More small cc options....

Forum Sponsor
xrljoel said:
Yeah, it's debatable.
There's a sizable portion of the younger demographic that are interested in motorcycles for whom HD is nothing but a target of ridicule and derision. They view them as nothing more than overpriced props used in one cosplay or another, whether it's Sons of Anarchy outlaws or old rich guys hanging onto some route 66 open road fantasy, they just aren't interested in being associated with it and are actually repelled by the brand itself.
Click to expand...

Maybe in the city, but in the rural areas, cruisers, especially Harleys, are still king chit. Here in the Valley, it's about 50% cruisers and the rest dirt, street and sport.

A lot of new riders in our school have huge Harleys waiting for them in the garage after they pass their M2 course. I know for sure that half of them will not be able to handle a Road King as a first bike, but it's an aspirational thing, even with the younger crowd.

They're the ones that will still be paddle-paddle-paddling their way around a parking lot and sticking both feet out when they approach every stop light years from now.

Worse still are the wives of Harley riders taking the intro course, because they also have either a Sporty 1200 or Fat Boy waiting for them in their garage.

The issue for most of them is that they never wanted to start on such a big bike. It's the husband that bought it for them. They basically pushed the wife off the pillion seat (where they were perfectly happy to stay) and into the M2 course, just so they could have an excuse to ride solo *and* have a second Harley in the garage that they could ride themselves.

"Kawasaki Eliminator?!? No wife of mine is gonna ride a 250cc Jap cruiser! She needs a 1850cc 900lb American Iron behemoth so that she won't grow out of it after the first season!"

Your wife is 5'2" and 110 lbs. You really mean *YOU* don't want to ride a Kawasaki Eliminator.

Some men can be such jerks.

After the course, these women have a million questions about the Virago 250 or Honda Rebel 250 that we teach on. "I wish I had this in the garage vs the Harley Road Barge that my husband bought me..."

This HD 440 would be a great starter bike for new riders, especially more tentative ones that need the reassurance of a lighter bike and a tamer throttle to make their learning curve a lot less steep. AND it makes the first rung on the Harley ladder a lot more accessible.
 
Lightcycle said:
Maybe in the city, but in the rural areas, cruisers, especially Harleys, are still king chit. Here in the Valley, it's about 50% cruisers and the rest dirt, street and sport.

A lot of new riders in our school have huge Harleys waiting for them in the garage after they pass their M2 course. I know for sure that half of them will not be able to handle a Road King as a first bike, but it's an aspirational thing, even with the younger crowd.

They're the ones that will still be paddle-paddle-paddling their way around a parking lot and sticking both feet out when they approach every stop light years from now.

Worse still are the wives of Harley riders taking the intro course, because they also have either a Sporty 1200 or Fat Boy waiting for them in their garage.

The issue for most of them is that they never wanted to start on such a big bike. It's the husband that bought it for them. They basically pushed the wife off the pillion seat (where they were perfectly happy to stay) and into the M2 course, just so they could have an excuse to ride solo *and* have a second Harley in the garage that they could ride themselves.

"Kawasaki Eliminator?!? No wife of mine is gonna ride a 250cc Jap cruiser! She needs a 1850cc 900lb American Iron behemoth so that she won't grow out of it after the first season!"

Your wife is 5'2" and 110 lbs. You really mean *YOU* don't want to ride a Kawasaki Eliminator.

Some men can be such jerks.

After the course, these women have a million questions about the Virago 250 or Honda Rebel 250 that we teach on. "I wish I had this in the garage vs the Harley Road Barge that my husband bought me..."

This HD 440 would be a great starter bike for new riders, especially more tentative ones that need the reassurance of a lighter bike and a tamer throttle to make their learning curve a lot less steep. AND it makes the first rung on the Harley ladder a lot more accessible.
Click to expand...
Yikes!

Your observations make me wonder how much and how long the 110lb pound wife will ride, and what's her bro hubby going to say when she inevitably drops the barge onto it's side, hopefully at a stop instead of a curve with unexpected sand?

I also have my doubts that bro would embrace buying a "foreign" made bike, even with Harley on the tank. If they're not even buying the Indian Scout with the ridiculously low seat height what chance does does the 5'2" 110lb wife have on the bloat-king in the garage?

Your observations support a statistic I heard on an episode of The Lowdown podcast with Neil Graham. Someone noted that the MAJORITY of motorcycle owners in the US (and by extension Canada) ride their bike less than 1000 miles per year and take it out about 5 times. I guess that's the market HD has, and continues to cultivate.
 
xrljoel said:
Yikes!

Your observations make me wonder how much and how long the 110lb pound wife will ride, and what's her bro hubby going to say when she inevitably drops the barge onto it's side, hopefully at a stop instead of a curve with unexpected sand?

I also have my doubts that bro would embrace buying a "foreign" made bike, even with Harley on the tank. If they're not even buying the Indian Scout with the ridiculously low seat height what chance does does the 5'2" 110lb wife have on the bloat-king in the garage?

Your observations support a statistic I heard on an episode of The Lowdown podcast with Neil Graham. Someone noted that the MAJORITY of motorcycle owners in the US (and by extension Canada) ride their bike less than 1000 miles per year and take it out about 5 times. I guess that's the market HD has, and continues to cultivate.
Click to expand...
I always worry about the wife wobbling along behind her husband on her HD. I see so many every summer that are clearly pushing their limits just trying to survive a sedate cruise and stopping at lights without dumping it. Most are definite lemmings and blindly following the husband without paying attention to the world (and traffic) around them.

I suspect it's a combination of the wrong attitude (primary motivation is either riding with their husband or telling people they have a HD) and starting on a bike that is way too big for their ability and strength. If they spent time and miles on a smaller bike, strength matters much less as ability deals with the weight. At less than 1000 miles per year, nobody is learning much. Each ride is a refresher course to try to get you back to newbie ability.

Spyder seems to be taking up a lot of this market now. I think they're dumb but it's a much safer option for someone that doesn't want to put in the time to learn how to ride.
 
GreyGhost said:
I always worry about the wife wobbling along behind her husband on her HD. I see so many every summer that are clearly pushing their limits just trying to survive a sedate cruise and stopping at lights without dumping it. Most are definite lemmings and blindly following the husband without paying attention to the world (and traffic) around them.

I suspect it's a combination of the wrong attitude (primary motivation is either riding with their husband or telling people they have a HD) and starting on a bike that is way too big for their ability and strength. If they spent time and miles on a smaller bike, strength matters much less as ability deals with the weight. At less than 1000 miles per year, nobody is learning much. Each ride is a refresher course to try to get you back to newbie ability.

Spyder seems to be taking up a lot of this market now. I think they're dumb but it's a much safer option for someone that doesn't want to put in the time to learn how to ride.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%.

I almost killed a woman last year going to the cottage via country roads. I was driving 90-100kph on an empty road and saw two bikes come toward the intersection and stop (I had right of way). Husband takes off and uses his 1800cc power to power away from me, meanwhile his wife/gf/partner gunned it...only to stall half way through the intersection as I was 100m away or so.

Hammered on the brakes and she fired it up and was able to get out of the way, but I stopped about 10-15m shy of where she was stalled.

Ridiculously unsafe, and thankfully I didn't hit her. But more importantly I had my dashcam recording because I can almost see the fight ahead of me.

Which reminds me, need to reinstall the camera in the Mav.
 
GreyGhost said:
I always worry about the wife wobbling along behind her husband on her HD. I see so many every summer that are clearly pushing their limits just trying to survive a sedate cruise and stopping at lights without dumping it. Most are definite lemmings and blindly following the husband without paying attention to the world (and traffic) around them.

I suspect it's a combination of the wrong attitude (primary motivation is either riding with their husband or telling people they have a HD) and starting on a bike that is way too big for their ability and strength. If they spent time and miles on a smaller bike, strength matters much less as ability deals with the weight. At less than 1000 miles per year, nobody is learning much. Each ride is a refresher course to try to get you back to newbie ability.

Spyder seems to be taking up a lot of this market now. I think they're dumb but it's a much safer option for someone that doesn't want to put in the time to learn how to ride.
Click to expand...
My motto is "you never have to wait for someone riding pillion"

And yes I lots of women riding the spidey bike.
 
xrljoel said:
Your observations make me wonder how much and how long the 110lb pound wife will ride, and what's her bro hubby going to say when she inevitably drops the barge onto it's side, hopefully at a stop instead of a curve with unexpected sand?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the answer is: not very long.

We characterize our students on a matrix of attitude and aptitude.

High aptitude and enthusiastic students are the most fun to teach. They are highly motivated, eager to learn and often I find myself teaching them advanced skills before we put them through the M1X test.

The reluctant wives of the HarleyHusband are diametrically opposite - low aptitude, low motivation students. They aren't really interested in riding their own motorcycle and don't want to be at the course at all. They're only there because their husbands don't want them on the back of the bike anymore.

These women are highly aware of their own limitations and are often very tentative and slow to learn. In many cases, HarleyHusband has tried to teach his wife to ride on his own. But after countless hours of yelling and berating her because she can't seem to manage the clutch on his Road King, he exasperatedly turns to professional instruction as a last resort.

But that doesn't stop him from standing at the edge of the parking lot during the course, continuing to yell at his wife, all the while shaking his head and commenting out loud about how bad the instructors are and how he could totally ride circles around them...

Because only sissies use the rear brakes at slow speed for control.
Because everyone knows you only use the rear brake stopping from high speeds because you'll *TOTALLY* go over the handlebars if you touch the front brake.
Because the front brake is strictly for use while puttering around at slow speeds, because that frees up both your feet to drag along the asphalt because your bike will *ALWAYS* tip over at anything less than 10 km/h.

So the wife ends up barely passing the M1X on a Honda Grom. Then she has to hop straight onto the FatBoy that HarleyHusband bought for himse... I mean her. All she wants to do is spend time with her husband, but he booted her off the back of the bike and now he has a reason to ride solo: "You have your license already, hun! Just ride your own bike from now on!"

She can't handle the big bike. She also can't ride on the back of his bike anymore and just stops having anything to do with motorcycles.

Meanwhile HarleyHusband gets to ride solo with his fellow HarleyBros without having to drag the Old Lady out on the back. *And* he has two kick-ass Harleys in the garage.

Win-Win for the HarleyHusband. :rolleyes:

I detest HarleyHusbands.

xrljoel said:
I also have my doubts that bro would embrace buying a "foreign" made bike, even with Harley on the tank. If they're not even buying the Indian Scout with the ridiculously low seat height what chance does does the 5'2" 110lb wife have on the bloat-king in the garage?
Click to expand...

100%

HarleyHusband is the kind of Harley guy who would totally view the Indian-parts 440 as "Not a Real Harley".
 
Lightcycle said:
Yeah, the answer is: not very long.

We characterize our students on a matrix of attitude and aptitude.

High aptitude and enthusiastic students are the most fun to teach. They are highly motivated, eager to learn and often I find myself teaching them advanced skills before we put them through the M1X test.

The reluctant wives of the HarleyHusband are diametrically opposite - low aptitude, low motivation students. They aren't really interested in riding their own motorcycle and don't want to be at the course at all. They're only there because their husbands don't want them on the back of the bike anymore.

These women are highly aware of their own limitations and are often very tentative and slow to learn. In many cases, HarleyHusband has tried to teach his wife to ride on his own. But after countless hours of yelling and berating her because she can't seem to manage the clutch on his Road King, he exasperatedly turns to professional instruction as a last resort.

But that doesn't stop him from standing at the edge of the parking lot during the course, continuing to yell at his wife, all the while shaking his head and commenting out loud about how bad the instructors are and how he could totally ride circles around them...

Because only sissies use the rear brakes at slow speed for control.
Because everyone knows you only use the rear brake slowing down from high speeds because you'll *TOTALLY* go over the handlebars if you touch the front brake.
Because the front brake is strictly for use while puttering around at slow speeds, because that frees up both your feet to drag along the asphalt because your bike will *ALWAYS* tip over at anything less than 10 km/h.

So the wife ends up barely passing the M1X on a Honda Grom. Then she has to hop straight onto the FatBoy that HarleyHusband bought for himse... I mean her. All she wants to do is spend time with her husband, but he booted her off the back of the bike and now he has a reason to ride solo: "You have your license already, hun! Just ride your own bike from now on!"

She can't handle the big bike. She also can't ride on the back of his bike anymore and just stops having anything to do with motorcycles.

Meanwhile HarleyHusband gets to ride solo with his fellow HarleyBros without having to drag the Old Lady out on the back. *And* he has two kick-ass Harleys in the garage.

Win-Win for the HarleyHusband. :rolleyes:

I detest HarleyHusbands.



100%

HarleyHusband is the kind of Harley guy who would totally view the Indian-parts 440 as "Not a Real Harley".
Click to expand...
Oh my god, that picture you painted is alarming. To say the least.

I always thought (hoped?) the, "don't touch the front brake" mindset was just an exaggeration.
 
Lightcycle said:
You'll find the "Don't touch the front brake" guys also belong to the same club as the "Had to lay'er down" guys...
Click to expand...
I’ve done group rides with guys scared of their front brakes.

There’s a reason I prefer to be at the rear of the group. And it’s not because I’m always the slowest in every ride.
 
Lightcycle said:
But that doesn't stop him from standing at the edge of the parking lot during the course, continuing to yell at his wife, all the while shaking his head and commenting out loud about how bad the instructors are and how he could totally ride circles around them...
Click to expand...
Those people are asked to leave, and then told to leave. 19+ other students paid a lot of money to not be distracted. They didn't pay to be in the background of Days Of Our Lives.
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom