New Highway 413 Yea or Nay?

[nobbie48]

It would be cheaper and accomplished the same thing for the province to pay the tolls for truck traffic on the 407. But would be political suicide.

Sent from my couch using my thumbs

It's worth looking at. I would want to see the numbers but even just subsidizing them would do a partial shift away from the 401. At peak times the combined highway capacities are beyond their limits. If the approx $1.50 a KM for a semi went to a dollar how many would move over to the 407? Remember, if it gets too busy it's no longer an express.

Problem 2 is that the government has no say in setting rates. The 407 will generate its own sweet spots on its own profit calculations. They don't care if the 401 is packed or deserted.

 

[nobbie48]

Toronto proper has a chance for viable transit. Suburbs dont stand a chance. When most of your land is housing and there are relatively few jobs and those that do exist are spread out and/or in industrial wasteland, it just doesnt work.

I can walk to a TTC bus stop in two minutes, about the same time it takes to get the car out of the garage, and it still doesn't work for me.

 

[nobbie48]

It's the style of housing we want (and most expect) in canada that is the problem. Single family homes every 30 to 100' means you need to walk a long way to a transit stop (or have really slow transit times with a ton of vehicles making lots of stops). If your personal car can get you to work in 45 minutes and transit costs not much less and takes two or three times as long, what sane person would take transit? You either need to dramatically speed up transit (not really possible from the suburbs) or make the vehicles too expensive to use to force people onto transit. Towers concentrate the riders so they can have a stop nearby where many people get on instead of stops with one or two riders far apart.

Re the style: The dream for most would be 4 bedroom, 2 car garage on a pool size lot. That used to be a 60 foot lot but more likely 40 foot now with a pig snout garage.

Of course all the rest of the houses should be comparable. There will be no corner stores. There will be a strip mall a fair drive away meaning everyone needs a car and that will pack the driveway and street. The garage is a storage room.

When I lived in Parkdale a half century ago there were small independent stores at half of the residential corners. With some hard work the shop could afford to buy the premises and not be at the mercy of a mall owner. It was a village in concept. The shops are almost all gone, converted to residences. Now it's called Roncesvalle Village but only a village by name. Latte anyone?

What if a new subdivision looked like something from Coronation Street?

 

[Wingboy]

A little article of interest written by a family member.

Highway 413 poses a serious threat to many of our most endangered species

There has not been a public assessment of the potential impacts on species at risk along the preferred route. Canada’s environment minister should ensure these threats are thoroughly evaluated by designating the project for a federal environmental assessment.

www.thestar.com

 

[Roadghost]

A little article of interest written by a family member.

Highway 413 poses a serious threat to many of our most endangered species

There has not been a public assessment of the potential impacts on species at risk along the preferred route. Canada’s environment minister should ensure these threats are thoroughly evaluated by designating the project for a federal environmental assessment.

www.thestar.com

Most of the species listed are not at risk at all. The Barn Sparrow for example is an invasive species. The highway isn't eliminating any wetlands, it is just running across them, and there's no way we'll let a Federal Liberal government do a political smear job pretending it's an environmental assessment. We go independent or it doesn't get done.

 

[Wingboy]

Most of the species listed are not at risk at all. The Barn Sparrow for example is an invasive species. The highway isn't eliminating any wetlands, it is just running across them, and there's no way we'll let a Federal Liberal government do a political smear job pretending it's an environmental assessment. We go independent or it doesn't get done.

I'm pretty sure Ryan Norris knows what he is talking about. He is a prof at U of G and chair of the Nature Conservancy of Canada. Your creds?

 

[Roadghost]

I'm pretty sure Ryan Norris knows what he is talking about. He is a prof at U of G and chair of the Nature Conservancy of Canada. Your creds?

I don't care what he is. The Barn Swallow is not endangered. It came from Europe.

Barn swallow - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Baggsy]

We have that here. I heard from someone who worked on it, that the government messed up the design the first time, so it all had to be ripped out and redone. Blandings turtle tunnels

 

[Wingboy]

‘Death by 1,000 cuts’: GTA West Highway exposes cataclysmic impact our addiction to urbanization has on wildlife

Construction of the highway will lead to extensive habitat destruction and proliferate the urban sprawl.

thepointer.com

 

[killvino]

‘Death by 1,000 cuts’: GTA West Highway exposes cataclysmic impact our addiction to urbanization has on wildlife

Construction of the highway will lead to extensive habitat destruction and proliferate the urban sprawl.

thepointer.com

Article says urbanization is inevitable and population is growing at an exponential pace but what's the solution? We still need to grow to provide housing and space for those that need it. I would say that a proper ecological assessment still has to occur and find the best way to minimize the damage done (whether this is providing wildlife passageways, etc.) example: Main road near me is being closed nightly in Apr to allow endangered salamanders to cross.
Unfortunately, ontarians and canadians don't dream of living in a downtown crowded city. Everyone wants a garage and their own space. Unless we limit immigration or the amount of offspring, this is going to continue to occur.
Also, a by-product of the protected green spaces is housing prices climbing the way they are.

 

[Wingboy]

A lot of our environment suffers. There isn't much anyone can do about it. My daughter works for a company that does environmental assessment as a biologist.
Thankfully we have organizations that care about places like the Bruce Trail and the escarpment.
I'm guessing your closed road is King Rd?
Daughter heads up the salamander research there. Her video.

 

[killvino]

A lot of our environment suffers. There isn't much anyone can do about it. My daughter works for a company that does environmental assessment as a biologist.
Thankfully we have organizations that care about places like the Bruce Trail and the escarpment.
I'm guessing your closed road is King Rd?
Daughter heads up the salamander research there. Her video.

Stouffville road. Just saw it on the news recently, gladly will detour for a good cause. But if that's their only environment, I don't foresee them lasting long.

 

[Wingboy]

Stouffville road. Just saw it on the news recently, gladly will detour for a good cause. But if that's their only environment, I don't foresee them lasting long.

They can be found in quite a few locations. She is trying to see if they will reproduce when relocated. Tracking them is cool. She implants tiny gps transmitters into them.

 

[killvino]

They can be found in quite a few locations. She is trying to see if they will reproduce when relocated. Tracking them is cool. She implants tiny gps transmitters into them.

neat, these transmitters must be ultra tiny but I am also guessing they don't travel very far.

 

[Wingboy]

A little smaller than a regular tylenol pill.Here's the kids watching Mom do one at work.And one under anesthetic with 6 sutures.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

A good chunk of the top of the escarpment between Burlington and Milton is marshland. Every spring the Conservation Authority puts up signs along the roads to let people know about the tortoises crossing them and how to deal with it (if you're so inclined). That's my commute, and I've stopped numerous times. It helps to know how to pick them up. They will try to take out your wrists with their rear claws. And always take them to the side of the road in the direction they're going.

 

[justride]

You would have to take hwy 407 get from Hwy. 413 to the 403 south bound? Double toll money!
413. 407 and 413 interchange is going to be crazy

btw. Any detailed maps available?

 

[GreyGhost]

You would have to take hwy 407 get from Hwy. 413 to the 403 south bound? Double toll money!
413. 407 and 413 interchange is going to be crazy

btw. Any detailed maps available?

There is a feasibility study or EIS that is publicly available. It has the proposed route on it. Last I looked there was no simple way to see it like a google maps overlay. The figure in the study doesn't have that many reference points so to see exactly where they are planning you need to make the overlay yourself.

 

[justride]

The proposed 413 highway would come with a steep environmental price, new report forecasts

Government officials have said the 413 would serve a growing population and relieve pressure on existing highways. The province’s environmental review will include an air quality and greenhouse gas assessment, a spokesperson said.

www.thestar.com

 

[GreyGhost]

Interesting. The feds have jumped in and taken control of the EA. That will add a lot more money to the dumpster fire. No idea what the result will be. Probably canned. Subdivisions are still coming, there will just be no good way for the people to travel from them.

Federal government to oversee Highway 413 environmental assessment

Highway 413 has drawn heavy criticism from environmental advocates who worry the nearly 60-kilometre road will drive up greenhouse gas emissions.

www.680news.com