Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[GreyGhost]

Those are pretty serious offences - 5 years in prison for the first, 2 years for the second. The blueliners normally take care of one another, this guy must have done something really bad to warrant being arrested by his own for actions on a closed range. Is he really the kind of cop we want patrolling the streets?

Anyway, another case where he gets sent home with full pay, probably take 2-3 years to get to trial - but what's another $300K to Ontario taxpayers plus another chunk of change to cover his legal fees?

Ontario is the only province that pays suspended police officers -- when will this end?

I always love this quote from a a few years ago by a Waterloo Regional Police officer who was suspended with pay for three years. He sent an email to the police thanking them for his continued salary while he sat at home, played golf, travelled and took a course to become a firefighter.

"I am very thankful and fortunate to have received such as a nice gift from WRPS over the last three years. You have opened up others doors for me and have paid me to sit back and watch. What a dream come true," Craig Markham wrote.

After 23 years on the force, he is never coming back. He will ride suspended with pay as long as possible and then retire prior to PSB verdict so that he doesn't have a PSB judgement against him. They should eliminate that loophole and allow PSB to dock the pension of those that offend (especially when on-duty).

 

[GreyGhost]

Not exactly the right thread. Not from Canada. Not motorcycle related. Facebook vid so not everyone can see it. But, holeo^*&^*&^ most exciting pit maneuver I have ever seen.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3231069383639987

 

[SVeezy]

Not exactly the right thread. Not from Canada. Not motorcycle related. Facebook vid so not everyone can see it. But, holeo^*&^*&^ most exciting pit maneuver I have ever seen.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3231069383639987

Wow, that went next level real quick lol


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

 

[GreyGhost]

Well, in that particular case, apparently the Deputy sheriffs boss watched the body cam video and then issued a statement that they stand by their deputy. If police departments want to stick with the story of only a few bad apples, when something goes wrong, they cannot blindly support the liar. By watching that video and then ignoring the contents and backing the officer, I think there needs to be a further purge of that department.

Haha, deputy douchbag has filed a motion to dismiss Ujiri's counterclaim. You wonder what his lawyer was thinking when he submitted the rant.

Sheriff deputy claims he offered 'gentle physical guidance' to Ujiri in altercation

Alan Strickland claims he did not shove Raptors President Masai Ujiri but instead, offered 'gentle physical guidance' during the well-known confrontation.

www.680news.com

" The filing describes his actions on the court as only offering quote “gentle physical guidance.”

He also says that Ujiri ignored orders to show his credentials – he then compared Ujiri to the terrorists who murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, and to the crazed fan who stabbed tennis player Monica Seles in 1993.

Alan Strickland asserts that Ujiri posed “the same threats” as these terrorists by ignoring commands to show his credentials."

 

[DownUnder]

Haha, deputy douchbag has filed a motion to dismiss Ujiri's counterclaim. You wonder what his lawyer was thinking when he submitted the rant.

Sheriff deputy claims he offered 'gentle physical guidance' to Ujiri in altercation

Alan Strickland claims he did not shove Raptors President Masai Ujiri but instead, offered 'gentle physical guidance' during the well-known confrontation.

www.680news.com

" The filing describes his actions on the court as only offering quote “gentle physical guidance.”

He also says that Ujiri ignored orders to show his credentials – he then compared Ujiri to the terrorists who murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, and to the crazed fan who stabbed tennis player Monica Seles in 1993.

Alan Strickland asserts that Ujiri posed “the same threats” as these terrorists by ignoring commands to show his credentials."

As funny as this whole situation is, the toronto guy could have avoided it all by just flashing his multipass. Can't expect local cops on security detail to know the name and face of every sport and teams managers and staff.

 

[GreyGhost]

As funny as this whole situation is, the toronto guy could have avoided it all by just flashing his multipass. Can't expect local cops on security detail to know the name and face of every sport and teams managers and staff.

Agree. Both sides had some part in the mess. Ujiri was reaching for his pass while walking but the pass was still inside his jacket and nobody could assess its validity.

The deputy trying to turn the mess into a retirement fund and the police force backing up the stupidity is where it all went wrong. He is still whining and very optimistically interpreting what the world has now seen on video. If he was truthful from the beginning instead of constantly updating his lies to try to get money, this would have been over long ago.

 

[GreyGhost]

TL: DR In the last decade, 66 TPS officers have appeared before the tribunal after a criminal conviction. 3 were fired. 63 forfeited some days of work or got a temporary demotion.

Disgusting as expected.

4.5% of Toronto Police officers fired after committing crimes over last 10 years

A recent report by the CBC states that when Toronto police officers are found guilty of crimes, few are actually fired for them.

www.680news.com

 

[DownUnder]

TL: DR In the last decade, 66 TPS officers have appeared before the tribunal after a criminal conviction. 3 were fired. 63 forfeited some days of work or got a temporary demotion.

Disgusting as expected.

4.5% of Toronto Police officers fired after committing crimes over last 10 years

A recent report by the CBC states that when Toronto police officers are found guilty of crimes, few are actually fired for them.

www.680news.com

A criminal conviction should be an automatic dismissal from the force period. What a joke the TPS is.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

The Drug Task Force is a gang in its own right, so......

 

[Hack]

A criminal conviction should be an automatic dismissal from the force period. What a joke the TPS is.

I suspect part of the unspoken justification for not firing is...

The incredible amount of money "invested" in each officer... They are exceedingly expensive to replace.
Unless you can poach staff from other services it'll cost huge to train up replacements... TPS get a lot, but finite spots at OPC so... A firing leaves a hole that they can't just fill easily.

As far as poaching goes... It happens, but usually in the opposite direction. Out and Away from the city.

 

[GreyGhost]

I suspect part of the unspoken justification for not firing is...

The incredible amount of money "invested" in each officer... They are exceedingly expensive to replace.
Unless you can poach staff from other services it'll cost huge to train up replacements... TPS get a lot, but finite spots at OPC so... A firing leaves a hole that they can't just fill easily.

As far as poaching goes... It happens, but usually in the opposite direction. Out and Away from the city.

I get it, but sunk cost fallacy also applies. If you have an officer that has a criminal conviction, your costs shouldn't matter. You wouldn't hire a new recruit with a criminal conviction, you can't keep an existing officer with a criminal conviction. If there are some criminal convictions that you can have while still being hired (I didn't think there were but I'm not certain), I am potentially ok with those items not requiring termination. Even if that's the case, I strongly suspect that they don't represent 63 out of 66 cases.

 

[DownUnder]

I suspect part of the unspoken justification for not firing is...

The incredible amount of money "invested" in each officer... They are exceedingly expensive to replace.
Unless you can poach staff from other services it'll cost huge to train up replacements... TPS get a lot, but finite spots at OPC so... A firing leaves a hole that they can't just fill easily.

As far as poaching goes... It happens, but usually in the opposite direction. Out and Away from the city.

I dont doubt it, though considering the crime rate in toronto is through the roof maybe the training money can be spent more wisely.

 

[Hack]

I get it, but sunk cost fallacy also applies. If you have an officer that has a criminal conviction, your costs shouldn't matter. You wouldn't hire a new recruit with a criminal conviction, you can't keep an existing officer with a criminal conviction. If there are some criminal convictions that you can have while still being hired (I didn't think there were but I'm not certain), I am potentially ok with those items not requiring termination. Even if that's the case, I strongly suspect that they don't represent 63 out of 66 cases.

The rub here is that we're talking about the police... One job where it's expected/implied those doing it are somewhat straight and honest...
Being convicted of a crime dulls ones shine in this regard.
Would we be so irate if we were talking about doctors, cab drivers or say... Roofers ;-)

Not to excuse all crimes committed by people who happen to be cops, but... I don't think many people realize how easy it is to run afoul of the law. I bet most of us break half a dozen laws before lunch most days.

Should a guy/gal in their 5th, 10th or 20th year as a cop lose their job over an off-duty impaired driving charge/conviction or maybe even a simple assault...?
I'm leaning towards no.
I mean people f*** up once in a while. I mean does the public know how many breaks actual criminals get ?

Now.... A police officer who uses their position criminally for personal gain... That's a different story. Fire that POS out of a cannon.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

The rub here is that we're talking about the police... One job where it's expected/implied those doing it are somewhat straight and honest...
Being convicted of a crime dulls ones shine in this regard.
Would we be so irate if we were talking about doctors, cab drivers or say... Roofers ;-)

Not to excuse all crimes committed by people who happen to be cops, but... I don't think many people realize how easy it is to run afoul of the law. I bet most of us break half a dozen laws before lunch most days.

Should a guy/gal in their 5th, 10th or 20th year as a cop lose their job over an off-duty impaired driving charge/conviction or maybe even a simple assault...?
I'm leaning towards no.
I mean people f*** up once in a while. I mean does the public know how many breaks actual criminals get ?

Now.... A police officer who uses their position criminally for personal gain... That's a different story. Fire that POS out of a cannon.

Traffic laws? Maybe. Criminal Code violations? You might be alone there.

 

[DownUnder]

Traffic laws? Maybe. Criminal Code violations? You might be alone there.

I think a person that doesnt have the judgement to avoid driving drunk, probably doesnt have the judgement needed to be a police officer with a loaded gun on his hip.

 

[GreyGhost]

I think a person that doesnt have the judgement to avoid driving drunk, probably doesnt have the judgement needed to be a police officer with a loaded gun on his hip.

Or one who gets convicted of a simple assault for beating his wife. Toss em, wrong attitude and they need to leave. We arent talking suspicion or charges here, this has gone through the process and by definition they are criminals.

If it happens while on the job, try really hard to claw back their pension (maybe they get their contributions back but lose the matching that happened?).

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I can't disagree with either of those sentiments.

 

[Mad Mike]

No criminal cops ...

If the force sees fit to keep them on payroll while the courts or their internal investigations play out that’s fine as long as they are working. If they are too sketchy to have at work, unpaid suspension.

Bad cops can usually get reemployed as security guards, maybe not with Brinks or Garda but there are lots of security firms that need staff.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

No criminal cops ...

If the force sees fit to keep them on payroll while the courts or their internal investigations play out that’s fine as long as they are working. If they are too sketchy to have at work, unpaid suspension.

Bad cops can usually get reemployed as security guards, maybe not with Brinks or Garda but there are lots of security firms that need staff.

I actually support the concept of keeping accused officers on the payroll. They're exposed to a far higher likelihood of being falsely accused so they should be able to keep being paid while waiting for trial.

A speedy trial.

With no unnecessary delays on the part of the defence.

Coming before the bench in no less than 2 years, which is reasonable for the Superior Courts.

And then, if found guilty of a crime deserving such, an immediate Police Board hearing followed by immediate termination.

No guilty officer should be able to drag out a trial until such time as he can retire, anyway, with full pension.

 

[GreyGhost]

I actually support the concept of keeping accused officers on the payroll. They're exposed to a far higher likelihood of being falsely accused so they should be able to keep being paid while waiting for trial.

A speedy trial.

With no unnecessary delays on the part of the defence.

Coming before the bench in no less than 2 years, which is reasonable for the Superior Courts.

And then, if found guilty of a crime deserving such, an immediate Police Board hearing followed by immediate termination.

No guilty officer should be able to drag out a trial until such time as he can retire, anyway, with full pension.

As much as I dislike paying them while awaiting trial (as the other side of the coin is they are more likely to be accused but i suspect less likely to be charged), I understand your point. I also think it is reasonable to claw back the wage they earned while awaiting trial if they are found guilty. If the are found not guilty, they get to keep the money and return to work.

I still think that psb tribunal should happen toot-suite and have the results sealed until after the trial to avoid influencing a criminal trial. That seems like a more elegant and efficient solution than delaying any internal investigation until after they have been convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. That is not the bar that should be used for employment where you carry a gun and enforce laws. Balance of probability as in civil matters is a much better bar for employment issues.