More small cc options....

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xrljoel said:
Yeah, it's debatable.
There's a sizable portion of the younger demographic that are interested in motorcycles for whom HD is nothing but a target of ridicule and derision. They view them as nothing more than overpriced props used in one cosplay or another, whether it's Sons of Anarchy outlaws or old rich guys hanging onto some route 66 open road fantasy, they just aren't interested in being associated with it and are actually repelled by the brand itself.
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Maybe in the city, but in the rural areas, cruisers, especially Harleys, are still king chit. Here in the Valley, it's about 50% cruisers and the rest dirt, street and sport.

A lot of new riders in our school have huge Harleys waiting for them in the garage after they pass their M2 course. I know for sure that half of them will not be able to handle a Road King as a first bike, but it's an aspirational thing, even with the younger crowd.

They're the ones that will still be paddle-paddle-paddling their way around a parking lot and sticking both feet out when they approach every stop light years from now.

Worse still are the wives of Harley riders taking the intro course, because they also have either a Sporty 1200 or Fat Boy waiting for them in their garage.

The issue for most of them is that they never wanted to start on such a big bike. It's the husband that bought it for them. They basically pushed the wife off the pillion seat (where they were perfectly happy to stay) and into the M2 course, just so they could have an excuse to ride solo *and* have a second Harley in the garage that they could ride themselves.

"Kawasaki Eliminator?!? No wife of mine is gonna ride a 250cc Jap cruiser! She needs a 1850cc 900lb American Iron behemoth so that she won't grow out of it after the first season!"

Your wife is 5'2" and 110 lbs. You really mean *YOU* don't want to ride a Kawasaki Eliminator.

Some men can be such jerks.

After the course, these women have a million questions about the Virago 250 or Honda Rebel 250 that we teach on. "I wish I had this in the garage vs the Harley Road Barge that my husband bought me..."

This HD 440 would be a great starter bike for new riders, especially more tentative ones that need the reassurance of a lighter bike and a tamer throttle to make their learning curve a lot less steep. AND it makes the first rung on the Harley ladder a lot more accessible.
 
Lightcycle said:
Maybe in the city, but in the rural areas, cruisers, especially Harleys, are still king chit. Here in the Valley, it's about 50% cruisers and the rest dirt, street and sport.

A lot of new riders in our school have huge Harleys waiting for them in the garage after they pass their M2 course. I know for sure that half of them will not be able to handle a Road King as a first bike, but it's an aspirational thing, even with the younger crowd.

They're the ones that will still be paddle-paddle-paddling their way around a parking lot and sticking both feet out when they approach every stop light years from now.

Worse still are the wives of Harley riders taking the intro course, because they also have either a Sporty 1200 or Fat Boy waiting for them in their garage.

The issue for most of them is that they never wanted to start on such a big bike. It's the husband that bought it for them. They basically pushed the wife off the pillion seat (where they were perfectly happy to stay) and into the M2 course, just so they could have an excuse to ride solo *and* have a second Harley in the garage that they could ride themselves.

"Kawasaki Eliminator?!? No wife of mine is gonna ride a 250cc Jap cruiser! She needs a 1850cc 900lb American Iron behemoth so that she won't grow out of it after the first season!"

Your wife is 5'2" and 110 lbs. You really mean *YOU* don't want to ride a Kawasaki Eliminator.

Some men can be such jerks.

After the course, these women have a million questions about the Virago 250 or Honda Rebel 250 that we teach on. "I wish I had this in the garage vs the Harley Road Barge that my husband bought me..."

This HD 440 would be a great starter bike for new riders, especially more tentative ones that need the reassurance of a lighter bike and a tamer throttle to make their learning curve a lot less steep. AND it makes the first rung on the Harley ladder a lot more accessible.
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Yikes!

Your observations make me wonder how much and how long the 110lb pound wife will ride, and what's her bro hubby going to say when she inevitably drops the barge onto it's side, hopefully at a stop instead of a curve with unexpected sand?

I also have my doubts that bro would embrace buying a "foreign" made bike, even with Harley on the tank. If they're not even buying the Indian Scout with the ridiculously low seat height what chance does does the 5'2" 110lb wife have on the bloat-king in the garage?

Your observations support a statistic I heard on an episode of The Lowdown podcast with Neil Graham. Someone noted that the MAJORITY of motorcycle owners in the US (and by extension Canada) ride their bike less than 1000 miles per year and take it out about 5 times. I guess that's the market HD has, and continues to cultivate.
 
xrljoel said:
Yikes!

Your observations make me wonder how much and how long the 110lb pound wife will ride, and what's her bro hubby going to say when she inevitably drops the barge onto it's side, hopefully at a stop instead of a curve with unexpected sand?

I also have my doubts that bro would embrace buying a "foreign" made bike, even with Harley on the tank. If they're not even buying the Indian Scout with the ridiculously low seat height what chance does does the 5'2" 110lb wife have on the bloat-king in the garage?

Your observations support a statistic I heard on an episode of The Lowdown podcast with Neil Graham. Someone noted that the MAJORITY of motorcycle owners in the US (and by extension Canada) ride their bike less than 1000 miles per year and take it out about 5 times. I guess that's the market HD has, and continues to cultivate.
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I always worry about the wife wobbling along behind her husband on her HD. I see so many every summer that are clearly pushing their limits just trying to survive a sedate cruise and stopping at lights without dumping it. Most are definite lemmings and blindly following the husband without paying attention to the world (and traffic) around them.

I suspect it's a combination of the wrong attitude (primary motivation is either riding with their husband or telling people they have a HD) and starting on a bike that is way too big for their ability and strength. If they spent time and miles on a smaller bike, strength matters much less as ability deals with the weight. At less than 1000 miles per year, nobody is learning much. Each ride is a refresher course to try to get you back to newbie ability.

Spyder seems to be taking up a lot of this market now. I think they're dumb but it's a much safer option for someone that doesn't want to put in the time to learn how to ride.
 
GreyGhost said:
I always worry about the wife wobbling along behind her husband on her HD. I see so many every summer that are clearly pushing their limits just trying to survive a sedate cruise and stopping at lights without dumping it. Most are definite lemmings and blindly following the husband without paying attention to the world (and traffic) around them.

I suspect it's a combination of the wrong attitude (primary motivation is either riding with their husband or telling people they have a HD) and starting on a bike that is way too big for their ability and strength. If they spent time and miles on a smaller bike, strength matters much less as ability deals with the weight. At less than 1000 miles per year, nobody is learning much. Each ride is a refresher course to try to get you back to newbie ability.

Spyder seems to be taking up a lot of this market now. I think they're dumb but it's a much safer option for someone that doesn't want to put in the time to learn how to ride.
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I agree 100%.

I almost killed a woman last year going to the cottage via country roads. I was driving 90-100kph on an empty road and saw two bikes come toward the intersection and stop (I had right of way). Husband takes off and uses his 1800cc power to power away from me, meanwhile his wife/gf/partner gunned it...only to stall half way through the intersection as I was 100m away or so.

Hammered on the brakes and she fired it up and was able to get out of the way, but I stopped about 10-15m shy of where she was stalled.

Ridiculously unsafe, and thankfully I didn't hit her. But more importantly I had my dashcam recording because I can almost see the fight ahead of me.

Which reminds me, need to reinstall the camera in the Mav.
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