Is there enough demand for a middle-weight sport-tourer?

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Iggy76

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I hear complaints all the time about supersports being too expensive on insurance and not being designed for riders. Arguably, they are really being designed for racers only, which is great... if you intend on racing. I would argue that most of the supersports on the road have never and will never see the track. So why do we keep buying them?

I have ridden just about every bike available. Supersports are a blast, but I would never want to actually own one. I love them, but for the riding I want to do (some longer distances, sometimes 2-up with a combined weight of almost 400lbs...) I feel the need to have more than a 600. Which lands me in that almost a liter bike territory and that scares insurance companies. I still want the full fairings, but for some reason there doesn't seem to be too many options for bikes that are not supersports or worse (Hayabusa, ZX-14 etc) but still are bigger than 600cc. I know that there are a few: SV650 - a little small for 2-up, VFR800 - older ones are nice, newer styling not so much, SV1000 - carved from chicken's teeth, good luck finding one or parts, Fazer8 - once you put on the aftermarket lower fairing kit. I am sure there are a couple more. Sure I could go to the big sport-tourers: VFR, Concours, FJR, Sprint GT (I guess it's the Trophy now). But they come with a huge initial price tag.

I can't be the only person who wants a sportier looking VFR, or a Sprint 800 derived from the new Tiger motor, or a full fairing FZ8. Or maybe a new SV... update the suspension, new motor maybe 750-850, anything but a transplanted Gladius.
 
No offense but there are lots of "Sport Tourers" that are not 1001cc+ or maybe I just misread your post. Personally I'm in the same boat with the Ninja1000 being at the top of my list. Especially since it can come with with hard bags from the factory.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=4216&class=79&group=M|&LANG=en
http://motorcycle.honda.ca/sport/cbf1000a
http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/STREET-TOURING/1513/Ninja-1000-ABS
http://moto.suzuki.ca/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX650F/2013/GSX650FA.aspx
 
Yeah I knew about the GSX650, they always leave me wanting so much more. I suppose with a decent exhaust and a tune it might liven up a bit.

Actually that Ninja is excellent, I had one as a demo for a weekend. Not sure where that falls with my insurance company though.

The Fazer and the CBF are only half fairing bikes... I know there's a kit for the Fazer that looks pretty good.
 
The "Adventure Bike" category, like my Suzuki DL650 V-Strom are becoming quite popular as great fun bikes, comfy on long rides and, in many cases great two up. They don't have the all out performance of sport bikes or the insurance hit. They are kind of ugly (although I think my 2012 isn't nearly as ugly as my 2006) but great everyday bikes that put a smile on your face all the time.

..Tom
 
SV small for 2up ?

I rode mine with my wife and had no issues. I am over 200 pounds but by no means a fat ***. A top bag would have made it perfect for 2 up riding.
 
Jampy00 said:
SV small for 2up ?

I rode mine with my wife and had no issues. I am over 200 pounds but by no means a fat ***. A top bag would have made it perfect for 2 up riding.
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I'm over 6' tall and more than 200lbs and my wife is 5' 10". Riding 2-up on bikes like the SV can most certainly be done, I've done it, but it doesn't inspire confidence braking and such with both of us on it. Seeing us on an SV is really funny looking actually. I love the bikes, just want more of everything, little bigger frame, stronger brakes, little more get-up-and-go. We rode for a weekend on the Ninja 1000 and despite being tired after the long ride, it never made me think that there wasn't enough there. Plenty of power and confidence inspiring no matter what we did.

As an unimportant side note, I've always preferred side bags to the top cases. I don't know why, just like the look a lot better.
 
The GSX650 is close I guess, but it's an 'old guard' bike - steel frame, non-cartridge fork, and really heavy. Like my old Bandit 600 with an injected, water-cooled engine.

The bike that really fits your description is the BMW F800GT.

I think things are bad enough economically that a $4000 10-year-old VFR, Sprint, ZX-9 or K1200RS is a lot easier to bite off and chew than a new $10,000 bike. That was my mindset and I ended up with a VFR800.

It seems like cheaper, 'adventure' bikes are more the flavor of the day, so we're seeing bikes like the Tiger 800, V-Strom, Versys, NC700 and CB500X fill that void. To be honest, I like these bikes a lot and they'd suit my riding style well, and keep a decent sporting clip in the corners.
 
honduhmatic said:
The GSX650 is close I guess, but it's an 'old guard' bike - steel frame, non-cartridge fork, and really heavy. Like my old Bandit 600 with an injected, water-cooled engine.

The bike that really fits your description is the BMW F800GT.

I think things are bad enough economically that a $4000 10-year-old VFR, Sprint, ZX-9 or K1200RS is a lot easier to bite off and chew than a new $10,000 bike. That was my mindset and I ended up with a VFR800.

It seems like cheaper, 'adventure' bikes are more the flavor of the day, so we're seeing bikes like the Tiger 800, V-Strom, Versys, NC700 and CB500X fill that void. To be honest, I like these bikes a lot and they'd suit my riding style well, and keep a decent sporting clip in the corners.
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The BMW does look nice, curious to see what they are priced at.

Agreed. But, I don't know how much cheaper the adventure bikes are though, the Tiger 800 is still $13000, pretty much the same as a Ninja 1000. It just feels like there is a gap in the market. I don't see any reason there couldn't be a ~750cc bike in the street/sport class with full fairings, that isn't a complete turd for < $11,000.

I completely agree that used bikes are driving the market right now, and there are enough of them that for the next couple of years there should be no problems. But in five years when those bikes are past their prime, the market that has/is taking a hit now won't be providing a large used inventory the way it has been. And the demand for bikes will be roughly the same. I imagine we'll see some improvement over the next couple of years. A couple of manufacturers are already leaning that way (Honda cbr 125, 250, 500... and Kawi). I'd be surprised if we didn't see a couple of new options from those two, and maybe suzuki soon. Yamaha is notoriously slow in changing with the market, so add a couple of years for them.
 
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It's cool, but not that cheap. (That's the bike the brits call the 'Deauville' right?)

I think the F800GT is about $14k as well. Used F800ST's and F800S' are in the $6-9k range now.

I think other than the 'full fairing' component, V-Strom's and Versys fill the gap. Sure they're adventure 'styled' but really they have aluminum frames, handle OK (at least I thought the old 'strom did), and come with optional luggage. V-Stroms are quite cheap now, a few dealers are clearing 2012's out for $9k, maybe less. Apart from sex appeal they check all the boxes.

A bike like my 2000 VFR does suit your criteria, but it was about $13k new as well. Triumph Sprints were about the same price as well. Katanas were about the same price as the current GSX650 but were similar old-school bikes - steel-framed, heavy, and with carbs and air-cooled engines.
 
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Honda CBR1100XX (although 1000+ cc) is a very nice sport tourer, with good fairing coverage, plenty of punch for 2up (maybe the pilion seating position is not so comfortable for longer days) and can be had for 4000-6000$. They are fairly rare though. ST1100 or ST1300 would be good bets as well.

I use mine for weekend touring, doing 700-1000 km a day with no issues.
 
fearlessbob said:
Honda CBR1100XX (although 1000+ cc) is a very nice sport tourer, with good fairing coverage, plenty of punch for 2up (maybe the pilion seating position is not so comfortable for longer days) and can be had for 4000-6000$. They are fairly rare though. ST1100 or ST1300 would be good bets as well.

I use mine for weekend touring, doing 700-1000 km a day with no issues.
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Yes, the Blackbird is a terrific solution. Unfortunately it's also on the restricted insurance list. I love them though. And in stark contrast I hate the ST's, I hate revving the engine and being twisted toward the ditch.
 
Iggy76 said:
Yes, the Blackbird is a terrific solution. Unfortunately it's also on the restricted insurance list. I love them though. And in stark contrast I hate the ST's, I hate revving the engine and being twisted toward the ditch.
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It's a drag that some of the restricted bikes make great sport touring machines like the busa, zx14, blackbird. It's a catch 22, the big engine that lets you roll along at 3500 rpm and get decent mileage is also capable of hurtling you to 300 km/h, and that's what the insurance companies focus on.
 
There's not one bike out there that can do it all. Different bikes for different purposes.

if people are finding 2up difficult on sportbikes.... I hear Goldwings are awesome with passengers.
 
I think there's 'sweet spots' and happy mediums 'tho.

I love my VFR800, but I can't think an FJR1300, or an RT BMW is that much worse in the corners. Hell, an FJR's probably even faster. (Going off what I've heard; would love to try either bike sometime.)

If I had my way and a lot more money, I'd probably be the only guy in his 20's riding a full-on 'touring' R1200RT.
 
I'm discovering the world of the ST1100s and they seem to fit a middle weight sport tourer far more than I thought and the price is right for them. Quite an amazing community.
Bullet proof engine, weight is down low so handling is good. 635 lb. dry weight and a big tank. 28 litres for range.
http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?124589-1993-ST1100-Centre-of-Gravity/page2

$T2eC16NHJHgE9n0yEiY!BQ7IUHHzsw~~48_20.JPG


6k for that barely broken in
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=445916811

When I think middle weight though I consider 500 through 800. The NC700 I'd never put in that class. -it's a boring commuter.
I concur on the GS800 and a number of the "dual sport" - twin cylinders.
The VFR800 is for me the ideal middle Sport Tourer with a tilt to Sport. The St1100 with a tilt to tourer.
 
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Ducati ST2, ST3, or ST4 sportiest of the sport tourers, but I'm bias :)
You'll have to find a used one. they stopped producing the ST line in 2007.
Insurance is in the $750 range for full coverage.

st4s.jpg
 
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Iggy76 said:
I can't be the only person who wants a sportier looking VFR, or a Sprint 800 derived from the new Tiger motor, or a full fairing FZ8. Or maybe a new SV... update the suspension, new motor maybe 750-850, anything but a transplanted Gladius.
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Get a used 2000-2003 CBR1100xx. Sportier than a VFR, ridiculously fast, and can handle some decent sized hardboxes with grace.

That said, my only complaint against my old 2000 VFR800 was a lack of over-the-top power. That bike is a spectacular sport-tourer, more nimble than the CBR1100xx, lots of touring options, good on gas, and bloody comfortable. Sadly, it can only do 222km/h on the Autobaun (real, by GPS, about 250km/h indicated) with me and all my crap.

Part of me thinks the 2000-2001 VFR800 may be the ultimate sports-tourer evar.
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