KTM sales surpasses Harley Davidson | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

KTM sales surpasses Harley Davidson

Trials

Well-known member
H-D riders are the most likely not to wave back at you, unless you have an equivalent bike. And the fact that you think the guy that kicked your Honda over is dead, looks like you know way too much about that than you should. And they say H-D riders are bad-*ss!
No, no, you got it wrong, he was just way older, dude would need to live +100 :unsure: despite cigarettes beer and being tremendously over-weight.
 

DJM

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9 out of 10 Dentists recommend Harley...
 

crankcall

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Dentists love Harley guys, put three guys in the parking lot and you'd have a full set of teeth....
 

HarleyHare

Well-known member
No, no, you got it wrong, he was just way older, dude would need to live +100 :unsure: despite cigarettes beer and being tremendously over-weight.
I think you just nailed the reason H-D sales are dying. Their clientele define an old macho idealism, that we are hard core men and can live hard, ride hard and die hard. Trouble is they are only human and are dying of smoking, excessive beer and horrible physical condition. So they are dying hard. Talk about stereotyping it 100%. You should be a market consultant and make big bucks. Why don't H-D executives get this simple fact?
 

Trials

Well-known member
Ok, I give up, The idea that HD owners scorn other brands is a bit ridiculous.



and he was missing a bunch of teeth even though I never said that, somebody else did.
 

ReSTored

Well-known member
Dentists love Harley guys, put three guys in the parking lot and you'd have a full set of teeth....
Just 3 .................. I thought it would take 4 or 5 guys........ This is your typical GTA MC thread.............. Devolves to nothing
 

DJM

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Well on a side note if I ever downsize I'd like a KTM 390 with some side cases and Denali lights.
 

HarleyHare

Well-known member
Dentists love Harley guys, put three guys in the parking lot and you'd have a full set of teeth....
Or crossing the bridge from New Hampshire to Vermont ( a helmetless state) and seeing all the H-D riders with their helmets brazenly jammed into the top of their sissy-bars (in the spirit of "We don't need no stinkin' helmets"). After all, the Vermont state motto is "Live free, or die", and if you ride there long enough both wishes will come true.

Just 3 .................. I thought it would take 4 or 5 guys........ This is your typical GTA MC thread.............. Devolves to nothing
True. Give it more than 2 days and at least 10 new side-issues will be raised. So much fun to fill the air, when one could otherwise be out riding. Usually, I bow out of a "discussion" if older than 2 days, but am waiting for my new chain to arrive.
 

GreyGhost

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Or crossing the bridge from New Hampshire to Vermont ( a helmetless state) and seeing all the H-D riders with their helmets brazenly jammed into the top of their sissy-bars (in the spirit of "We don't need no stinkin' helmets"). After all, the Vermont state motto is "Live free, or die", and if you ride there long enough both wishes will come true.



True. Give it more than 2 days and at least 10 new side-issues will be raised. So much fun to fill the air, when one could otherwise be out riding. Usually, I bow out of a "discussion" if older than 2 days, but am waiting for my new chain to arrive.
Are you this guy on NABR? The comments are funny. Half the people are trying to help, half are calling him an idiot for neglecting maintenance for so long.

 

Supernam

Well-known member
Or crossing the bridge from New Hampshire to Vermont ( a helmetless state) and seeing all the H-D riders with their helmets brazenly jammed into the top of their sissy-bars (in the spirit of "We don't need no stinkin' helmets"). After all, the Vermont state motto is "Live free, or die", and if you ride there long enough both wishes will come true.
“Live free or die” is New Hampshire’s motto.

Vermont encourages helmet use and they even give out stickers that say “Ride PHAT” which stands for Protect your Head at All Times, I have it on my bike.

HELMET USE.
The law does not require helmets in Vermont. However, the Montpelier Bikes group and the Montpelier Police Department strongly encourage the use of helmets by both adults and children. ... Over 80% of bicycling head injuries could be prevented by wearing a helmet.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
But how would a business relationship with H-D benefit KTM?
I'm not talking about a biz relationship... ownership. It would benefit shareholders and riders by expanding the dealer network. For KTM, this means selling bikes everywhere in North America, not just pockets where you have dirt bike retailers.

KTM already has manufacturing partners in Asia and already sells bikes in Asia.
Yes, however this is not necessarily a winning strategy. Ya think competing with Honda in the low cost high volume market will get them anywhere? HD and KTM might make a press into small market for high end bikes in Asia.
They already have a sales network in North America. Anyone who wants a KTM can get one. Yes, the dealer network is sparse in some areas but keep in mind that there is no Honda motorcycle dealer in Toronto, either.
Not true. You can get dirt bikes most places, not so easy finding the high end stuff. KTM sells so few road bikes in North America they don't show up in the rounding errors.
Piggybacking on top of the H-D dealer network ain't gonna happen. Dealers would revolt and H-D's existing customers would revolt.
Maybe, but I doubt it. This would all be net - new clientele. Not like your gonna sell a Roadking to a kid looking for a 390 Duke.
H-D has manufacturing plants in the USA. Unionized. High cost.
Not as relevant in a high margin game. My guess is the US plants are cheaper than the Austrian plants by a long shot.
KTM's large adventure bikes are a moneymaker and it's an established product.
Potentially. They don't sell enough of them yet. That's the argument for an expanded US distribution network -- they need to sell like Vstroms.
 

Brian P

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Ownership? Which one owning whom? I think both of them are too big to be bought by the other. For publicly traded companies, shareholders need to be on board (typically by dangling money in front of them, I.e. the buying company pays a premium over the normal share price). I haven't dug into this to see if it is even conceivable.
 

xrljoel

Well-known member
"Maybe, but I doubt it. This would all be net - new clientele. Not like your gonna sell a Roadking to a kid looking for a 390 Duke. "

Except the people selling and servicing the Roadking have ZERO interest in talking to the "kid" looking at/for a 390 Duke, and many of those customers (KTM) don't want to belly up to the parts counter and wait for some old guy (I'm 53) to select new tassels for his handle bars (preventing the KTM guy from selecting some garishly colored shirt to match his pants and helmet).

"Potentially. They don't sell enough of them yet. That's the argument for an expanded US distribution network -- they need to sell like Vstroms."

No they don't. If I wanted a vstrom I would have bought one. Part of the cache of a brand like KTM is you DON'T see them on every corner. KTM uses their street bikes as much for marketing as they do as a profit centre. They reinforce the performance aspect of the brand, as well as the idea of exclusivity.

As you obviously know, profit is not solely driven by volume across an entire product line and not every product (line) complements nor drives sales of other, seemingly related ones. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer is eating Nuts and Gum.


A KTM - HD marriage would be the moto equivalent of Nuts and Gum.
 

Brian P

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Moderator
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Ownership? Which one owning whom? I think both of them are too big to be bought by the other. For publicly traded companies, shareholders need to be on board (typically by dangling money in front of them, I.e. the buying company pays a premium over the normal share price). I haven't dug into this to see if it is even conceivable.
Hmmm ... Because I can ...

KTM AG has a messy ownership structure which is slight-majority owned by a holding company that is a subsidiary of KTM Industries AG, and *that* appears to be majority owned by one person (the current KTM CEO). The other piece (almost half) of KTM is owned by Bajaj, the Indian company that manufactures a number of KTM bikes in India including the 390 series (and the related 200 and 125 models that aren't sold here). KTMI appears to have a market capitalization of around CHF 1.3 billion, which is near-as-makes-no-difference US$1.3 billion.

HOG has a market cap around US$5.8 billion.

From that, there is no way KTM could buy H-D as a whole, it is simply out of the question. For H-D to buy KTM as a whole, it would be a mighty big pill to swallow. On the H-D side, they'd have to find a couple billion bucks sitting around doing nothing. On the KTM side, the big shareholder(s) would have to be complicit in the deal and be convinced that selling the (growing and evidently profitable) company to someone else (a bigger company that is on a down trend and which does not have a good history of handling other brands that they own) is a good thing to do.

Can't see it happening. Mergers / joint ventures, not out of the question, but not an outright buyout by one of the other. Too big.

Agreements to co-operate with sales networks etc need not involve complete ownership of one company by the other.
 

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