Midwinter Blues 2, 2020 - Has anyone been saved by loud pipes? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Midwinter Blues 2, 2020 - Has anyone been saved by loud pipes?

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
I know which way this discussion will go, But for those willing to listen to a valid argument on the topic, take a few to read this entire response.

truckblindspots.jpg

I drive one of these for a living, and have done so for over 25 years now.

Since I know we are all perfect pro riders around here who would never knowingly put themselves in a risky situation while on 2 wheels, I'm sure nobody here would ever consider riding in one of those blind spots where guys like me in the drivers seat can easily miss you when you're on a diminutive vehicle the size of a motorcycle.

But let me tell you from experience, that present company aside of course, there are lots of stupid people on our roads, including many on 2 wheels.

They DO ride in the blind spots of vehicles. Not just guys like me with LOTS of blind spots, but cars, pickup trucks, busses, garbage trucks, U-Hauls, etc etc etc. And they have NO idea they're doing something stupid.

Even when people KNOW about blind spots and knowingly try to avoid them, there are going to be situations we are all inevitably as part of sharing the roads with other vehicles where we are going to end up in them anyways whether we like it or not. All we can do at that point is try to minimize the risk and get ourselves out of the situation as soon as physically possible.

Now, to continue....we all have 5 senses. Vision, hearing, smell, touch, and taste.

When a small vehicle disappears into one of those blind spots because they don't know they shouldn't be there, vision becomes useless. We can't smell, touch, or taste that vehicle either. Well, hopefully.

But hey, we might be able to HEAR it.

Draw your own conclusions from that point forward.

I have personally witnessed far too many near misses in my 25+ years plodding up and down the roads across North America for work. Thankfully never a death, but several that came close enough I nearly crapped my pants. Are they all the fault of the other vehicles for not being able to physically avoid something they had no idea was there? Or were they the fault of the smaller vehicle unknowingly or stupidly sitting in a spot where surrounding traffic simply had no idea they were there? Regardless of who's at fault, the rider is likely going to be dead.

And before anyone jumps on me for advocating straight pipes or whatnot, I'm NO fan of that level of obnoxiousness. I went to great lengths with my last bike to undo the stupid straight pipe setup that was on it from the last owner. My new bike may require the same when I pick it up in a few weeks as I wasn't yet able to discern what level of noise the aftermarket exhaust is going to make at speed.

But do I advocate for silence either? Absolutely not. To remove a simple yet very effective aid using one of our 5 senses that can contribute towards potentially saving the life of someone on 2 wheels is not a valid argument made without prejudice. Whatever the fault in the end, be it the fault of their own stupidity, be it the fault of the other vehicle just not looking in their mirrors hard or long enough, or be it the fault of "a series of unfortunate events", in the end, the motorcyclist is still going to end up being the dead or maimed person when it's all said and done.

The very reason there is a horn on motorcycles is to act as an aid to aid the sense of hearing of other vehicles around us when needed. Tastefully audible pipes on a motorcycle do the same, but without the need in a potentially panic situation to reach for and press that button. Again, based on 25+ years on the roads in a big truck watching all sorts of close calls unfold around me (because we can see a lot more than most people can given the height we sit at), it's been my observation that the last thing people really think about when things are going all to hell in a handbasket and their life is in imminent risk...is honking their horn.

Would you rather not just be heard a little and maybe avoid all this to begin with?
 

cycling

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Jesus saves.





second string goalie for a South American soccer team.
An ex friend of mine said the same "Jesus saves fallen women" She did not like my reply one bit. I said. "He Didn`t save one for me"
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Motorcycles saved my life.......from boredom and the mundane.

Straight pipes and poorly tuned machines are annoying.

But, I do enjoy the mechanical sound of various machines of 2 wheels and 4 wheels as well as snow machines and water craft etc.

I’m very aware that my tastes are not universal and appreciate the need for regulation because of jackolopes that think hitting the limiter is entertaining.

I wish other noise emitters like jake braking dump trucks and other commercial vehicles had better noise regulation as they seem to be prevalent and everywhere.

I know the smell of combustion engines isn’t good for you but, it improves my life in many ways.


Sorry, what was the question? My hearing has been going as I get older. Why would that be?

Too many rock concerts without ear protection, too many trips to the drag strip, race track etc. Yes, self imposed and much different when trying to enjoy bbq in the back yard or having a bevie at the local watering hole patio.

I know it’s wrong but, I still get a kick out of the 2nd to 3rd shift through the Welland tunnel.

It saves my life every time. Lol




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Chris-CJ

Well-known member
I know which way this discussion will go, But for those willing to listen to a valid argument on the topic, take a few to read this entire response.

View attachment 41817

I drive one of these for a living, and have done so for over 25 years now.

Since I know we are all perfect pro riders around here who would never knowingly put themselves in a risky situation while on 2 wheels, I'm sure nobody here would ever consider riding in one of those blind spots where guys like me in the drivers seat can easily miss you when you're on a diminutive vehicle the size of a motorcycle.

But let me tell you from experience, that present company aside of course, there are lots of stupid people on our roads, including many on 2 wheels.

They DO ride in the blind spots of vehicles. Not just guys like me with LOTS of blind spots, but cars, pickup trucks, busses, garbage trucks, U-Hauls, etc etc etc. And they have NO idea they're doing something stupid.

Even when people KNOW about blind spots and knowingly try to avoid them, there are going to be situations we are all inevitably as part of sharing the roads with other vehicles where we are going to end up in them anyways whether we like it or not. All we can do at that point is try to minimize the risk and get ourselves out of the situation as soon as physically possible.

Now, to continue....we all have 5 senses. Vision, hearing, smell, touch, and taste.

When a small vehicle disappears into one of those blind spots because they don't know they shouldn't be there, vision becomes useless. We can't smell, touch, or taste that vehicle either. Well, hopefully.

But hey, we might be able to HEAR it.

Draw your own conclusions from that point forward.

I have personally witnessed far too many near misses in my 25+ years plodding up and down the roads across North America for work. Thankfully never a death, but several that came close enough I nearly crapped my pants. Are they all the fault of the other vehicles for not being able to physically avoid something they had no idea was there? Or were they the fault of the smaller vehicle unknowingly or stupidly sitting in a spot where surrounding traffic simply had no idea they were there? Regardless of who's at fault, the rider is likely going to be dead.

And before anyone jumps on me for advocating straight pipes or whatnot, I'm NO fan of that level of obnoxiousness. I went to great lengths with my last bike to undo the stupid straight pipe setup that was on it from the last owner. My new bike may require the same when I pick it up in a few weeks as I wasn't yet able to discern what level of noise the aftermarket exhaust is going to make at speed.

But do I advocate for silence either? Absolutely not. To remove a simple yet very effective aid using one of our 5 senses that can contribute towards potentially saving the life of someone on 2 wheels is not a valid argument made without prejudice. Whatever the fault in the end, be it the fault of their own stupidity, be it the fault of the other vehicle just not looking in their mirrors hard or long enough, or be it the fault of "a series of unfortunate events", in the end, the motorcyclist is still going to end up being the dead or maimed person when it's all said and done.

The very reason there is a horn on motorcycles is to act as an aid to aid the sense of hearing of other vehicles around us when needed. Tastefully audible pipes on a motorcycle do the same, but without the need in a potentially panic situation to reach for and press that button. Again, based on 25+ years on the roads in a big truck watching all sorts of close calls unfold around me (because we can see a lot more than most people can given the height we sit at), it's been my observation that the last thing people really think about when things are going all to hell in a handbasket and their life is in imminent risk...is honking their horn.

Would you rather not just be heard a little and maybe avoid all this to begin with?
A masterful dissertation and much that I agree with.
However "noise" can be a blessing or a curse.
Currently, I am in a country where leaning on the horn button is second nature and the sound pollution is awful and the thing is that nobody gives a rat's ass to the sound of a vehicle's horn.

"four wheels good, two wheels better"
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
The very reason there is a horn on motorcycles is to act as an aid to aid the sense of hearing of other vehicles around us when needed. Tastefully audible pipes on a motorcycle do the same, but without the need in a potentially panic situation to reach for and press that button.
Yes, but people don't ride around with their horn button duct-taped in the on position the entire time they're riding.

Why? Because it's annoying to everyone else around them *NOT* trying to kill them, like pedestrians, people trying to have a quiet breakfast in their house or sleeping...

Loud Pipes Save Lives is just another way of saying I'm More Important Than You, And Your Needs Don't Matter As Much As Mine.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Yes, but people don't ride around with their horn button duct-taped in the on position the entire time they're riding.
False equivalency argument. One consists of ambient noise, the same as any vehicle with an internal combustion engine generates. How much is the only difference. Your brain recognizes it as "something is there", and when driving, "something is there I should probably not run over". This is a proactive observation.

The other is a device designed intentionally, at frequencies designed to attract attention and pierce over and above ambient noise levels, to generate awareness. Your brain is taught to recognize this differently and act upon it in a reactive fashion.

Proactive means a situation potentially never occurs to begin with. Reactive means that the situation is likely already occurring and someone is trying to avoid it. Again, assuming they even reached for that horn button and are not already in the process of becoming a meat crayon.

Doesn't change the facts that something you can hear is easier to avoid versus something that you can't. On a busy street somewhere if a bicycle comes coasting down the street behind you as you're (theoretically for the purpose of the discussion) walking down the shoulder compared to a car or a motorcycle, which one are you most likely to avoid if your senses tell you they're on a potential collision course with you?
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Personally I don't mind the sound of a bike providing it's ridden like it should be. I've said this before, I live on the corner of a small crescent street, about 40 homes. 6 of us ride bikes, one of which has a Road Glide. He is a novice rider, most of his miles are riding the 1/2km circle around our street and running to the local donut shop 1km down the road. Peace to that, I don't care why anyone owns a MC, just that it brings a smile to their face and that does it for him.

What drives me CRAZY is that he clutches and throttle blips when he rolls the hog around the corner in front of my house. I get 2 or 3 full unbaffled blip-blasts a few times a day and quite frankly it's annoying as hell. Ironically he was knocked off his straight piped Honda Shadow in the same donut shop parking lot a few years ago.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
False equivalency argument.
That's a matter of opinion.

The other is a device designed intentionally, at frequencies designed to attract attention and pierce over and above ambient noise levels, to generate awareness.
See, to me, this is a perfect description of Loud Pipes. They're piercing, designed to attract attention and decibels above every other ambient road noise.

But if you're already in the Loud Pipes club, then I can see how you're more likely to hand-wave it off.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
What drives me CRAZY is that he clutches and throttle blips when he rolls the hog around the corner in front of my house. I get 2 or 3 full unbaffled blip-blasts a few times a day and quite frankly it's annoying as hell. Ironically he was knocked off his straight piped Honda Shadow in the same donut shop parking lot a few years ago.
As I've said many times, I've no patience for obnoxious exhaust systems either. I gave the finger to someone on a straight piped bike last year in downtown Bowmanville because it was literally ear piercing as the retard behind the handlebars intentionally goosed it at WOT down the main street between the buildings. It litereally hurt my ears.

Those people are ********.

But you don't need that level of noise to have others become aware of your presence, which is my point. A tasteful exhaust which makes you audible above the fray helps reduce the chance of a rider becoming "invisible" to all 5 senses.

My point is any vehicle which is nearly silent (as many motorcycles are when mixed in with ambient noise when equipped with stock pipes, particularly low cc or touring/cruiser motorcycles) loses the "something is there, I probably shouldn't run over it" proactive avoidance I wrote about in my last response.

The ultimate problem here is everyone equates the "loud pipes save lives" straight pipe crowd to the guys like me who just like to have a bike that doesn't sound like a single sewing machine, either. There IS an in between that has all the benefits without the downsides of everyone within a quarter mile radius think you're a jerkoff.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
guys like me who just like to have a bike that doesn't sound like a single sewing machine, either.
This is closer to the truth than anything else.

I've run race pipes on my sportbike. I know they're probably annoying to everyone else, but I like the sound of them. And I don't try to pretend I put them on to save my life.

I did it for the increase in horsepower[/LiesWeTellOurselves]
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
This is closer to the truth than anything else.

I've run race pipes on my sportbike. I know they're probably annoying to everyone else, but I like the sound of them. And I don't try to pretend I put them on to save my life.

I did it for the increase in horsepower[/LiesWeTellOurselves]
I used to run motogp shorties on my Hayabusa, it sounded great! I could however ride through a subdivision without irritating my neighbours. It was loud at WOT or when running above 8000 RPM. I used to see a local squid along my way to work a few times a week, he likes to ride his 600rr along hwy 7 in 1st gear at at 80, then hammering to 100kmh, back to 80 then back to 100 just to make racetrack noise.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
I used to run motogp shorties on my Hayabusa, it sounded great! I could however ride through a subdivision without irritating my neighbours. It was loud at WOT or when running above 8000 RPM.
Yep, the Termis only go to 11 at higher RPM.

And then there's this:

harley.jpg

Why, HarleyGuy?

Why?
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
And I don't try to pretend I put them on to save my life.
Would you feel confident saying that in no uncertain terms, ever, that a vehicle hearing you before potentially seeing you may have been beneficial to your safety?

This it the crux of the argument I'm trying to make.

Yes, I like the sound of a tastefully rumbly v-twin as well. But I also like not becoming a meat crayon if some day, through no fault of my own, I end up in a situation where someone doesn't see me.

Again, I'm NOT defending nor condoning the asshat straight pipe/rev bomb crowd.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
Would you feel confident saying that in no uncertain terms, ever, that a vehicle hearing you before potentially seeing you may have been beneficial to your safety?
Yes.

If my pipes were aimed forward, instead of backwards.

In all my time driving a cage, I've always seen motorcyclists before I've heard them. It's very rare to have a bike sit in your blind spot. Almost all the time, they're zipping past you and the fact that the pipes are aimed backwards means you'll be seeing them before hearing them.

So to advocate having Loud Pipes for the relatively small use case of a bike sitting in a blind spot is a poor justification for them having anything to do with Saving Lives.

Perhaps educating the idiots who do sit in blind spots not to do so would alleviate them of the notion that they have to annoy the rest of the world.

Again, it's that self-importance and entitlement.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
I mentioned this subject to my daughter's boyfriend who is a university professor. His response...... Show me the data. How many lives are saved?
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
I mentioned this subject to my daughter's boyfriend who is a university professor. His response...... Show me the data. How many lives are saved?
Well, at railway crossings in which the sounding of train horns was eliminated to appease people who were upset with the noise, studies showed that accidents went up almost 70%.


So yeah, being heard matters no matter how you interpret that study.

But lets split hairs on what noisemaker is the bestest.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Did you ever have one of those loud pipe V-twins pull in front of you and then roll on the throttle to accelerate away like you are standing still?
.... I never have, but I might drop back to get away from all the racket :LOL:
 

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