Is Private Healthcare coming to Ontario? | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Is Private Healthcare coming to Ontario?

On the flip side, what if you're health care provider was more like a supermarket - see your GP then go down the hall to see a specialist? That's how my health care was delivered when I lived in the USA, quicker and more efficiently.

If I scuffed a knuckle and needed a stitch, the clinic dr would do that on the spot. Here, my family Dr sends me to emerge where I get to take up the time of a triage nurse, check-in administrator, another nurse then a doctor.
The scary difference between the US and Canadian systems to me is that in Canada they seem to do what's needed. In the USA it's like a car dealership. What options can the tack on if you've got insurance.

Ages ago OHIP covered you everywhere but a few cases of abuse made them dump out of province treatments. They would prefer you break your arm in the USA because if you broke it here they'd have to pick up the tab. Why wouldn't they compensate atthe Canadian rate?
 
The scary difference between the US and Canadian systems to me is that in Canada they seem to do what's needed. In the USA it's like a car dealership. What options can the tack on if you've got insurance.

Ages ago OHIP covered you everywhere but a few cases of abuse made them dump out of province treatments. They would prefer you break your arm in the USA because if you broke it here they'd have to pick up the tab. Why wouldn't they compensate atthe Canadian rate?
I wouldnt say ontario does what's needed. We often have an incredibly long wait to get to a diagnosis (gp, referral, wait to see specialist, lab tests, wait to see specialist, no answer, back to gp, referral, etc). By the time you finally get a diagnosis, it is often too late amd something that was treatable when you started pushing for answers is now terminal. Now, I'm not advocating for unnecessary expensive diagnostics but we definitely need to speed up the process huge imo.
 
A little off topic but I throw it out.

If you're on a prescription and are retired or have no benefits plan ask for a few repeats of your scrip. I was paying a 12$ dispensing fee every 3 months. Then I asked if I could get more at once and (after checking the expiry date) he gave me almost a years worth for the same 12$ dispensing fee.

Might as well save where you can.

I wish it was that way with narcotic pain meds.
 
I wish it was that way with narcotic pain meds.
They probably don’t do that because of the risk of someone getting addicted….or simply selling off their meds to other pushers / users.

Which is too bad because it does help save money for many folks as stated above by @timtune.
 
we might be better off having multiple doctors and a variety of services operating in purpose built medical service centers. Less admin overhead, easier for users, possibly better hours and time to access services.
I'd say there are more and more of these kinds of places being built.
 
I wouldnt say ontario does what's needed. We often have an incredibly long wait to get to a diagnosis (gp, referral, wait to see specialist, lab tests, wait to see specialist, no answer, back to gp, referral, etc). By the time you finally get a diagnosis, it is often too late amd something that was treatable when you started pushing for answers is now terminal. Now, I'm not advocating for unnecessary expensive diagnostics but we definitely need to speed up the process huge imo.

Typically six months to see a specialist. One common problem is joint surgery. If someone is in pain they stop or minimize using the joint and it suffers atrophy. Being healthy going into surgery means a faster better recovery. It isn't happening. Waiting a year is nothing these days. Then a tougher recovery.

When I said OHIP does what is necessary I meant whenthe finally get around to it. I'm considering some minor hernia surgery and spoke to my doctor's receptionist a month ago to find out what lead times are. I still haven't heard back. A bunch of other ailments are being well looked after.
 
I feel canada overpays for prescription medication too which the govt does nothing about. One of my wife's family members here needed a specific medication to keep her alive. It cost the family nearly $10k per month in canada. They were lucky they had family in the US who got it for her for only $500 a month, the same medication would not have cost more then $100 a month in Australia (because of the safety net threshold) and if she had a concession card, which she would have as a pensioner, no more then $30 a month.

A decade ago when in Australia with the family my wife ran out of a prescription she was paying $200 for 50 pills ($4/pill) in Canada. Went to a GP which cost $30 to see a doctor (with zero Aus coverage), gave her a prescription, went to the chemist and got the medication for $50 for 200 pills ($0.25/pill) again zero coverge. If she was Australian with her free Medicare coverage it would have been a free doctors visit and $7 ($0.035/pill) for the medication.

I see it as just an extra tax for living in Canada thesedays.
 
I feel canada overpays for prescription medication too which the govt does nothing about. One of my wife's family members here needed a specific medication to keep her alive. It cost the family nearly $10k per month in canada. They were lucky they had family in the US who got it for her for only $500 a month, the same medication would not have cost more then $100 a month in Australia (because of the safety net threshold) and if she had a concession card, which she would have as a pensioner, no more then $30 a month.

A decade ago when in Australia with the family my wife ran out of a prescription she was paying $200 for 50 pills ($4/pill) in Canada. Went to a GP which cost $30 to see a doctor (with zero Aus coverage), gave her a prescription, went to the chemist and got the medication for $50 for 200 pills ($0.25/pill) again zero coverge. If she was Australian with her free Medicare coverage it would have been a free doctors visit and $7 ($0.035/pill) for the medication.

I see it as just an extra tax for living in Canada thesedays.
But we have "free" healthcare. /s Dont try to do the math that dispels that rumour, it is one of our core values.
 
I feel canada overpays for prescription medication too which the govt does nothing about. One of my wife's family members here needed a specific medication to keep her alive. It cost the family nearly $10k per month in canada. They were lucky they had family in the US who got it for her for only $500 a month, the same medication would not have cost more then $100 a month in Australia (because of the safety net threshold) and if she had a concession card, which she would have as a pensioner, no more then $30 a month.

A decade ago when in Australia with the family my wife ran out of a prescription she was paying $200 for 50 pills ($4/pill) in Canada. Went to a GP which cost $30 to see a doctor (with zero Aus coverage), gave her a prescription, went to the chemist and got the medication for $50 for 200 pills ($0.25/pill) again zero coverge. If she was Australian with her free Medicare coverage it would have been a free doctors visit and $7 ($0.035/pill) for the medication.

I see it as just an extra tax for living in Canada thesedays.

I don't know the details but apparently we offset costs of med to pharmacy here

Now, if you're talking about biologics, which is heavily hinted by "specific medication to keep her alive", these were the drugs I mentioned earlier in the thread that will hit you with $10,000+ (probably more tbh) month bills. These drugs are made to order, extremely complicated, and require some crazy **** like fridged units at a specific temp within 1-2 degrees or the whole thing goes to ****.

Quickly Googling, and knowing from my work, the prices between USA and Canada are not different (they're pay out of your ass type prices); there's more to this story for sure.
 
I hope anyone without CPP will put away as much as they can, not easy to do if you're saving for a house at the same time.

It's easy to say CPP is crap but it beats havng nothing. RRSPs with next-to-nothing bank interests are as bad. You defer taxes.

The plus side of mandatory CPP is that a lot of people are incompetent with their finances. A fifty something woman my wife worked for sold her townhouse a half dozen years ago and went rental. She announced that now she had $60,000 to put away for retirement.

My B-I-L invested in currency speculation among other things and lost his shirt. While he made some decent money occasionally he paid himself out of dividends so no CPP. When he had to scrape together money he tapped CPP and got about $200 a month.

My brother went bankrupt and when he started working again he had to make up for lost time and invested in Bre-X losing everything he put in. He died when he was 66 so didn't collect a lot of benefits.

Around half the credit card holders don't pay off balances.

Those are the people I worry about. A lot of them feel their only hope is a lottery win. They can't be forced into retirement at 65 but if they haven't got a long history with their employer they aren't that expensive to dump.

So...I apologize for double downing on the remorselessness but I've been dying to have this conversation for a while with somebody level headed:

I know many are incompetent with money. I figured that out in 2008 and have since made money via the opportunities that, those without buffer, planning, or fall back plans, get bankrupt from despite being a complete amateur (and still pretty stupid versus professionals.) The system is also built in a way, and correct me if I'm wrong because this is from observations and not actual schooling, where you need a set amount of losers in order for retirement to be affordable. In other words, if everyone had my plan, no one is retiring because costs of good sky rocket.

So....am I paying CPP to lower crime rates and dangle a carrot for the stupid to chase? And in return, my retirement gets pushed out due to how much **** I lose to EI and CPP. This is still not positive lol

...ah **** lol, I'm gonna stop my brain. This is really bleak train of thought but will leave it here because I'm pretty sure others see this as well.
 
So...I apologize for double downing on the remorselessness but I've been dying to have this conversation for a while with somebody level headed:

I know many are incompetent with money. I figured that out in 2008 and have since made money via the opportunities that, those without buffer, planning, or fall back plans, get bankrupt from despite being a complete amateur (and still pretty stupid versus professionals.) The system is also built in a way, and correct me if I'm wrong because this is from observations and not actual schooling, where you need a set amount of losers in order for retirement to be affordable. In other words, if everyone had my plan, no one is retiring because costs of good sky rocket.

So....am I paying CPP to lower crime rates and dangle a carrot for the stupid to chase? And in return, my retirement gets pushed out due to how much **** I lose to EI and CPP. This is still not positive lol

...ah **** lol, I'm gonna stop my brain. This is really bleak train of thought but will leave it here because I'm pretty sure others see this as well.
I know some people that are reasonably smart that struggle with money. The root of most of their issues is a warped view of wants vs needs.

One had their $300 espresso machine break. I fixed it for them, the problem was it had never been cleaned. In the time it took me to fix it, they bought a $3000+ espresso machine on credit as they "needed" coffee. No you ^$^#*#* dont need coffee, you want coffee. If you treated the cheap machine like crap and killed it, that wont change with the expensive machine but the cost to repair will be much higher (requiring more money you dont have). They made one smart decision and bought a house before the rocket took off. The house "needed" new windows, a new front door, a new deck etc so they added a lot to their mortgage in the last few years to pay for those necessities. Basically floundering through financial life but a single good decision early on will save them from being destitute.
 
I'd say there are more and more of these kinds of places being built.
Yes there are, however they are nowhere as efficient as what I had 20 years ago in the USA. I could go to a center that every specialist under one roof. I didn't need referrals -- if I had a kid problem - book with a Pediatrician, arthritis - book a rheumatologist, female needs - gynecologist, need an x-ray - go to radiology, need blood work - go to the lab... and so on. So fast, so convenient.

Another thing was the providers were not working piecework - so there was less overhead for them in billing and accounting for every procedure by patient and practitioner.

Another thing I noticed that was different in the US is the scope of what each practitioner is able to do. As an example, a nurse in a clinic would do a routine stitch up of a cut -- not send the patient to a hospital. I had a nurse (wife) on my men's league hockey team, she was our trainer, she stitched me on the ice.
 
The scary difference between the US and Canadian systems to me is that in Canada they seem to do what's needed. In the USA it's like a car dealership. What options can the tack on if you've got insurance.
...
It's not like that, health care is often 'managed' by the insurer themselves - they have little interest in performing unnecessary procedures and a lot of interest in preventative intervention and early treatments as these are money savers for them in the long run.

Many have a misconception that it's like the model used by dentists in Ontario (who use software to figure out the maximum amount of milk they can suck from the insurers teat.). It's not.
 
I feel canada overpays for prescription medication too which the govt does nothing about. One of my wife's family members here needed a specific medication to keep her alive. It cost the family nearly $10k per month in canada. They were lucky they had family in the US who got it for her for only $500 a month, the same medication would not have cost more then $100 a month in Australia (because of the safety net threshold) and if she had a concession card, which she would have as a pensioner, no more then $30 a month.

A decade ago when in Australia with the family my wife ran out of a prescription she was paying $200 for 50 pills ($4/pill) in Canada. Went to a GP which cost $30 to see a doctor (with zero Aus coverage), gave her a prescription, went to the chemist and got the medication for $50 for 200 pills ($0.25/pill) again zero coverge. If she was Australian with her free Medicare coverage it would have been a free doctors visit and $7 ($0.035/pill) for the medication.

I see it as just an extra tax for living in Canada thesedays.
To the best of my knowledge we generally are paying substantially less than the US. My own meds cost 2-3X more in the US and would amount to a car payment. I might find some data to link to later when I am less busy
 
Yes there are, however they are nowhere as efficient as what I had 20 years ago in the USA. I could go to a center that every specialist under one roof. I didn't need referrals -- if I had a kid problem - book with a Pediatrician, arthritis - book a rheumatologist, female needs - gynecologist, need an x-ray - go to radiology, need blood work - go to the lab... and so on. So fast, so convenient.

Another thing was the providers were not working piecework - so there was less overhead for them in billing and accounting for every procedure by patient and practitioner.

Another thing I noticed that was different in the US is the scope of what each practitioner is able to do. As an example, a nurse in a clinic would do a routine stitch up of a cut -- not send the patient to a hospital. I had a nurse (wife) on my men's league hockey team, she was our trainer, she stitched me on the ice.
There's a pretty good one on Yonge and Eglinton. X rays were in the same building so the doc would order an x ray and talk to me right after.

Most places have extremely inefficacies though.
 
It's not like that, health care is often 'managed' by the insurer themselves - they have little interest in performing unnecessary procedures and a lot of interest in preventative intervention and early treatments as these are money savers for them in the long run.

Many have a misconception that it's like the model used by dentists in Ontario (who use software to figure out the maximum amount of milk they can suck from the insurers teat.). It's not.
I knew an American who admitted to riding over-zealously which put him severely injured into an American ditch. He was air lifted to a hospital where he was treated and advised of the loving care he was going to get, the post op care, recovery and physio. His parents drove probably 700 miles to get to the hospital because one was on meds that made flying a no-no.

They arrived just as the hospital found out the guy didn't have insurance. He could stand so the hospital declared him healed and released him to his parents who had just checked into a motel across the street. A friend twisted the hospital's arm to give them a wheelchair. The guy, with broken bones everywhere, had to endure a 700 mile drive back to his parents place in a SUV and they had to take care of him. Recovery without physio is not a good plan.

Case 2) On another forum a well known and helpful member wanted the thoughts of others. He was IT but lost his job and medical coverage. Tests at the free hospital said he had cancer but they didn't have the equipment to say exactly what version. For that he would have to go to a for-profit facility that wanted $10,000.

His question was should he gamble the $10 K in hopes of a cure but risk leaving his wife with a bigger mortgage if the results were unfavourable.

We raised $15 K for him. He got the tests and it turned out the cancer was treatable and the state would pay for the meds. He walked out of the hospital with a bag of pills worth more than his Goldwing.

The hospital sent him a bill for around $10 K. He ignored it and the reminders until the hospital sent a final notice that they would accept $4 K. If they didn't get that it would go into collections. Then he paid the bill.

IMO OHIP has no accountability. I have no idea of what my medical visits cost OHIP and no doctor has ever indicated that they know. I guess everything is free. Contractors build hospitals for free. 3M and Siemens donate CT equipment, X-ray stuff for free. Hospitals don't pay wages or for electrical power etc. Food is free. Nurses and cleaners are volunteers.

In any other organization the recipient of goods or services starts a paper chain so the guy that writes the cheque to pay for them can relate the goods and services to the cheque amount. "Mad Mike, you submitted an expense report indicating you bought $90 worth of gas for a company vehicle. Yes / No" Cheque approved.

It doesn't go "Someone sent us a bill for something. Let's pay it." I wonder how many people can relate to the waste when they think "Free". You tend to be more careful with stuff you have to pay for or at least (Hopefully) when you know its value.

A pipe dream would be every OHIP covered person gets a year end statement:

Dear OHIP member, During the last 12 months the following amounts have been logged against your account

Date. Procedure Cost

XX

XX

......................... Total $ XYZ

You have contributed YZ and other taxpayers paid the rest.

We suggest you go on a diet, stop drinking and smoking.

Get vaxxed and wear a mask.
 
To the best of my knowledge we generally are paying substantially less than the US. My own meds cost 2-3X more in the US and would amount to a car payment. I might find some data to link to later when I am less busy
A little travel in rural USA will have you finding donation pickle jars at corner stores."please help with little Timmy's cancer treatment"
 

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