N3WMAN
Well-known member
Once again Honda is showing the age of its current sport bike lineup.
Anyone who doesn't get the Aprilia over this is a fool.
Anyone who doesn't get the Aprilia over this is a fool.
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Honda CBR 1000 RR SP
- Thread starter lator-illa
- Start date
lator-illa
Well-known member
I wish they'd release a model with more letters. It sounds too plain as is.
The RSV4 is the better bike, but I'm interested to see what Honda does with their new V4 superbike (I think they're supposed to show it off soon). Actually, both Yamaha and Honda are supposed to replace their superbikes in the next year or so, and I'd probably wait to see what they're going to do before buying. I also can't fit on an RSV4...at least not comfortably.
Can you show me an objective (in your opinion) comparison of all bikes in that class? I'm interested to see what sorts of times non-biased riders can get on all bikes.
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Shaman
Well-known member
Have you ridden one? I've seen numerous people over 6' that fit on them fine. It's more comfortable than my 06 GSX-R was. One thing that might convince you otherwise is that the farther back you put your butt, the thinner the padding is, so that you can feel what the bike is doing on a track. Up closer to the tank, the seat is quite thick and comfortable.
If you're talking about track times, the RSV4 is quicker in about 9/10ths of the tests than anything stock around a circuit. Usually the S1000RR or the euro-version ZX10R is up there challenging it, sometimes the Panigale (in one test the R was a little quicker). I think that all depends on the circuit, too... if you went to a really high speed circuit, one would think that the bikes with a bit more power could take advantage of the long sections. Then again, the RSV4 has an uncanny knack of both turning well AND with stability, something I don't get out of my GSX-Rs, especially the 1000 which likes to dance over the hill through 15 at 'bogie.
FWIW, in the Sport Rider test, both the Honda and the RSV4 beat the rest of the bikes at ... erhm... was it Chuckwalla? Can't recall.
I missed buying a 2012 APRC bike in Toronto area which was full tracked-kitted with spares by an hour. Still upset about that.
M
Marinoni
Guest
why does every sportbike thread on here that you chime in on turn into an aprilia circle jerk ?? give it a rest for christsakes !!
Shaman
Well-known member
a) because me being a fan doesn't change the facts
b) you'll notice it wasn't just me
c) I went through exactly the same purchase decision, since I really like the CBR
d) methinks thou doth protest o'ermuch
lator-illa
Well-known member
bitter much?
for best bang for the buck in terms of features and performance, why wouldn't you go with the Aprilia? But hey if you want to spend the same amount of money on a lesser bike..by all means
Negative, I haven't met anyone bonkers enough to let me have a go. I'm about 6'3ish, but with a longer than normal torso, so seat-to-bar length (and where the windscreen is, etc) seems to be the limiting factor. Just from sitting on it at some bike shows, my first thought was 'this feels...wrong'. Sitting on the BMW or Ducati felt more natural, but that's just initial impressions.
If you're talking about track times, the RSV4 is quicker in about 9/10ths of the tests than anything stock around a circuit. Usually the S1000RR or the euro-version ZX10R is up there challenging it, sometimes the Panigale (in one test the R was a little quicker). I think that all depends on the circuit, too... if you went to a really high speed circuit, one would think that the bikes with a bit more power could take advantage of the long sections. Then again, the RSV4 has an uncanny knack of both turning well AND with stability, something I don't get out of my GSX-Rs, especially the 1000 which likes to dance over the hill through 15 at 'bogie.
FWIW, in the Sport Rider test, both the Honda and the RSV4 beat the rest of the bikes at ... erhm... was it Chuckwalla? Can't recall.
I missed buying a 2012 APRC bike in Toronto area which was full tracked-kitted with spares by an hour. Still upset about that.
Different circuits and riders will produce different results, but I've found that normally the same bikes appear in roughly the same places over and over again.
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_1209_2012_literbike_comparison/ @ Chuckwalla
Lap times
Aprilia: 1:53.01
BMW: 1:52.02
Ducati: 1:53.40
Honda: 1:52.44
Kawasaki: 1:51.74
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/9/13481/Motorcycle-Article/2012-Superbike-Smackdown-IX-Track.aspx @ Thunderhill Raceway
Aprilia: 1:58.27, 1:54.65
BMW: 1:58.11, 1:54.51
Ducati: 1:59.31, 1:55.41
Honda: 1:56.24, 1:54.20
Kawasaki: 1:57.31, 1:53.98
KTM: 1:59.47, 1:55.39
MV Agusta: 1:59.56, 1:57.18
Suzuki: 1:57.42, 1:55.10
Yamaha: 1:59.66, 1:55.44
Fastest times: Kawasaki (Siglin), Honda (Waheed).
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/08/03/2012-superbike-shootout-by-the-numbers/ @ MMP
West Course
Aprilia: 1:34.94
EBR: 1:35.45
Ducati: 1:35.31
MV Agusta: 1:37.10
Honda: 1:36.58
East Course
BMW: 1:40.93
Honda: 1:40.74
Kawasaki: 1:41.57
Suzuki: 1:41.22
Yamaha: 1:41.84
Blah blah blah, whatever. In the European bikes, it seems that the Aprilia and BMW seem to win most times. As far as Japanese bikes go, it seems to be between Honda and Kawasaki. As far as they all compare, it seems that if you get the top-end European models (BMW HP4, RSV4 Factory, etc), you can pretty much walk all over the Japanese bikes, but for their normal level stuff, the Japanese bikes are close. As with anything, it's going to be mostly down to the rider anyway. You know, unless Honda is paying ALL of these magazines to boost their numbers.
I'm not sure how there isn't more enthusiasm in this thread for this incredible bike.
Honda was ballsy enough to build a true no nonsense street legal race bike and offer it to the general public for a song! Somehow this thread has become what kind of badge you can buy for that money and not what kind of bike.
For $17k I couldnt even buy a left over 2012 stock bare bones panigale.
That's like buying a porsche boxster for more money than a ZR1 because you get to have a porsche instead of a Chevrolet.
Who cares about ABS? I don't see anyone using it on a racetrack, I've never felt the need for it. If you are a newb and need it then sure it's an issue but then this isn't your bike anyway. I'm sure eventually they will cater to the ABS crowd but I wouldn't buy one.
If traction is such a big deal (which it isn't) just spend $800 on a Bazzaz TC/QS (not sure how someone quoted $3k in this thread)
"Hand picked pistons" would lead me to believe that they have gone to the effort of balancing the engines rotating assembly. They've massaged the head, etc while thy were at it. This Is HUGE!
This is what you are getting that the other bikes don't offer for anywhere near this kind of money:
*im not sure if they are using actual race components or OEM but I would imagine they used the real stuff.
Reworked motor $4500
Ohlins suspension $4500
Lightened subframe $500
Brembo Rotors and master $1200
Exhaust $?
I own a shop that does nothing but build racebikes day in and day out and I would buy this thing in a heartbeat because I would cost me three times the premium over stock to build one.
Honda was ballsy enough to build a true no nonsense street legal race bike and offer it to the general public for a song! Somehow this thread has become what kind of badge you can buy for that money and not what kind of bike.
For $17k I couldnt even buy a left over 2012 stock bare bones panigale.
That's like buying a porsche boxster for more money than a ZR1 because you get to have a porsche instead of a Chevrolet.
Who cares about ABS? I don't see anyone using it on a racetrack, I've never felt the need for it. If you are a newb and need it then sure it's an issue but then this isn't your bike anyway. I'm sure eventually they will cater to the ABS crowd but I wouldn't buy one.
If traction is such a big deal (which it isn't) just spend $800 on a Bazzaz TC/QS (not sure how someone quoted $3k in this thread)
"Hand picked pistons" would lead me to believe that they have gone to the effort of balancing the engines rotating assembly. They've massaged the head, etc while thy were at it. This Is HUGE!
This is what you are getting that the other bikes don't offer for anywhere near this kind of money:
*im not sure if they are using actual race components or OEM but I would imagine they used the real stuff.
Reworked motor $4500
Ohlins suspension $4500
Lightened subframe $500
Brembo Rotors and master $1200
Exhaust $?
I own a shop that does nothing but build racebikes day in and day out and I would buy this thing in a heartbeat because I would cost me three times the premium over stock to build one.
. Then again, the RSV4 has an uncanny knack of both turning well AND with stability, something I don't get out of my GSX-Rs, especially the 1000 which likes to dance over the hill through 15 at 'bogie.
.
And you were riding them both at the same level?
Shaman
Well-known member
No. But I can definitely confer the difference. Maybe the Suzuki can be set up a bit better... I'm not really complaining, the dancing around is subjective, not objective, the bike never moves off line when it does it. Confidence matters, however.
Either way, Aprilia will likely be out of business in 24 months. No one is buying them, anywhere.
This CBR is just symptom of how bad the world motorcycle markets are, Europe is down over 80%, even Japan is down 60%.
Aside from the BMW niche for the 0.1%, we're going to see less and less impressive bikes.
Shaman
Well-known member
It's a great bike. But the europeans have moved on... about 4 years ago. So it's only fair to compare. And seeing how this Honda is mostly a 6 year old design with some farkles, it's definitely not something to be excited about, imho. I doubt anyone that is in the market is actually FASTER on any other bike than this, but ...
But you could buy a 2013 RSV4-R (!ABS) with a full Akrapovic system and the race map. You could also probably find a S1000RR for that price but they'd tack on about $1500 in freight and prep.
I do. I've crashed twice on the street over the years, because I've locked the front. Once in the cold and once in the rain (at Deal's Gap... ugh) Ride supersports with strong brakes and it'll probably happen to you at some point... maybe you won't crash. The penalty is something like 5 pounds and a slightly softer brake lever these days... no other downsides.
BTW, the F4R(R), S1000RR, ZX10R and Panigale have ABS as well.
Not very useful on the race track. However, it will brake more consistently than you will. Even the pros have said that they could outbrake modern systems, but not every time, and not by any useful amount. New ABS is the cat's. On the street I will never buy another bike without it, I think.
You say that because you haven't tried it. It works. The more you lean on it, the better it works. The best part is that you can turn it down low with the good ones, so that it will catch you when you use it as intended - to get on the throttle earlier, harder and with more confidence. Look what happened to Lorenzo when his system failed in GP this year...
Bazzaz' stuff is rudimentary compared to what's on the Panigale, new MV, RSV4, S1000RR. It's more like Kawasaki's (which also works pretty well, granted) but less sophisticated in most ways - and before you chime in otherwise, I'm quite aware that you can set up specific TCS values in each gear and at specific RPMs, but it isn't nearly as smart as the systems mentioned which both have more sensor information and do pre-emptive prediction.
Remains to be seen. If it makes ZX10R/S1000RR power, I predict it will kick either of them out of the ring at most tracks. But I don't think it will...
If you really want a Honda, then yes. I won't argue the point at all.
The only reason that I'm not picking up this bike is that it would be wasted on the street, hence the 13' RR. But, for the 3K diff I might just do it.
Shaman
Well-known member
Uh... no. They are struggling like every other manuf. except Ducati and BMW, but not that hard. Lest we forget, Aprilia sells a pile of premium scooters in other parts of the world.
Aprilia North America (the distributor) is another question... they're idiots of an impressive calibre.
FWIW in my circle of riding friends that I regularly interact with (call it maybe 100 people), two of them bought Tuono v4s and one a RSV4 this year. If you tally up all the (new and old) Aprilias in that group of people, it would total about 11. That's 1 out of 10 people I know, in case math isn't your strong suit. I'd have to say that rumours of their demise are quite questionable.
Now if Gary would just sell his RS250 to me...
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M
Marinoni
Guest
the italians should stick to what they know best : making wine, and pizza
leave the design and manufacture proper reliable sportbikes to the people with engineering degrees
leave the design and manufacture proper reliable sportbikes to the people with engineering degrees
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Why hate on this bike? Just 'cause the price?
There will be buyers, for sure...
There will be buyers, for sure...
But you could buy a 2013 RSV4-R (!ABS) with a full Akrapovic system and the race map. You could also probably find a S1000RR for that price but they'd tack on about $1500 in freight and prep.
Your argument is that you could use electronic rider aids instead of suspension and brakes? Well I guess if that's where you are at then that's all good and well. Me and most everyone I deal with are at the point that they need suspension and brakes to be faster.
I've been riding for 20 years and its always been super sports.
I would rather have a great braking system that lets me modulate my brakes and lets me control the bike.
I've also never washed the front on the street.
If you feel that you need it then once again that's good and well, everyone I know that can adequately utilize a liter bike does not need it.
I believe you are a little out of your depth on this one.
We have 2 1199s, 1 BMW and 2 Apes that we are working extensively on right now (read motor builds, etc). I also own an ape with a built motor, all carbon with big brake upgrade, etc (sure as hell didn't cost me $17k). I assure you I have better knowledge of the bikes in question that you give me credit for.
Please no more with the electronic bondo!
If you need more than Bazzaz then that's your issue, not everyone does.
In short if you want/need electronics and brand prestige it's not for you.. If you think that what you see on WSBK has anything in common with what your local dealer will sell you this bike isnt for you.
If you want a limited production street legal racebike that is 90% of a CSBK superbike for a pittance this is your wet dream.
I am going to add one to my collection no questions asked.
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