Hello Taxman! Toronto raising property tax by 10-16% | GTAMotorcycle.com

Hello Taxman! Toronto raising property tax by 10-16%

Mad Mike

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Ouch! For those who live inside the city boundary, break out another stack for your city gov't. City of Toronto announced it needs a 10.5% increase, up to 16% if they can't get a federal bailout. $17B in operating, $50B in the capital budget.

The budget 10 years ago was $9B operating and $18.6 capital budget.

TTC was $365Million in 2014, $2.5BILLION for 2024.
Cops: $657M in 2014, $1.35B (double) for 2024.
Social support: $2.6B in 2014, $4.75B this year.

I hope this spending is not contagious. I see my city blowing high dough these days, but nothing like Toronto.
 
I'm sure if one place does it, they all will follow suit.
 
F'ng disaster, it already went up last year. I'm not seeing any improvements or QOL being better here for the extra costs. (or ever)
Just my limited perspective.

Totally agree @mimico_polak middle class getting raped.
 
sburns said:
F'ng disaster, it already went up last year. I'm not seeing any improvements or QOL being better here for the extra costs. (or ever)
Just my limited perspective.

Totally agree @mimico_polak middle class getting raped.
Click to expand...
Well, you do have a lot to be thankful this year:
  • less congestion in High Park with the car ban
  • you achieved a new record of 8000+ employees on the Sunshine list (with more than 200 city employees earning $250K or more a year.
  • your bike lanes will get plowed before sidewalks and streets with new funding
  • you also made a lot of happy hoteliers by paying an average of $255/night for shelter space (tip to Toronto: use Trivago, I just found 60 places, about 500 rooms that are less than $125/night)
  • for a paltry $25m, the city recovered a $3m boring machine
  • you secured 5 FIFA 2026 World Cup soccer games for a measly $290M
I think there may be more.
 
Missed renaming Dundas St, that’s a victory .

Police services board initiated a record payroll

Police also ordered a new 500k riot truck


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
Toronto has had a free ride for a very long time - you can thank politicians who for decades were too scared to try and keep up with surrounding municipalities. Not counting the 1.3% increase for inflation, the number I heard being bandied about was 9% - that means an above and beyond increase of 7.7%. I for one don't mind paying my fair share if it means better services and repairing municipal infrastructure.
 
TK4 said:
Toronto has had a free ride for a very long time - you can thank politicians who for decades were too scared to try and keep up with surrounding municipalities. Not counting the 1.3% increase for inflation, the number I heard being bandied about was 9% - that means an above and beyond increase of 7.7%. I for one don't mind paying my fair share if it means better services and repairing municipal infrastructure.
Click to expand...

For fear of being the second voice of dissent, 100% this.

Toronto has the second lowest property tax figures in Ontario. For decades governments & mayors too afraid to raise taxes at the amounts they should have been to run the city property, for fear of not getting reelected or not keeping the electorate happy, have undercut the budgets.

Now the chickens have finally come home to roost when there's a new mayor who realizes how ****** the city is and is willing to actually make those tough decisions.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

These cities have the lowest property taxes in southern Ontario

Prospective homeowners looking to settle in southern Ontario might want to consider how much property taxes will set them back before staking their claim on a dream home.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca
These are five cities in southern Ontario with the lowest property tax rates:

  • Markham, 0.645017%
  • Toronto, 0.666274%
  • Richmond Hill, 0.670650%
  • Vaughan, 0.682784%
  • Milton, 0.703456%
And these are the five cities with the highest property tax rates:

  • Orangeville, 1.353041%
  • Oshawa, 1.325625%
  • Barrie, 1.254822%
  • Brock, 1.232517%
  • Clarington, 1.174555%
Toronto homeowners have been enjoying these low rates I'm sure, but it's like just charging stuff to your credit card for a decade or two, ignoring the statements coming in the mail every month and just paying the minimums, hoping the problem goes away when in reality the cards are maxxed out and the house of cards is about to fall.
 
PrivatePilot said:
For fear of being the second voice of dissent, 100% this.

Toronto has the second lowest property tax figures in Ontario. For decades governments & mayors too afraid to raise taxes at the amounts they should have been to run the city property, for fear of not getting reelected or not keeping the electorate happy, have undercut the budgets.

Now the chickens have finally come home to roost when there's a new mayor who realizes how ****** the city is and is willing to actually make those tough decisions.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

These cities have the lowest property taxes in southern Ontario

Prospective homeowners looking to settle in southern Ontario might want to consider how much property taxes will set them back before staking their claim on a dream home.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca
These are five cities in southern Ontario with the lowest property tax rates:

  • Markham, 0.645017%
  • Toronto, 0.666274%
  • Richmond Hill, 0.670650%
  • Vaughan, 0.682784%
  • Milton, 0.703456%
And these are the five cities with the highest property tax rates:

  • Orangeville, 1.353041%
  • Oshawa, 1.325625%
  • Barrie, 1.254822%
  • Brock, 1.232517%
  • Clarington, 1.174555%
Toronto homeowners have been enjoying these low rates I'm sure, but it's like just charging stuff to your credit card for a decade or two, ignoring the statements coming in the mail every month and just paying the minimums, hoping the problem goes away when in reality the cards are maxxed out and the house of cards is about to fall.
Click to expand...
These numbers are interesting, but they in no way represent tax rate differences, nor do they represent high and low taxes - they are a mill rate, only.

To make it easier to grasp, let’s look at Barrie vs Toronto. If a 1200sq townhouse in Toronto is worth $1.5m with $3800 tax in Toronto it might be worth $700k and have property tax of $3800 in Barrie. Simply the fair share of the homeowners municipal budget.

1704936036971.jpeg

Now, if you had 2 identical cities with similar real estate values, the diff in mill rate would be meaningful.

Torontos problem is less about the collected tax and more about frivolous spending and low value for services purchased.

Some examples are closed procurements that are tied to union support, these contracts are typically 30% more expensive than open market tenders. Boondoggling studies, inefficient workforce, redundant bureacracies, conferences, civic renaming exercises, place and rip of park fixtures and bike lanes ( the list goes on).
 
Mad Mike said:
Torontos problem is less about the collected tax and more about frivolous spending and low value for services purchased.

Some examples are closed procurements that are tied to union support, these contracts are typically 30% more expensive than open market tenders. Boondoggling studies, inefficient workforce, redundant bureacracies, conferences, civic renaming exercises, place and rip of park fixtures and bike lanes ( the list goes on).
Click to expand...

Citations on any of those claims?

The "find effeciencies and stop the gravy train!" song and dance is fine and all that, but isn't often the big picture reality when you actually open the books and start looking at the numbers. I'd tend to believe Chow right now vs any claims that just cutting some of the gravy would have prevented all of this from the onset.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Citations on any of those claims?

The "find effeciencies and stop the gravy train!" song and dance is fine and all that, but isn't often the big picture reality when you actually open the books and start looking at the numbers. I'd tend to believe Chow right now vs any claims that just cutting some of the gravy would have prevented all of this from the onset.
Click to expand...
Thankfully that’s not my circus, I’m happy observing from the perimeter.

If my city catches Toronto’s cold, I’ll go live happily ever after watching people argue about Biden and Trump as the warm sea rises around me.
 
Mad Mike said:
These numbers are interesting, but they in no way represent tax rate differences, nor do they represent high and low taxes - they are a mill rate, only.

To make it easier to grasp, let’s look at Barrie vs Toronto. If a 1200sq townhouse in Toronto is worth $1.5m with $3800 tax in Toronto it might be worth $700k and have property tax of $3800 in Barrie. Simply the fair share of the homeowners municipal budget.

View attachment 65461

Now, if you had 2 identical cities with similar real estate values, the diff in mill rate would be meaningful.

Torontos problem is less about the collected tax and more about frivolous spending and low value for services purchased.

Some examples are closed procurements that are tied to union support, these contracts are typically 30% more expensive than open market tenders. Boondoggling studies, inefficient workforce, redundant bureacracies, conferences, civic renaming exercises, place and rip of park fixtures and bike lanes ( the list goes on).
Click to expand...
It seems everyone wants to play catch up at the same time. Why not? The feds will let the budget balance itself. Ford & Company are in the land business. Chow couldn't spell budget if you gave her a dictionary and a box of crayons.

It's the fault of the voters for thinking everything is free and getting suckered into thinking they're special and deserve. We should have treated budgets like the Americans treat gun restrictions. Raise hell if it doesn't make sense on every point.

I have little respect for government workers but I'm sure there are exceptions. Employees of any organization IMO have a duty to offer suggestions for efficiency. The point being John Tory campaigned on privatizing garbage collection. He bailed out of the plan when the workers came up with ideas to cut costs. Why did they wait until their jobs were on the line?

Government workers should get salalries and perks similar to the private sector. Wage freeze them until things are in balance. No right to strike. They have no competition. If home owners have to suck up a 10% increase civil servants can take a bit of a hit too.

Nothing is going to happen until we change our justice and civil systems to make any of the above happen.

Think about it. If we had better drivers we'd have few collisions, fewer traffic jams, reduced medical costs, police available for more pressing needs. Apply that to other intertwined services. Fix that.

Someone said our increase should be 20%. Make it 30% if that gets people riled up enough to riot in the streets.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. The feeding frenzy will continue and spread until we elect honest intellegent politicians. That won't happen as long as people vote for the ones that give out the biggest bags of candy.

People are angry today and wil be taking it out on bus drivers and anyone else they can. When people can't afford their house or rent they will be mad.

Want to pour gas on the fire? End charities, soup kitchens and food banks. Let the reality of failed government policies become obvious. it won't be safe on the streets.

1984
 
PrivatePilot said:
For fear of being the second voice of dissent, 100% this.

Toronto has the second lowest property tax figures in Ontario. For decades governments & mayors too afraid to raise taxes at the amounts they should have been to run the city property, for fear of not getting reelected or not keeping the electorate happy, have undercut the budgets.

Now the chickens have finally come home to roost when there's a new mayor who realizes how ****** the city is and is willing to actually make those tough decisions.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

These cities have the lowest property taxes in southern Ontario

Prospective homeowners looking to settle in southern Ontario might want to consider how much property taxes will set them back before staking their claim on a dream home.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca
These are five cities in southern Ontario with the lowest property tax rates:

  • Markham, 0.645017%
  • Toronto, 0.666274%
  • Richmond Hill, 0.670650%
  • Vaughan, 0.682784%
  • Milton, 0.703456%
And these are the five cities with the highest property tax rates:

  • Orangeville, 1.353041%
  • Oshawa, 1.325625%
  • Barrie, 1.254822%
  • Brock, 1.232517%
  • Clarington, 1.174555%
Toronto homeowners have been enjoying these low rates I'm sure, but it's like just charging stuff to your credit card for a decade or two, ignoring the statements coming in the mail every month and just paying the minimums, hoping the problem goes away when in reality the cards are maxxed out and the house of cards is about to fall.
Click to expand...

Mad Mike said:
These numbers are interesting, but they in no way represent tax rate differences, nor do they represent high and low taxes - they are a mill rate, only.

To make it easier to grasp, let’s look at Barrie vs Toronto. If a 1200sq townhouse in Toronto is worth $1.5m with $3800 tax in Toronto it might be worth $700k and have property tax of $3800 in Barrie. Simply the fair share of the homeowners municipal budget.

View attachment 65461

Now, if you had 2 identical cities with similar real estate values, the diff in mill rate would be meaningful.

Torontos problem is less about the collected tax and more about frivolous spending and low value for services purchased.

Some examples are closed procurements that are tied to union support, these contracts are typically 30% more expensive than open market tenders. Boondoggling studies, inefficient workforce, redundant bureacracies, conferences, civic renaming exercises, place and rip of park fixtures and bike lanes ( the list goes on).
Click to expand...
We've already gone over this over and over and over, go back and look at the old posts from the last 10-20 years.
 
Mad Mike said:
These numbers are interesting, but they in no way represent tax rate differences, nor do they represent high and low taxes - they are a mill rate, only.

To make it easier to grasp, let’s look at Barrie vs Toronto. If a 1200sq townhouse in Toronto is worth $1.5m with $3800 tax in Toronto it might be worth $700k and have property tax of $3800 in Barrie. Simply the fair share of the homeowners municipal budget.

View attachment 65461

Now, if you had 2 identical cities with similar real estate values, the diff in mill rate would be meaningful.

Torontos problem is less about the collected tax and more about frivolous spending and low value for services purchased.

Some examples are closed procurements that are tied to union support, these contracts are typically 30% more expensive than open market tenders. Boondoggling studies, inefficient workforce, redundant bureacracies, conferences, civic renaming exercises, place and rip of park fixtures and bike lanes ( the list goes on).
Click to expand...

I've wondered about this too. My father lives in east Scarborough and I am in Pickering. Both our homes have about equal value on today's inflated market at about $1.2M and our lot sizes are pretty close to the same as well - so same sh1t different pile.

My property taxes are quite near double his. They get more services than we do but also have a much larger tax base as well.
 
Baggsy said:
We've already gone over this over and over and over, go back and look at the old posts from the last 10-20 years.
Click to expand...

I've had discussions on property tax with plenty of people over the years, not many taxpayers can explain how municipal taxes are calculated.

This is one of the things that drives me CRAZY about our education system is it's almost completely devoid of civics.

It's sad, if people don't understand the basics of governance and taxation, how can they possibly make an educated decision that considers those things when it comes time to vote?

Remember, politicians prefer their supporters to be dumb. I wish more Canadians would quit helping politicians.
 
I find discussing services for your buck is different to everyone . My kids have moved on , I don’t need the arenas we have to rival maple leaf gardens . We have awesome acreage of soccer pitches I don’t use . But others do , and that’s ok. I’d like harbour improvement, more municipal pools . Maybe some public parking in Bronte . Our town council fight among themselves for what our constituents want ( supposedly) . But at least we got the mill rate / tax base right . We get a lot of developers money , but we pay a decent freight rate ourselves and don’t see double digit jumps .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
No matter how much we pay in taxes, sadly they don't cover more than 1/3rd of the costs in the budget usually when you look at different budgets
So without other subsidies from prov and fed govt that come also through things like gas tax, income tax, sales tax, etc the municipalities would just fall apart. Now add on that undertaxing at the municipal level for a city that has tons of service and tons of infrastructure to cover and you end up in the current situation.

We had a similar situation with our condo corp, 40 y old build, with an underground garage, they kept the condo fees ultra low for YEARS. My wife
joined the board and realized that we need to get the underground garage fixed, it was a 6 million ish project, reserve fund wasnt funded enough. They had to do increases, our condo fees have basically doubled in the time ive lived here. But until new blood was on the board, no one was willing to approve these increases. Had they done way smaller increases back in the day, we wouldnt be here but we waited until something was due to do it so we all "suffer"
 
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