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Looking for advice

The way my clutch was slipping in the last round, I didn't need any fancy ramp clutch. Had one anyways, but I'm just sayin' This year I'm going to put a spare clutch pack in my carry kit... :/ Anyway... yeah, don't blip. I don't think I've had a bike in 10+ years that didn't either have a slipper or some other way to limit back torque (the Tuono holds one exhaust valve slightly open on decel, MV was doing the same thing years ago, too).

The next big step forward is computer-controlled torque limiting. My new RSV4 has settings for the amount of back torque (I think possibly it's not alone) and in "race" mode it has virtually none, it's almost like riding a two-stroke. Good for corner entry in most applications but it takes acclimation.
 
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Shaman said:
The way my clutch was slipping in the last round, I didn't need any fancy ramp clutch. Had one anyways, but I'm just sayin' This year I'm going to put a spare clutch pack in my carry kit... :/ Anyway... yeah, don't blip. I don't think I've had a bike in 10+ years that didn't either have a slipper or some other way to limit back torque (the Tuono holds one exhaust valve slightly open on decel, MV was doing the same thing years ago, too).

The next big step forward is computer-controlled torque limiting. My new RSV4 has settings for the amount of back torque (I think possibly it's not alone) and in "race" mode it has virtually none, it's almost like riding a two-stroke. Good for corner entry in most applications but it takes acclimation.
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Are you sure it's not an engine braking setting your talking about? I can't see how they have an electronic adjustment for a slipper clutch and holding the throttle bodies open is to decrease engine braking. When you go from 6th-4th or 5th-3rd even with no engine braking you'll still lock the rear tire or engage the slipper.
 
dricked said:
Are you sure it's not an engine braking setting your talking about? I can't see how they have an electronic adjustment for a slipper clutch and holding the throttle bodies open is to decrease engine braking. When you go from 6th-4th or 5th-3rd even with no engine braking you'll still lock the rear tire or engage the slipper.
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That's exactly what I mean, but it's kind of a less complicated way of saying it, I suppose. Both techniques are employed in Aprilia's implementation, as you point out you're going to potentially lose an engine if you over-rev it too much. Manufacturers have been doing some of this for a while, but new bikes are allowing the rider to adjust the amount of "engine braking".
 
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doozerdave said:
If you're on the brakes there's zero throttle, except when blipping the throttle for down shifts. Depending on the corner I get the throttle rolling back on before apex, but very slightly just to stabilise the bike. I wouldn't worry about that much right now. Focus on your entry speed senses.
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dricked said:
Depends on the corner and how comfortable you are with trail braking. Sometimes you brake all the way to the apex or just before and then on the gas. Sometimes your at neutral throttle (not accelerating/not slowing) for a second before you hit the apex. Far too many variables to give a proper answer. You'd have to ask at what specific corner and then riding styles, bike, ability come into play.
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dricked said:
Stop blipping and use the slipper. It took me a few rounds to really get used to it and it makes a big difference when you can concentrate fully on brake pressure and modulating it. Also backing it in is way cooler :)

I've been blipping since I was 10 so if I can stop after 21 years anyone can.
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doozerdave said:
I don't blip anymore on my ZX6R. I did for the first season on it, but I don't now. Nam's Ninja 300 should have a slipper clutch too. I test rode one a Mosport RDT and it seemed like a very loose slipper compared to my ZX6R. I'm not even convinced my bike has one... haha...

So yeah, Nam, dricked is right, you don't need to bother blipping on your 300. I guess it's a dying art.
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I don't blip the throttle because I have slipper clutch.

I have been practicing trail braking with neutral throttle to the apex, it is pretty hard and it is contributing to my problems with my lines as well.

Derrick, do you brake real late and trail brake/neutral throttle to the apex or just brake only?

I really notice the suspension disrupting the stability of bike when braking and when going from no throttle to throttling on after apex. But that is expected with crappy stock suspension I guess, at least now I know why suspension is so important.
 
smudger said:
Hey 'Nam,
Don't want to hijack your thread but what did you think of the FAST school?
I'm thinking of doing them in 2016, only done the Intro to Track day at TMP so far, not sure whether to go for the Racer 5 schools or FAST.
My concern with Racer 5 is the room on the 125 bikes & my very dodgy old knees making it hard for me to be able to move around on the smaller bikes thats why I was thinking of FAST & then riding my own bike.

Smudger
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I was there with you for the Intro to Track day, I was the one that lowsided my wife's CBR125. ?

I would do FAST over Racer5 because you have your own bike and you are larger. The CBR125 will not fit you.

Intro to Track doesn't really teach you much, the FAST course is a whole day and the coaches watch you in a specific corner each session and critique you on what you need to correct.
 
Supernam said:
I don't blip the throttle because I have slipper clutch.

I have been practicing trail braking with neutral throttle to the apex, it is pretty hard and it is contributing to my problems with my lines as well.

Derrick, do you brake real late and trail brake/neutral throttle to the apex or just brake only?

I really notice the suspension disrupting the stability of bike when braking and when going from no throttle to throttling on after apex. But that is expected with crappy stock suspension I guess, at least now I know why suspension is so important.
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It sounds like you're trying to do two things at once and those two things aren't normally done together. Someone else posted that if you're on the brakes you're off the gas which is correct (it can be done and is done but that will come later).

As I said it really depends on the corner, rider, setup. For now I would focus on getting the bike slowed to your comfortable cornering speed and go through the corner neutral throttle until you are ready to stand the bike up and apply the gas. It will help you get used to carrying corner speed and that's very important on a smaller bike. Once you get that down then it comes to trail braking deeper and deeper and transitioning to the gas earlier and earlier. It's hard to explain because it's somthing I just do. Take small steps and when it's a safe corner (back straight at Shannonville) push your brake marker back further and further as well as braking less and less. You'll find your comfortable speed and maybe just a bit above it and when you go that 1/10th of a step outside your comfort zone you make progression without the big crash, hopefully.

Don't hesitate to go talk to people especially when you start racing and ask "how do you do this corner?" It's important to ask people on the same bike too because I'm going to do things differently on a 1000 compared to even a 600.
 
Supernam said:
I was there with you for the Intro to Track day, I was the one that lowsided my wife's CBR125. ��

I would do FAST over Racer5 because you have your own bike and you are larger. The CBR125 will not fit you.

Intro to Track doesn't really teach you much, the FAST course is a whole day and the coaches watch you in a specific corner each session and critique you on what you need to correct.
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Yea, I thought that was you mate :)
Sounds like you've moved forward nicely from that day - whereas I've moved forward a little more sedately ha ha.
I know I need to improve in all areas but my corner entry speed is, in my opinion, my biggest weakness.
The FAST school sounds good, as soon as they have dates up on the website I'll get myself booked in.
 
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dricked said:
It sounds like you're trying to do two things at once and those two things aren't normally done together. Someone else posted that if you're on the brakes you're off the gas which is correct (it can be done and is done but that will come later).

As I said it really depends on the corner, rider, setup. For now I would focus on getting the bike slowed to your comfortable cornering speed and go through the corner neutral throttle until you are ready to stand the bike up and apply the gas. It will help you get used to carrying corner speed and that's very important on a smaller bike. Once you get that down then it comes to trail braking deeper and deeper and transitioning to the gas earlier and earlier. It's hard to explain because it's somthing I just do. Take small steps and when it's a safe corner (back straight at Shannonville) push your brake marker back further and further as well as braking less and less. You'll find your comfortable speed and maybe just a bit above it and when you go that 1/10th of a step outside your comfort zone you make progression without the big crash, hopefully.

Don't hesitate to go talk to people especially when you start racing and ask "how do you do this corner?" It's important to ask people on the same bike too because I'm going to do things differently on a 1000 compared to even a 600.
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You guys are right, I've been doing it all wrong. I thought trail braking was apply the front brake to load the front WHILE applying neutral throttle. That's why it was so hard.

I am able to lightly apply front brake during a turn to the apex then throttling on after apex no problem which is what I should be doing.
 
smudger said:
Yea, I thought that was you mate :)
Sounds like you've moved forward nicely from that day - whereas I've moved forward a little more sedately ha ha.
I know I need to improve in all areas but my corner entry speed is, in my opinion, my biggest weakness.
The FAST school sounds good, as soon as they have dates up on the website I'll get myself booked in.
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I am a pretty confident/competive/fearless/stupid person which I think you have to be in order to excel at any type of sport. My bike is a lot easier to ride than yours also.
 
smudger said:
Yea, I thought that was you mate :)
Sounds like you've moved forward nicely from that day - whereas I've moved forward a little more sedately ha ha.
I know I need to improve in all areas but my corner entry speed is, in my opinion, my biggest weakness.
The FAST school sounds good, as soon as they have dates up on the website I'll get myself booked in.
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For me corner entrance is the difference from a track day to race pace. At race pace I'm braking in most corners till the apex. Trackday not so much. Lowside at a trackday sucks. Lowside racing is just part of getting faster.
 
gsxr guy said:
For me corner entrance is the difference from a track day to race pace. At race pace I'm braking in most corners till the apex. Trackday not so much. Lowside at a trackday sucks. Lowside racing is just part of getting faster.
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Unless you're in the lead and you throw it away. Mike Head and I both managed it in the same race. Mike outdid me, though... lowsided, then highsided and supermanned into the front wall. Actually reminds me, I should see how he's doing now. All healed up, I would think.
 
gsxr guy said:
For me corner entrance is the difference from a track day to race pace. At race pace I'm braking in most corners till the apex. Trackday not so much. Lowside at a trackday sucks. Lowside racing is just part of getting faster.
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Shaman said:
Unless you're in the lead and you throw it away. Mike Head and I both managed it in the same race. Mike outdid me, though... lowsided, then highsided and supermanned into the front wall. Actually reminds me, I should see how he's doing now. All healed up, I would think.
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Lowsiding isn't a big deal to me, I've already done it but not at high speed. I don't want to know what highsiding feels like.
 
So as of right now, my focus will be body position 1st because that will affect everything that relates to cornering.

2nd, I will focus on braking markers, entry speed, neutral throttle, hitting the apex and throttling out.

3rd, I will trail brake into the apex and throttle out.

Does that sound right?

I am going to do Shannonville only, like Dricked.
 
Honestly, I'd say don't even think about trail braking. Focus on your entry speed and lines. Try different tracks so you can really tune in your speed sense. As you get more track riding experience you will one day realise that you are trail braking. You will learn to do it without even thinking about it.
 
doozerdave said:
Honestly, I'd say don't even think about trail braking. Focus on your entry speed and lines. Try different tracks so you can really tune in your speed sense. As you get more track riding experience you will one day realise that you are trail braking. You will learn to do it without even thinking about it.
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Trail braking doesn't affect my corner speed right? It only allows me to brake later, which would benefit actual racing correct?
 
Supernam said:
Trail braking doesn't affect my corner speed right? It only allows me to brake later, which would benefit actual racing correct?
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It does affect your speed as you would be able to enter the corner faster at initial turn-in, but still braking into the turn to hit your proper line. It's important for racing, yes. Most people think they need to trail brake like crazy to get better lap times, but have faster corner entry and better lean angles makes up a lot more time than trail braking.
 
Supernam said:
Trail braking doesn't affect my corner speed right? It only allows me to brake later, which would benefit actual racing correct?
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Supernam, to put it into perspective, SMP Pro on a 250, you have 2 braking corners. The rest of the corners are managed with gear selection, neutral throttle, or holding it open.

You will start outbraking yourself on a low cc bike until you start braking less and just riding it thru the corner.
 
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