soon we'll have regulations on when we can pee too.

If they want road safety change how the driver training systems allows anyone to go write a multiple choice test and hop on a busa. Our licensing system is a circus at best. Poor ability/skills are what makes the roads dangerous.

 

[Shaman]

I think it's perfectly viable for a CEO to look over the whole motorcycle landscape and decide to reject one area to concentrate on another. Why fight for scraps at the very high when you can sell boatloads in the middle? The RC 390 shows the hunger for less stupid sport bikes. Building on that with 490, 590 etc opens up a whole new class of warfare and sales.

Agreed, but why landmine the road behind you?

 

[mxs]

What landmine are you talking of? The one riddled with sweet growth in years to come??

I have no problem with them deciding not to sell street legal superbike, albeit, you can certainly get equally yourself in hard spot with the SuperDuke ... so he's perhaps not completely honest with himself.

But the rhetoric doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[Face]

and not to mention that several European companies are starting to put muzzles on super bikes. For example, France, a huge market, doesn't allow bikes with more than 100hp to be registered. Your brand new shiny Kawi supercharged bike caps out at 100hp via ECU restriction. Sure, you can get it refreshed, but you have to get your vehicles inspected every 2 years in most countries in Europe. Would mean re-flashing back, removing all performance mods, getting tested, then reinstall and re-flash. A bit pain in the butt.

From what I understand, several other countries are considering such measures, Switzerland and Austria being 2 of those countries.

So, maybe, just maybe, KTM is getting some sort of government tax breaks by removing their Superbike from the market. Never mind that the SuperDuke makes the same power, it's not a Super Bike class. All in public perception.

So today KTM plays politics, makes nice, and generates some media attention...

Because sales were poor

To justify dropping a product that didn't sell well...

So why are they investing in a prototype +250hp racing bike for MotoGP in 2017?

But if the RC16 gets good reviews and performs well in MotoGP, they'll backtrack and bring out their street version, due to popular demand of course...

I think it's perfectly viable for a CEO to look over the whole motorcycle landscape and decide to reject one area to concentrate on another. Why fight for scraps at the very high when you can sell boatloads in the middle? The RC 390 shows the hunger for less stupid sport bikes. Building on that with 490, 590 etc opens up a whole new class of warfare and sales.

And in the mean time, they'll develop and sell boatloads of their mid range sport bikes, even V-twins.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/01/0...torcycles-from-ktm-and-husqvarna-coming-soon/

Sounds like a good political and marketing strategy to me.

 

[cool]

I dont understand why NA consider KTM as premium brand at all. They're not European but trying to be like one.

In Asia their bikes are dirt cheap. But here as along as they have premium price tag, ppl will think its premium brand

 

[Iceman]

I dont understand why NA consider KTM as premium brand at all. They're not European but trying to be like one.

In Asia their bikes are dirt cheap. But here as along as they have premium price tag, ppl will think its premium brand

Have you ridden one? I haven't ridden any ktm street bikes, but I can tell you that their dirt offerings certainly are a premium brand. Brembo, wp, magura clutches, the Japanese brands don't even come close IMO.

 

[corpse]

driver training systems allows anyone to go write a multiple choice test and hop on a busa.

price of insurance will stop most from doing that...

 

[cool]

Have you ridden one? I haven't ridden any ktm street bikes, but I can tell you that their dirt offerings certainly are a premium brand. Brembo, wp, magura clutches, the Japanese brands don't even come close IMO.

Thats what they're known for. Their street bikes are pure overrated.

 

[cool]

price of insurance will stop most from doing that...

His point is spot on tho. Every countries i have been to has different license levels for bikes class or displacement.

 

[mxs]

I dont understand why NA consider KTM as premium brand at all. They're not European but trying to be like one.

In Asia their bikes are dirt cheap. But here as along as they have premium price tag, ppl will think its premium brand

KTM is not an European company??? Enlighten us pls, where do you place them??? Pls don't say Asian .... unless of course you consider Apple an Asian company as well ... LOL

The bikes KTM sells in Asia is mainly Duke 125cc to 390cc ... I think you can get now the Euro made 690cc but you will pay dearly because of import duties and taxes. I don't think you can even order the higher end Adventure models or Super Duke. If you can, good luck paying for it with the hard earned local cash.

 

[corpse]

Have you ridden one? I haven't ridden any ktm street bikes, but I can tell you that their dirt offerings certainly are a premium brand. Brembo, wp, magura clutches, the Japanese brands don't even come close IMO.

+1 best dirtbikes out there

 

[Roomie]

price of insurance will stop most from doing that...

Insurance? Lots of the bros without that....just a plate and sticker and a vest. Seriously though it should be limited no matter who you are. People shouldn't be learning on things like a rc8.

His point is spot on tho. Every countries i have been to has different license levels for bikes class or displacement.

This is what we need to calm the entitled down.

 

[Brian P]

and not to mention that several European companies are starting to put muzzles on super bikes. For example, France, a huge market, doesn't allow bikes with more than 100hp to be registered. Your brand new shiny Kawi supercharged bike caps out at 100hp via ECU restriction. Sure, you can get it refreshed, but you have to get your vehicles inspected every 2 years in most countries in Europe. Would mean re-flashing back, removing all performance mods, getting tested, then reinstall and re-flash. A bit pain in the butt.

From what I understand, several other countries are considering such measures, Switzerland and Austria being 2 of those countries.

So, maybe, just maybe, KTM is getting some sort of government tax breaks by removing their Superbike from the market. Never mind that the SuperDuke makes the same power, it's not a Super Bike class. All in public perception.

As I understand it, as part of the Europe-wide restructuring and harmonization of motorcycle classes and licensing (same one that is bringing all sorts of 40-some-odd horsepower bikes to market including RC390, Yamaha R3, Honda CBR500, etc), France is being made to revoke their long-standing 100hp limit. They are going that route rather than a Europe-wide 100hp limit because there was no statistical evidence to support keeping the horsepower limit. Switzerland is not part of "the rest of Europe" and could very well do their own thing.

With the Euro4 emissions coming into effect in 2016, which will require OBD and testing after 50,000k of every model and emissions revamp if there is a fail, the cost of 200hp rockets that meet road regs may get very difficult to build and sell. If sales were not rocking the office to start, no more money in the bucket will be the CEO's new focus. I would expect the landscape in Europe to change significantly in the next 2 years.

The auto manufacturers know how to meet Euro 4 (and 5 and 6) emissions with spark-ignition gasoline engines, pretty much regardless of power level, and OBDII is old hat nowadays. BUT ... There is a date (I don't know what it is) beyond which current-production vehicles certified to prior emission standards (includes the RC8) would have to be re-certified, and re-engineered as necessary, to meet the new standard. It's pretty likely that the RC8's low production volume didn't justify this.

For what it's worth, the Kawasaki H2 has closed-loop EFI with lambda sensor and 3-way catalyst, just like any car, and just like later-model bikes have generally used. It doesn't have OBDII nor the extra catalyst-monitoring sensor that it would need.

The thing that would really throw a wrench in the works would be if the regulators imposed CO2 emission limits or penalties on motorcycles as has been already done for cars in Europe (and, via "corporate average fuel economy", also in the USA). CO2 goes hand-in-hand with fuel consumption, they are inextricably linked, and the high-performance bikes use more fuel than a good many small cars ...

 

[Brian P]

Perhaps sales weren't great but could it also be that the reason the sales were poor was people simply didn't want to buy a bike which would be hard pressed to meet new incoming regulations?

Would you buy a brand new bike that you knew likely wouldn't in two years any longer be road legal?

Doesn't work that way (special case/exception below). Your pre-emissions vehicle that you bought brand new in 1970 is still legal to use on the road today. It's just like Drive Clean here. The car is only required to meet standards that were in effect at the date of its original manufacture (actually a little bit worse to account for deterioration).

Some smog-prone areas have restrictions on use of older vehicles in downtown areas but it's not based on only allowing "current" vehicles but rather disallowing vehicles that are several emission-control generations old. No one is going to be restricting the use of Euro 3 compliant motorcycles any time soon just because they now have Euro 4. (The bikes that could be affected by foreseeable emission-related travel restrictions are mostly two-strokes and older engines with no emission controls whatsoever. Mass-market motorcycles in Europe have been EFI / 3-way catalyst for a long time.)

 

[bitzz]

I dont understand why NA consider KTM as premium brand at all. They're not European but trying to be like one.

In Asia their bikes are dirt cheap. But here as along as they have premium price tag, ppl will think its premium brand

KTM is not a European company?
When did they move Austria? I have a hard time keeping up.

 

[crankcall]

As I understand it, as part of the Europe-wide restructuring and harmonization of motorcycle classes and licensing (same one that is bringing all sorts of 40-some-odd horsepower bikes to market including RC390, Yamaha R3, Honda CBR500, etc), France is being made to revoke their long-standing 100hp limit. They are going that route rather than a Europe-wide 100hp limit because there was no statistical evidence to support keeping the horsepower limit. Switzerland is not part of "the rest of Europe" and could very well do their own thing.



The auto manufacturers know how to meet Euro 4 (and 5 and 6) emissions with spark-ignition gasoline engines, pretty much regardless of power level, and OBDII is old hat nowadays. BUT ... There is a date (I don't know what it is) beyond which current-production vehicles certified to prior emission standards (includes the RC8) would have to be re-certified, and re-engineered as necessary, to meet the new standard. It's pretty likely that the RC8's low production volume didn't justify this.

For what it's worth, the Kawasaki H2 has closed-loop EFI with lambda sensor and 3-way catalyst, just like any car, and just like later-model bikes have generally used. It doesn't have OBDII nor the extra catalyst-monitoring sensor that it would need.

The thing that would really throw a wrench in the works would be if the regulators imposed CO2 emission limits or penalties on motorcycles as has been already done for cars in Europe (and, via "corporate average fuel economy", also in the USA). CO2 goes hand-in-hand with fuel consumption, they are inextricably linked, and the high-performance bikes use more fuel than a good many small cars ...

Your very right OBD11 is very old hat, for manufacturers that have needed it, now its just another thing to include. The new limits will make small production runs really expensive. Add poor guys like Bimota using an existing Ducati engine, but no OBD11 linkage, and add ABS which Bosch will sell you for a few hundred thou euros to get going, as long as the travel on suspension doesnt change in model or your re engineering.
There is discussion licensing in UK for bike not meeting new emissions will be punishing to the point a five yr old bike operated in London may cost the value of the bike to plated and insure.
Now if you dont want to hire somebody to put 50,000k on an engine for secondary testing you can buy a simulator, whats that? about another half a mil?
The fun police will make it so if you cant produce many thousands of units to bring a cost down your not going to see small run originals.

 

[cool]

KTM is not an European company??? Enlighten us pls, where do you place them??? Pls don't say Asian .... unless of course you consider Apple an Asian company as well ... LOL

The bikes KTM sells in Asia is mainly Duke 125cc to 390cc ... I think you can get now the Euro made 690cc but you will pay dearly because of import duties and taxes. I don't think you can even order the higher end Adventure models or Super Duke. If you can, good luck paying for it with the hard earned local cash.

If Apple is 47% owned by Asian then yes i would consider it Asian

 

[Scuba Steve]

Strange my KTM street bike was made in Austria and has all top level components Brembo magura and Bosch. What would make it an Asian bike?

sent from a device using a program

 

[crankcall]

If Apple is 47% owned by Asian then yes i would consider it Asian

somebody better change the area code for Vancouver, its now part of China.

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