My 42-Year-Old Friend Failed His M2 Exam

[amp3d]

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This is a very unique thread.

I'm in my mid-40's now, and I've been riding for an extended period of time, both on-road as well as offroad.

I have found that offroad people make the transition to street riding MUCH more quickly than the average person, and they usually excel in "emergency" type situations and are able to keep their composure better when needed (ie: slippery conditions, emergency braking etc)

That said, I've had the many opportunities to ride dirtbikes/motorcross with friends that started on the street first.
A few of them quickly sold their dirtbikes, some getting injured the first time out, others just finding it too difficult for them.
They were not able to manage the dirtbikes very well, even on what we would consider beginner terrain.

I find it very strange that the gentleman the OP speaks of struggled that much in a parking lot. Most of the M2 bikes are very beginner friendly with very linerar throttle response. Perhaps his dirtbike experience back home was not as good as he pretended it was.

JMO

 

[GreyGhost]

This is a very unique thread.

I'm in my mid-40's now, and I've been riding for an extended period of time, both on-road as well as offroad.

I have found that offroad people make the transition to street riding MUCH more quickly than the average person, and they usually excel in "emergency" type situations and are able to keep their composure better when needed (ie: slippery conditions, emergency braking etc)

That said, I've had the many opportunities to ride dirtbikes/motorcross with friends that started on the street first.
A few of them quickly sold their dirtbikes, some getting injured the first time out, others just finding it too difficult for them.
They were not able to manage the dirtbikes very well, even on what we would consider beginner terrain.

I find it very strange that the gentleman the OP speaks of struggled that much in a parking lot. Most of the M2 bikes are very beginner friendly with very linerar throttle response. Perhaps his dirtbike experience back home was not as good as he pretended it was.

JMO

Dirtbike experience on a 70 cc four stroke teaches you far less than a dirtbike with power. People often leave out the size of bike unless it was the biggest and baddest. I can say I have 100's of hours on a dirtbike and that is technically true but put me on a fast one and I would struggle as that's not what I have seat time on. That also means that much of the good and useful dirtbike lessons like sliding, I am lacking in.

 

[koFFey]

I don't know man, stopping from 60 km/h to zero with only 10 ft of space is something tricky.

one word. stoppie. let me demostrate with visuals. good thing you grease them axle sticks really good.

Dirtbike experience on a 70 cc four stroke teaches you far less than a dirtbike with power. People often leave out the size of bike unless it was the biggest and baddest. I can say I have 100's of hours on a dirtbike and that is technically true but put me on a fast one and I would struggle as that's not what I have seat time on. That also means that much of the good and useful dirtbike lessons like sliding, I am lacking in.

My '86 yz80 was a terror when the power band kicked in. Learned very quickly on that bike.

 

[amp3d]

Dirtbike experience on a 70 cc four stroke teaches you far less than a dirtbike with power. People often leave out the size of bike unless it was the biggest and baddest. I can say I have 100's of hours on a dirtbike and that is technically true but put me on a fast one and I would struggle as that's not what I have seat time on. That also means that much of the good and useful dirtbike lessons like sliding, I am lacking in.

Imagine if the M2 courses were on loose gravel, and they gave everyone a dirtbike to learn on?
The failure rate would be unusually high, but you can be pretty sure when someone passed the test that they will be pretty confident and be able to handle most situations the street will throw at them

(Within reason of course...I'm not really talking about someone on a 125cc dirtbike jumping on a supersport and filtering traffic lol. I more or less am implying most dirtbike users should be comfortable enough to do daily commutes to work etc)

One of the BIGGEST skills you'll ever learn on a dirtbike is how braking during a corner affects your bike. Learn it on gravel or sand, and you'll never forget it on the road! The CC of your bike makes very little difference here

 

[Baggsy]

They used to teach the course here in an underground parking garage here, along with concrete floors and support pillars. There were places you might have to duck especially when doing the teeter totter.

Not sure we're ever going back to that. The current thought seems to be to have an environment where people can learn safely. Most of the curriculum is designed to have students going zero kph or close to it when they could make a mistake, and have adequate runout to allow for them.

Much emphasis is on being able to accelerate and decelerate on pavement while holding a line and maintaining control, as well as tight slow speed maneuvers.

You're taught how to Uturn on the course. If you see a dirt or gravel road ahead, you know how to avoid it.

 

[GreyGhost]

They used to teach the course here in an underground parking garage here, along with concrete floors and support pillars. There were places you might have to duck especially when doing the teeter totter.

Not sure we're ever going back to that. The current thought seems to be to have an environment where people can learn safely. Most of the curriculum is designed to have students going zero kph or close to it when they could make a mistake, and have adequate runout to allow for them.

Much emphasis is on being able to accelerate and decelerate on pavement while holding a line and maintaining control, as well as tight slow speed maneuvers.

You're taught how to Uturn on the course. If you see a dirt or gravel road ahead, you know how to avoid it.

How sterile are the environments? Are instructors sweeping/blowing the parking lot? Are cones setup to avoid obvious deposits on the asphalt?

 

[Evoex]

How sterile are the environments? Are instructors sweeping/blowing the parking lot? Are cones setup to avoid obvious deposits on the asphalt?

when i teach, yes.

 

[Baggsy]

How sterile are the environments? Are instructors sweeping/blowing the parking lot? Are cones setup to avoid obvious deposits on the asphalt?

About as sterile as the local roads. Sweepers are sent through more often than on the roads, but there's rain and a gravel driveway nearby.
The four lots are huge. You can park over 500 cars on one of them. I wouldn't want to be in Evoex's shoes trying to sweep that. I make sure that the areas where people are expected to stop are clear. There are no obvious deposits on the asphalt as of yet. There are several 30' lampposts with concrete bases, which are pretty obvious, and a fairly aggressive drainage system with the accompanying sewer grates, and slopes. There's some good in that in that the riders learn to adjust the clutch throttle and rear brake while turning circles. What I'd really like would be a nice hill to do hill start on. That would be really good lesson for new riders.

 

[Pegassus]

I went to watch my brother do his course in Kitchener, I’ve been licensed forever . Motorcycles are not for everyone, and reliving your youth but buying a 600lb cruiser take more skill than many appreciate.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

I saw some riders there, especially this woman, that I hope didn't pass the exam, you will be signing their death certificates, awful slow and inexperienced bike riders. People don't think outside the box. Go ride a dirtbike in the trails before you go to a motorcycle exam course, some of these people have never touched a bike and they expect to pass?

 

[Pegassus]

During my M1X exam, we were at the very last course of the exam.

I think it was the right hand sweeper with the complete stop at the end.

Dude rides through the sweeper no problem. Comes up to the complete stop, endos, lands the rear wheel, drops the bike, falls down, instructors standing around him making sure he is ok. He is completely fine physically. lies on his back for another good 5min completely still. Automatic fail.

everyone felt for that guy.

NOT me. If you are not good at something you should not be allowed to operate it. For example at my workplace there's this older guy who is our new bobcat operator, I just cringe to see this dummy operating that bobcat, told my supervisor to send him to pack boxes and look for another operator. What kind of union sends us this amateur to run our machines? How in hell did they passed him? Who certified him?

 

[Pegassus]

About as sterile as the local roads. Sweepers are sent through more often than on the roads, but there's rain and a gravel driveway nearby.
The four lots are huge. You can park over 500 cars on one of them. I wouldn't want to be in Evoex's shoes trying to sweep that. I make sure that the areas where people are expected to stop are clear. There are no obvious deposits on the asphalt as of yet. There are several 30' lampposts with concrete bases, which are pretty obvious, and a fairly aggressive drainage system with the accompanying sewer grates, and slopes. There's some good in that in that the riders learn to adjust the clutch throttle and rear brake while turning circles. What I'd really like would be a nice hill to do hill start on. That would be really good lesson for new riders.

This is wrong. Sweeping and cleaning before the exam? Why the hell are you trying to prevent them from experiencing REAL road conditions? I think these motorcycle training courses are too soft and sterilized.

 

[Evoex]

NOT me. If you are not good at something you should not be allowed to operate it. For example at my workplace there's this older guy who is our new bobcat operator, I just cringe to see this dummy operating that bobcat, told my supervisor to send him to pack boxes and look for another operator. What kind of union sends us this amateur to run our machines? How in hell did they passed him? Who certified him?

‘Union’

 

[Evoex]

This is wrong. Sweeping and cleaning before the exam? Why the hell are you trying to prevent them from experiencing REAL road conditions? I think these motorcycle training courses are too soft and sterilized.

A parking lot is about as far from real world conditions as a baseline. Let’s dump sand and debris, hire a few construction guys and have a few bystanders scream at you to emulate other drivers.

Love it.

 

[Scuba Steve]

NOT me. If you are not good at something you should not be allowed to operate it. For example at my workplace there's this older guy who is our new bobcat operator, I just cringe to see this dummy operating that bobcat, told my supervisor to send him to pack boxes and look for another operator. What kind of union sends us this amateur to run our machines? How in hell did they passed him? Who certified him?

Is he running into the back of other equipment when it is stopped?

Sent from the future

 

[BigEvilDoer]

This is wrong. Sweeping and cleaning before the exam? Why the hell are you trying to prevent them from experiencing REAL road conditions? I think these motorcycle training courses are too soft and sterilized.

When was the last time you sterilized your axel sticks before reapplying the grease?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

When was the last time you sterilized your axel sticks before reapplying the grease?

Synthetic grease is impervious to cooties.

 

[OntFF]

I saw some riders there, especially this woman, that I hope didn't pass the exam, you will be signing their death certificates, awful slow and inexperienced bike riders. People don't think outside the box. Go ride a dirtbike in the trails before you go to a motorcycle exam course, some of these people have never touched a bike and they expect to pass?

While I agree there are a lot of people that try for a license that shouldn't have one... slow riders generally don't rear-end multiple cars ahead of them.

 

[Baggsy]

A parking lot is about as far from real world conditions as a baseline. Let’s dump sand and debris, hire a few construction guys and have a few bystanders scream at you to emulate other drivers.

Love it.

Lesson 8, page 42 is the reference. If you have them, and it's allowed, you can use them.

I love to have a good hill in the parking lot.

 

[Evoex]

Lesson 8, page 42 is the reference. If you have them, and it's allowed, you can use them.

I love to have a good hill in the parking lot.

For what slow clutch rear brake?

Certainly a real world application, but I can teach them just as easily on a nice flat chunk of asphalt.

 

[Baggsy]

For what slow clutch rear brake?

Certainly a real world application, but I can teach them just as easily on a nice flat chunk of asphalt.

That would be 6, so no. Here's the excerpt, not to say that we do this now, but we have in some places.

"Alternative Surfaces
If at all possible, it is advantageous to allow the students to experience some simulated real-world situations. Riding on grass, dirt or gravel where available (and allowed) is encouraged if it can be done safely.

Potholes and Road Imperfections
Potholes and road imperfections can be included to impart reality to the exercise. Demonstrate to the students how bare(sic) their weight on the foot pegs at the same time as elevating their body slightly from the seat.
Be generous with your "thumbs up" and your smiles.

Start from a Stop on a Hill . . . "

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