send that note to Kawi, since they dont seem to be seeing it
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Is the KLR replacement out yet?
- Thread starter timtune
- Start date
J_F
Guest
I see KTM and Yamaha defining the middle weight ADV segment
off road focused parallel twins
that also are not awful on the blacktop
so I see Kawi banging their excellent 650 twin out a bit
and working on something
a bit lighter and more dirt
than a Versys chassis
higher margin
and sexier than a KLR
Sent from my Infinix HOT 4 Pro using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
off road focused parallel twins
that also are not awful on the blacktop
so I see Kawi banging their excellent 650 twin out a bit
and working on something
a bit lighter and more dirt
than a Versys chassis
higher margin
and sexier than a KLR
Sent from my Infinix HOT 4 Pro using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
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Me too ....I think the bigger market world wide for Kawi is in the Learner category against the BMW 310.
Kawi has Yamaha, Honda and KTM in the true dual sport ( not adventure ) category and all are pricey.
Kawi with a 450 thumper at $6k Cnd and more off pavement ( 21" wheel, better clearance, lowish weight and decent size tank ) has little competition.
Kawi has Yamaha, Honda and KTM in the true dual sport ( not adventure ) category and all are pricey.
Kawi with a 450 thumper at $6k Cnd and more off pavement ( 21" wheel, better clearance, lowish weight and decent size tank ) has little competition.
"Kawi with a 450 thumper at $6k Cnd and more off pavement ( 21" wheel, better clearance, lowish weight and decent size tank ) has little competition."
The DRZ 400 would be the competition, and they still seem to sell. Kawasaki, at one time had a re-barge agreement with Suzuki and sold DRZ400's as KLX400's.
Still, I agree with you. It would be good to see a relatively up to date 400/450 dual purpose bike at more of an entry level price point.
The DRZ 400 would be the competition, and they still seem to sell. Kawasaki, at one time had a re-barge agreement with Suzuki and sold DRZ400's as KLX400's.
Still, I agree with you. It would be good to see a relatively up to date 400/450 dual purpose bike at more of an entry level price point.
Nothing up to date will be under 8g and nothing good will be less than 12g the Honda 450 is finally decent but a bit overweight and the pricing reflects a modern dirt bike.
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Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Oh ...tell that to Honda. CB500x is certainly uptodate and under $8k and Honda has a premium edge. Kawa could come in at $6k
$5999 brand new 2018 Honda CB 500X ABS | Sport Bikes | Ottawa | Kijiji
If they leave that entry level open then some Chinese firm will get it together enough to fill it.
Motorcycle Buyers Guide - Kawasaki KLR250, KL250, KL250 Super Sherpa
Motorcycle Buyers Guide - Kawasaki KLR250, KL250, KL250 Super Sherpa
www.totalmotorcycle.com
They had a 250 version - split the difference
KLR450 and call it a SuperSherpa.
Something that can tip over without damage and 300 lb.
Iceman
Well-known member
An up to date dirt bike/dual sport. The cb500x is not that, it is an adv styled entry level street bike. Of course it's under $8000.Oh ...tell that to Honda. CB500x is certainly uptodate and under $8k and Honda has a premium edge. Kawa could come in at $6k
$5999 brand new 2018 Honda CB 500X ABS | Sport Bikes | Ottawa | Kijiji
If they leave that entry level open then some Chinese firm will get it together enough to fill it.
Motorcycle Buyers Guide - Kawasaki KLR250, KL250, KL250 Super Sherpa
Motorcycle Buyers Guide - Kawasaki KLR250, KL250, KL250 Super Sherpa
They had a 250 version - split the difference
KLR450 and call it a SuperSherpa.
Something that can tip over without damage and 300 lb.
Any modern fuel injected dualsport with good suspension and braking components is definitely going to be 10 grand or more.
The little sherpa was never up to date, even when it was new lol.
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I hope the Tenere is the priced fair, bike looks amazing!!
You're right, when I think of up to date in terms of a dual sport I'm thinking high quality, fully adjustable suspension, modern design/geometry and moderate weight. Ktm, Husky and the Honda CRF450L being those things.
The DRZ400 has a 2019 MSRP of $7400, and the DR650 is $6500. Both capable but old school. Nothing wrong with either bike as delivered and modification options are endless.
As you said in an earlier post any new dual sport that is up to date is going to break $12K, and even a new model from Kawasaki that is similar tech-wise to the DRZ or DR is going to cost more because of the cost of design/engineering and manufacturing. Even if it is built in China.
As I've read elsewhere, a 250cc single costs the same to manufacture as a 700cc single, so the only way that they're cheaper is if the manufacturer takes a lower profit margin.
Regarding the KLR, my friend has stored his 2000 KLR in my barn for the last 2 years. When we put it away we ran it until it quit with the fuel tap turned off and drained the float bowl. Yesterday it started up in less than a minute. 2 year old gas (the tank was absolutely full when stored), and the battery maintained a nearly full charge for 2 years without a tender. There's a lot to be said for old school simplicity and long production runs.
The dual sport market is tiny compared to the adventure market.
We were discussing a KLR650 replacement,.,,.not an XLR650 etc,
the klr650 is only marginally a dual sport
my comments on the cb500x referred to the adv market where there is an openng for a $6k Cdn light thumper imnsho.
Yep ..my 2004 lay on it's side for two weeks when one of the girls knocked it over before I arrived - I picked it up ....it sputtered and complained but started as soon as the carb sorted itself.
It also sat in a metal shed for 9 months once - everything dried out as temps inside would hit 50+ - no gas left and battery was toast.
Started fine when fuel and battery restored.
You are also correct on the minor cost difference from a 250 to a 450+.
A 450 is top of the range in India and they have the volume to amortize costs for a reliable old school motor that will run on dodgy gas and low maintenance. I think it was Honda 250 that had a "world motor" designed around just that.
With insurance so high in Canada.....the cost of a bike is a big factor.
Kawa has the motor in the 2019 KX450,
ALL-NEW 2019 KX450 | Kawasaki Motors Australia
Needs an ADV chassis. Drop the HP to 49 to meet the Learner category ease off on the race suspension and add better seating. It only weighs 232 lb dry so there is room for creature comforts and still be lighter than the CB500x, The BMW 310 is nly 349 lb wet so it can be done.
450 version of that around 350 lb I'd be in for Australia for sure as my KLR650 replacement.
At $5500 new in Canada for the BMW310 ,.....surely Kawi can meet that with a motor with more HP more suited to highway and off pavement travel.
GS version is what Kawi could emulate but with more power.
3 gallon tank with 70 mpg on the GS 310 ....4 gallon on the KLR would be better.
Switchable ABS is a nice feature.
2018 BMW G 310 GS Review | 21 Fast Facts
We were discussing a KLR650 replacement,.,,.not an XLR650 etc,
the klr650 is only marginally a dual sport
my comments on the cb500x referred to the adv market where there is an openng for a $6k Cdn light thumper imnsho.
Yep ..my 2004 lay on it's side for two weeks when one of the girls knocked it over before I arrived - I picked it up ....it sputtered and complained but started as soon as the carb sorted itself.
It also sat in a metal shed for 9 months once - everything dried out as temps inside would hit 50+ - no gas left and battery was toast.
Started fine when fuel and battery restored.
You are also correct on the minor cost difference from a 250 to a 450+.
A 450 is top of the range in India and they have the volume to amortize costs for a reliable old school motor that will run on dodgy gas and low maintenance. I think it was Honda 250 that had a "world motor" designed around just that.
With insurance so high in Canada.....the cost of a bike is a big factor.
Kawa has the motor in the 2019 KX450,
ALL-NEW 2019 KX450 | Kawasaki Motors Australia
Needs an ADV chassis. Drop the HP to 49 to meet the Learner category ease off on the race suspension and add better seating. It only weighs 232 lb dry so there is room for creature comforts and still be lighter than the CB500x, The BMW 310 is nly 349 lb wet so it can be done.
450 version of that around 350 lb I'd be in for Australia for sure as my KLR650 replacement.
At $5500 new in Canada for the BMW310 ,.....surely Kawi can meet that with a motor with more HP more suited to highway and off pavement travel.
GS version is what Kawi could emulate but with more power.
3 gallon tank with 70 mpg on the GS 310 ....4 gallon on the KLR would be better.
Switchable ABS is a nice feature.
2018 BMW G 310 GS Review | 21 Fast Facts
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The dual sport market is tiny compared to the adventure market.
We were discussing a KLR650 replacement,.,,.not an XLR650 etc,
the klr650 is only marginally a dual sport
my comments on the cb500x referred to the adv market where there is an openng for a $6k Cdn light thumper imnsho.
Yep ..my 2004 lay on it's side for two weeks when one of the girls knocked it over before I arrived - I picked it up ....it sputtered and complained but started as soon as the carb sorted itself.
It also sat in a metal shed for 9 months once - everything dried out as temps inside would hit 50+ - no gas left and battery was toast.
Started fine when fuel and battery restored.
You are also correct on the minor cost difference from a 250 to a 450+.
A 450 is top of the range in India and they have the volume to amortize costs for a reliable old school motor that will run on dodgy gas and low maintenance. I think it was Honda 250 that had a "world motor" designed around just that.
With insurance so high in Canada.....the cost of a bike is a big factor.
Kawa has the motor in the 2019 KX450,
ALL-NEW 2019 KX450 | Kawasaki Motors Australia
Needs an ADV chassis. Drop the HP to 49 to meet the Learner category ease off on the race suspension and add better seating. It only weighs 232 lb dry so there is room for creature comforts and still be lighter than the CB500x, The BMW 310 is nly 349 lb wet so it can be done.
450 version of that around 350 lb I'd be in for Australia for sure as my KLR650 replacement.
At $5500 new in Canada for the BMW310 ,.....surely Kawi can meet that with a motor with more HP more suited to highway and off pavement travel.
GS version is what Kawi could emulate but with more power.
3 gallon tank with 70 mpg on the GS 310 ....4 gallon on the KLR would be better.
Switchable ABS is a nice feature.
2018 BMW G 310 GS Review | 21 Fast Facts
"Kawa has the motor in the 2019 KX450," The MSRP on the new KX is $10,400. The motor is likely highly stressed and requires intensive maintenance. Honda de-tuned and heavily modified the CRF motor for it's new dual sport application, but the price reflects the cost of engineering.
Kawasaki would have to do the same and the selling price would likely be much the same. Even if they were tempted to "cheap out" on the chassis (they wouldn't) they still couldn't get the price below $8K".
On Adventure Rider there's a Canadian Guy who bought a Royal Enfield Himalayan. He seems to like it, and says he paid $6500 + tax, so there's a low $$ option.
Kawi would have to move production to India if they wanted to price a bike as low as a BMW 310GS or Royal Enfield. Both of these also made in India, BTW...
There's a reason why the Thai-made CRF250L is $6K and the Japan-made CRF450L is $14K...
There's a reason why the Thai-made CRF250L is $6K and the Japan-made CRF450L is $14K...
A) nothing wrong with manufacturing elsewhere than Japan and India would be a natural given its huge market
B) if Honda can do the CB500x and BMW 310 at the prices they do ...no reason Kawi can't compete with a single. Using detuned models of an existing high performance engine is common practice and the cost of engineering lower than a blank sheet approach. Honda used existing tech from their high performance models in the CB series,
C) the risk for Kawi is losing the "low cost/durable" cache the KLR650 owned for so long to something like the Royal Enfields or a China bike.
KLR 650 – The Exhaust Notes Blog
10 more HP and BMW owns the turf given the price and it too is exploiting the "GS" badge,
B) if Honda can do the CB500x and BMW 310 at the prices they do ...no reason Kawi can't compete with a single. Using detuned models of an existing high performance engine is common practice and the cost of engineering lower than a blank sheet approach. Honda used existing tech from their high performance models in the CB series,
C) the risk for Kawi is losing the "low cost/durable" cache the KLR650 owned for so long to something like the Royal Enfields or a China bike.
KLR 650 – The Exhaust Notes Blog
10 more HP and BMW owns the turf given the price and it too is exploiting the "GS" badge,
2019 CSC RX4 - Could this be the ADV Thumper You've Been Waiting For?
TK4
Well-known member
"2019 CSC RX4 - Could this be the ADV Thumper You've Been Waiting For? "
I had a long, involved and heated debate with Joe Berk the company spokesman on Canada MotoGuide a couple of years ago.
Customer direct sales and parts, limited warranty, no satisfactory system for dealing with problems or recalls except "fix it yourself and we'll take care of you."
Having said that, they seem to have made the business model work, at least in the U.S.
I had a long, involved and heated debate with Joe Berk the company spokesman on Canada MotoGuide a couple of years ago.
Customer direct sales and parts, limited warranty, no satisfactory system for dealing with problems or recalls except "fix it yourself and we'll take care of you."
Having said that, they seem to have made the business model work, at least in the U.S.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
You are also correct on the minor cost difference from a 250 to a 450+.
A 450 is top of the range in India and they have the volume to amortize costs for a reliable old school motor that will run on dodgy gas and low maintenance. I think it was Honda 250 that had a "world motor" designed around just that.
With insurance so high in Canada.....the cost of a bike is a big factor.
Kawa has the motor in the 2019 KX450,
ALL-NEW 2019 KX450 | Kawasaki Motors Australia
Needs an ADV chassis. Drop the HP to 49 to meet the Learner category ease off on the race suspension and add better seating. It only weighs 232 lb dry so there is room for creature comforts and still be lighter than the CB500x.
Good luck maintaining that. I change the oil in my 450 every 4-5 hours. To make a streetable, reliable 450 it really isn’t going to make much more power then bikes like wr250r and DRZ400 so what’s the point? Then people will complain about the weight just like they do the new CRF450L which really isn’t all that heavy when compared to a 450 mx bike.
We’re actually pretty lucky to have the amount options available that we currently have. Want cheap? Get a Japanese 250/DRZ 400. Want the good components and good power? Break out the Cheque book and head over to Honda or KTM/Husky. Want to spend even more but have all day comfort and usability/road manners while still being capable in the woods. Stay at the KTM dealer and grab a 690.
You won’t be buying a bike that does everything well for $6000.
You get what you pay for.The CB500X CRF 250 Rally are perfect examples.Good post Blackcamaro.
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