KTM sales surpasses Harley Davidson | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

KTM sales surpasses Harley Davidson

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Ownership? Which one owning whom? I think both of them are too big to be bought by the other. For publicly traded companies, shareholders need to be on board (typically by dangling money in front of them, I.e. the buying company pays a premium over the normal share price). I haven't dug into this to see if it is even conceivable.
It's unlikely the market would support KTM buying HD (David eating Goliath). While KTM is publicly traded they are controlled by a single shareholder, and a little under half is owned by Indian M manufacturer Bajaj. My guess is it would take a pretty big premium as the stock is currently taking a pounding.
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
With Bajaj having such a large stack in ktm... and Bajaj being as large as it is... It wouldn't be a David and Goliath scenario.
Both are large companies operating in different spaces.. and neither has anything to offer the other.
ktm and Harley doesn't make sense on any level.
... and the idea of selling ktm's through Harley dealerships.. is just... silly.

Harley's decline in sales is probably inline with the overall decline in motorcycle sales... can't be bothered to look too much into it.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
With Bajaj having such a large stack in ktm... and Bajaj being as large as it is... It wouldn't be a David and Goliath scenario.
Both are large companies operating in different spaces.. and neither has anything to offer the other.
ktm and Harley doesn't make sense on any level.
... and the idea of selling ktm's through Harley dealerships.. is just... silly.

Harley's decline in sales is probably inline with the overall decline in motorcycle sales... can't be bothered to look too much into it.
Bajaj stake is irrelevant, HD would not be acquiring any part of Bajaj.

The fact that they are operating in different spaces is the perfect reason for consolidating/merging -- no lost sales as they don't compete with each other. They get to leverage each other's distribution and production capabilities and they should be able to realize some operational efficiencies.

Kind of like BMW taking over Rover and Mini, Chrysler consolidating with Fiat. Probably better in the long term than Audi buying Ducati.
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Bajaj stake is irrelevant, HD would not be acquiring any part of Bajaj.

The fact that they are operating in different spaces is the perfect reason for consolidating/merging -- no lost sales as they don't compete with each other. They get to leverage each other's distribution and production capabilities and they should be able to realize some operational efficiencies.

Kind of like BMW taking over Rover and Mini, Chrysler consolidating with Fiat. Probably better in the long term than Audi buying Ducati.
Not when they own as much as they do... and are also one of ktm's largest manufacturing partners.
I would expect their agreement includes many clauses regarding the issuing of shares, sale of ktm and/or first rights, etc...
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Not when they own as much as they do... and are also one of ktm's largest manufacturing partners.
I would expect their agreement includes many clauses regarding the issuing of shares, sale of ktm and/or first rights, etc...
They are a public company, it doesn't appear that Bajaj has preferred stock -- they are probably at the whim of KTM when if comes to buyouts.

Anyway, the boat may have sailed on KTM -- HD just signed a big deal with Qianjiang Motorcycle one of Asia's largest motorcycle producers. Qianjiang makes 4x as many bikes as KTM, they are much better positioned to drive sales with the HD brand on small bikes in Asia.
 

bigpoppa

Well-known member
They are a public company, it doesn't appear that Bajaj has preferred stock -- they are probably at the whim of KTM when if comes to buyouts.

Anyway, the boat may have sailed on KTM -- HD just signed a big deal with Qianjiang Motorcycle one of Asia's largest motorcycle producers. Qianjiang makes 4x as many bikes as KTM, they are much better positioned to drive sales with the HD brand on small bikes in Asia.
This is bound to trigger the murica purists crowd
 

crankcall

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I'm not sure the purists care, the HD riders in my social circle buy very large , powerful bikes, made in the US and following the tried and true HD styling. They could care less what HD does in Asia.
 

BB722

Well-known member
"Still, by many measures KTM remains a bit player. Although last year it sold 261,000 bikes—35,000 more than Harley did—the American company generates three times KTM’s revenue of $1.75 billion, because most of its bikes are far more expensive."

Not even a Harley fan but these brands ain't even in the same league as Harley. How many bikes do they gotta sell to match 1 of Harleys big bikes?
Sales # alone don't mean much, especially in Asia where there's a huge population.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
I'm not sure the purists care, the HD riders in my social circle buy very large , powerful bikes, made in the US and following the tried and true HD styling. They could care less what HD does in Asia.
I agree, and HD needs to understand this. HD has some sales and marketing issues to straighten out in the USA/Canada.
  • MC buyers are more love/hate polarized than any other brand.
  • North American dealers hold HD hostage on product mix. They get fat enough selling and servicing big dollar hogs, they view the lower margin stuff as a nuisance. If there are no bikes on the floor, no reps trained to sell them, and no techs available to service them.... who would want to buy one?
  • Price. Their entry products compete with light/midweight japanese cruisers. There are incredibly average when it comes to style, performance, & build quality -- all they have is the cache vested in the HD brand. The HD brand has proven to have zero value anywhere except the heavy cruiser market and clothing, they cannot expect to collect a 20% premium over established competitors with stronger products.
  • Configurations. They need to dress more than black betties. Take a que from Honda and Kawi -- they make entry packages that can be configured for the cruiser, naked and ADV market with minor variations. Configure a Street 500/700 like a flat tracker with an orange/white/black scheme, price it like a CBX500 or Versys 650 and you might have a winner.
 

HarleyHare

Well-known member
How does an original comment about KTM sales being larger than H-D spin into a possibility of one buying the other? Looks like there are a lot of acquisition and merger specialists hiding in the closet for most of their lives. Ha!

Let's bait and switch to more off-topic unfounded speculation. Audi bought Ducati in 2012 and in 2017 was ready to sell it. But nothing has been heard since. I wonder if KTM would be interested?
 

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