Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.5%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.5%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 56 50.0%
  • Total voters
    112
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Any bail hearing I've been to all the surety need to do is convince the court that they "could" cover the bail "if" they had to.
Its an illusionary system...
Often sureties are/become victims when the person they signed for breaches their conditions... How can you expect grandma to enforce anything the courts direct?
 
Gaoler said:
Any bail hearing I've been to all the surety need to do is convince the court that they "could" cover the bail "if" they had to.
Its an illusionary system...
Often sureties are/become victims when the person they signed for breaches their conditions... How can you expect grandma to enforce anything the courts direct?
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Then drop the charade. If you don't expect the sureties to enforce nor hold them to account if they don't, just put them back on the street with the personal conditions and tell the public their isn't enough space. Like many things in the justice system, the surety just sounds like a waste of time and money with minimal benefit other than courts can pretend that they are making a difference and holding alleged criminals to account.
 
Gaoler said:
Here's the thing...
The courts grant bail because generally the rule is to impose the least odious restrictions on people and.... there isn't anywhere to hold them..
Population levels at all jails are way over capacity.
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True that but if a condition of their release is house arrest isn't society in general better off it they abide by the rules that they promised to?
 
GreyGhost said:
As a minimum, if the surety isn't doing the job they signed up for, they should lose the security. If the courts have no appetite to seize $50k, they should be setting bail at a level they are willing to seize. Seizing zero out of 50K is much less effective than seizing all of $500.
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In most of these cases there is no set monetary penalty involved the surety is pledging to keep a leash on the accused as in have them follow their release conditions and appear in court when commanded.
Bail isn't that common most are released on own recognizance with conditions.
 
Gaoler said:
Here's the thing...
The courts grant bail because generally the rule is to impose the least odious restrictions on people and.... there isn't anywhere to hold them..
Population levels at all jails are way over capacity.
Click to expand...
The basic question is "Why do we have so much crime?"

There's a common scenario where a few thugs start a brawl and while law enforcement is busy and spectators entertained the real crime is a bullion hoist somewhere else. Follow the money.

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but it wouldn't take a lot to make me change my mind.
 
Gaoler said:
As to over capacity in our jails...
There are so many mentally ill people in custody for petty stuff... They shouldn't really be in jail. They belong in hospital/mental health facilities.
Of course there aren't enough resources in that department either.
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We just had someone else, who was on bail but had been threatening his victim, kill her a couple of miles from my house at the place where I get my groceries, it would seem. People who can't keep to conditions need to be locked up and we need to fund the system to the extent that it can do so. Our system is pretty damned good, but this is where a relatively small number of offenders make it look far worse than it is.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
We just had someone else, who was on bail but had been threatening his victim, kill her a couple of miles from my house at the place where I get my groceries, it would seem. People who can't keep to conditions need to be locked up and we need to fund the system to the extent that it can do so. Our system is pretty damned good, but this is where a relatively small number of offenders make it look far worse than it is.
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Like drug users, there are a few frequent flyers (a few percent of the total criminal/homeless population) that make up a very high percentage of issues. That few percent needs to be re-streamed to stop the reign of terror.

While I don't disagree that many are mental health issues at the core, long ago we essentially lost the ability to appropriately control uncontrolled mental health issues. Our choices are jail or in public. If you try to contain them in a mental health facility, they often improve as they do not have access to illegal drugs, they take their prescriptions and they have constant therapy. Sadly, our system then argues that they should no longer be contained and it is normally days after release that they are back into bad situations. Lather, rinse and repeat. No positive long-term solution for the offender nor the public.
 
GreyGhost said:
Like drug users, there are a few frequent flyers (a few percent of the total criminal/homeless population) that make up a very high percentage of issues. That few percent needs to be re-streamed to stop the reign of terror.

While I don't disagree that many are mental health issues at the core, long ago we essentially lost the ability to appropriately control uncontrolled mental health issues. Our choices are jail or in public. If you try to contain them in a mental health facility, they often improve as they do not have access to illegal drugs, they take their prescriptions and they have constant therapy. Sadly, our system then argues that they should no longer be contained and it is normally days after release that they are back into bad situations. Lather, rinse and repeat. No positive long-term solution for the offender nor the public.
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This is what the incredibly poorly named "Defund the Police" movement is about. It's not about just taking money away from police departments, but rather diverting funds that are currently being used so that they can do jobs that they are neither equipped nor trained for, and giving those tasks to professionals who are specifically so equipped. If you have case a case worker making sure that a schizophrenic is taking their meds then you don't need to have police dealing with them, nor jails warehousing them.
 
All this said...
Rest assured, there are some truly evil MoFos that will NEVER see freedom again.
There have been so many over the years... Many of whom the public never really found out about...
For every Paul Bernardo there's three more just as evil who never got their name in the paper.
 
Superior Court Judge bashed peel police for illegal search, lying in court and more. Cops that had never worked together before testified they watched suspects for 45 minutes and then surveillance footage shows it was actually 5-10 seconds. Wtf. Police say they are looking into it. F that. This isn't misremembering, this is straight up lying under oath. They should all be fired and charged within a week. There is no defense. Losers. Unfortunately the fat blue line will once again do nothing.

 
GreyGhost said:
Superior Court Judge bashed peel police for illegal search, lying in court and more. Cops that had never worked together before testified they watched suspects for 45 minutes and then surveillance footage shows it was actually 5-10 seconds. Wtf. Police say they are looking into it. F that. This isn't misremembering, this is straight up lying under oath. They should all be fired and charged within a week. There is no defense. Losers. Unfortunately the fat blue line will once again do nothing.

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Police are expected to make fast decisions when they see crime. Maybe it's time the courts did the same with the police to exonerate the innocent and boot the guilty.
 
nobbie48 said:
Police are expected to make fast decisions when they see crime. Maybe it's time the courts did the same with the police to exonerate the innocent and boot the guilty.
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Court has serious trouble pressing charges. Afaik, I think judges are limited to admonishment and contempt. Anything beyond that gets referred to the process and the process is designed to appear like something is done while ensuring there are never significant consequences. In the system we have, maintaining the appearance of trust of the police is ten steps above ensuring that police are trustworthy.
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