sorry to hear the bad news,thanks for posting as it allways reminds us about our skills or lack of.
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Laid her down :(
- Thread starter rustysoap
- Start date
kiwi
Well-known member
Glad you're ok. Sounds like the rear locked.. came round then maybe gripped again causing you to highside?
Yeah, I got caught on gravel and sandy roads when I first started riding again, so I went to Trail Tours and got some idea of how bikes react in dirt etc, I still take it easier on gravel and sand.
I assume you were rinding alone.
Yeah, I got caught on gravel and sandy roads when I first started riding again, so I went to Trail Tours and got some idea of how bikes react in dirt etc, I still take it easier on gravel and sand.
I assume you were rinding alone.
Or it got too far around and he let go of the rear.
I wouldn't ever say laid her down, as that sounds like a voluntary action, and possible careless charges.
Unless of course you're on the Gardiner heading for the railing.
Yup...
There is no one rule that covers all surfaces, conditions and camber.
But learning what to use when means using both all the time as appropriate.
Slow speed wipe outs using the front brake which then torques the rider over is very common....that's one place where the rear brake comes in as you ease off the front.
Fronts are your main stopper regardless of what you ride as all the physics show.
WIth ABS the risk of a front wheel wash out is much lower but on a slippery surface, perhaps off camber and downhill it can still happen.
Learning to control the rear brake instead of stabbing it takes practice and really both should be used together all the time even in slidy stuff tho you have to be careful with the front.
The rear will straighten the bike up but you can't just stab the thing.
Off road practice is THE best thing a rider can do.
From the description the front wheel washed out after the rear locked up. I'd bet it was off camber as well but definitely too much rear input.
Been there, done that off road and still hurts 18 months later...never touched the brakes. Just slightly downhill, very slippy surface, front wheel washed out...ouch.
If it had just been raining lightly floating oil at an intersection could easily be in play.
Get in the dirt....find out.....gently ....what your bike does on iffy surfaces and it will teach you brake modulation big time.
Glad you are okay.
2wheelwasp
Well-known member
My *** end came around on me when I was riding down a hill in the rain. It was a rubbery (well it's a word now) surface and as I down shifted my *** slowly started coming along side me. Scared the **** out of me. Pulled in the clutch and no problem. The road had so little friction that my tire wouldnt spin. And that was with a slipper clutch.
people have awesome riding skills on the Internet.
Chasem
Well-known member
This is wrong, and goes against the laws of physics (sports bikes are not different than cruisers). The reason we use the front brake is because as you start to brake, your weight shifts to the front of the bike, which:
* Compresses the front forks
* Increases tire contact patch
* Increases tire resistance
* Allows for much better control and stopping power
Primarily using the rear-brake is a disaster waiting to happen.
Yup, my first time in the rain I tried to stop from 30kmh in the same distance as if it were dry. Broke the tip of my clutch handle off, front and rear turn signals were hanging on by the wires. AND I scraped my elbow, by far the worst thing to happen..
That's exactly the same scenario here. Sun was back out but road was still wet, started braking at same distance I would in dry condition, and bam, down I went.
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motoride777
Well-known member
when you get another bike make sure it's got ABS. then you won't have to worry about braking in the wet.
Yea came out of it pretty decent. Starting to feel the soreness but it's not as bad as I thought it would be
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Look he screwed up, shouldn't be on the road. Unless the road is covered with oil this should not happen. Think about what you are telling this guy, he locked the rear brake clearly, release and magically the bike will straighten out and then apply both brakes. We don't know what kind of bike this was but I'll bet it was some kind of a Japanese copy of a Harley, with pretty good brakes, front and back. If he had hammered the front brakes and lost it he probably would have at least sprained his wrist when the bars ripped out of his hands as the front end went away. He clearly has no idea what he is doing so he will most likely end up as a statistic. In all fairness there is no substitute for experience and the dirt is where to get it. I was very lucky, I started motocross riding at 12, progressed ultimately riding "superbike" back when we raced 750f Hondas at Mosport, Shannonville etc. but if this is an example of the folks who are waving at me as I ride the "home" track, the Hockley road I'll stay home until these guys go back home. Just to set the record straight, I ride a FJR, Ducati< and a Harley XR1200 so I'm not discriminating against any particular type of bike just stupidity.
Whoa man, ease up on the statistic stuff. Yes I'm inexperienced, haven't even used up a full tank of gas on the bike. Have had it for 4 weeks, and probably put 170kms on it in that time span. You're right, there's no substitute for experience, but there's really only one way to get it, hands on. Up to this point, I've stayed off the highways, short trips after work or early weekend mornings, kept to side roads, and less than moderately travelled roads trying to get a feel for the bike itself, and once Ive reached a level of comfort, take it to the next step. This was due to inexperience, that's it.
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Boots
Well-known member
Wow Mr. Perfect by that logic we should have no one on the road. People make mistakes and learn. Relax. We learn through experience, we aren't typically given the best a priori skills to deal with certain situations. No need to sound like an elitist over something as silly as this.
Today I was cautioning my students not to use so much rear brake when stopping, as they were all heavy on the rear and skidding it in. I had a situation like this in mind when I told them to use more front and less rear.
Some will go on to learn the hard way by sliding out the rear and hopefully not dumping it, but a lot of folks learn through practice, repetition and by pushing the envelope, yet as of today, they were just getting started leaning the bikes, so they have no idea what the envelope even looks like.
FJRGeezer, I bet you dumped your bike many more times than this gentleman has, and you seem to have totally forgotten what it's like to experience it all for the very first time ever.
I tend to agree that it was indeed operator error, and my guess is too much rear brake, possibly while in mid corner.
I have a t-shirt that reads 'If you haven't crashed it's because you aren't going fast enough.'
Riding is a thrill, it takes skill, and some hard knocks.
While I've never binned it in the rain, I've had enough get offs to know that they hurt, tend to be expensive, and I shouldn't do that again. To my credit I've never crashed in exactly the same way twice, so I like to think that I learn from mistakes.
Anyhow, I hope I'm coming off as being supportive, and I'm also glad you shared your experience with others.
Rubber side down, shiny side up, makes me grin ear to ear.
Some will go on to learn the hard way by sliding out the rear and hopefully not dumping it, but a lot of folks learn through practice, repetition and by pushing the envelope, yet as of today, they were just getting started leaning the bikes, so they have no idea what the envelope even looks like.
FJRGeezer, I bet you dumped your bike many more times than this gentleman has, and you seem to have totally forgotten what it's like to experience it all for the very first time ever.
I tend to agree that it was indeed operator error, and my guess is too much rear brake, possibly while in mid corner.
I have a t-shirt that reads 'If you haven't crashed it's because you aren't going fast enough.'
Riding is a thrill, it takes skill, and some hard knocks.
While I've never binned it in the rain, I've had enough get offs to know that they hurt, tend to be expensive, and I shouldn't do that again. To my credit I've never crashed in exactly the same way twice, so I like to think that I learn from mistakes.
Anyhow, I hope I'm coming off as being supportive, and I'm also glad you shared your experience with others.
Rubber side down, shiny side up, makes me grin ear to ear.
Walms
Well-known member
I'm not an expert so take this with a grain of salt.
80% of your braking power comes from the front brake and 20% from the rear. Focusing on modulating both front and back brake simultaneously is pretty difficult, even for a good chunk of the experienced riders IMO
When I made the transition from riding dirt to street, a buddy told me to forget about the rear brake until the front brake was mastered. I now do about 95% of my braking without touching the rear brake unless I'm entering loose gravel too hot... It has served me well so far.
80% of your braking power comes from the front brake and 20% from the rear. Focusing on modulating both front and back brake simultaneously is pretty difficult, even for a good chunk of the experienced riders IMO
When I made the transition from riding dirt to street, a buddy told me to forget about the rear brake until the front brake was mastered. I now do about 95% of my braking without touching the rear brake unless I'm entering loose gravel too hot... It has served me well so far.
The cruiser culture often talks about rear brake braking and "laying her down" as a legitimate crash response. I've had lectures from many cruiser riders about the dangers of front brakes.
You really cannot argue with people who receive their only education by word of mouth from only other like - minded people.
You really cannot argue with people who receive their only education by word of mouth from only other like - minded people.
That's about right. Many sport riders think locking the rear is a proper panic stop. The utility of the rear brake depends on speed, riding position, bike type, luggage load, pillion, etc. Personally, I've never worn out a set of rear pads.
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