Good Samaritan Road Cleaning

[shahfaisal]

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Great idea hats off to you good sir.. But ya city won't like to be involved in general(won't say it out right) due to liability issues best bet is to do our doodoo and get out..

Emergency reflector pylons from the car as if m changing a tire. In and out and I never did anything of that sort I thought my tire was flat..

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[mongol777]

While you at it - take care of wide lanes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hki37NCesLE

 

[infernobuster]

You cant legally obstruct or stop the flow of traffic, regardless of whatever colour vest or pylons you put down.

What happens if you cause an accident between 2 vehicles ? You are liable at that point.

FYI, but i do recall the riders from Barrie area a few years ago renting out a street sweeper to do a street clean.

 

[slowbird]

okay so what happens by the time you get back there on your bike?...You are expecting clean road/corner and in the time between you did this work and came back on your bike some dumbass comes by, hits the shoulder and shoots gravel all over the place....don't get me wrong, I think its a cool idea, but be careful

I'm not too concerned about the conditions when I am there. It just bothers me to see the roads like that. It can cause an accident.
If I can make it safer even for 1 person then I'm content.

It is legal to park your vehicle in a place where it is legally allowed to park. It is legal to carry a broom.

Don't drop orange cones or anything official-looking ... just make sure your vehicle is not parked in a blind spot and that YOU are not sitting in a blind spot. If you insist on putting down any sort of warning triangle, use the kind that comes in your vehicle's emergency kit - not anything official-looking.

If a car comes while you are sweeping, just get out of the way.

Be in and out quick - take care of the issue in a minute or two and get out of there. I wouldn't bother trying to go through official channels unless the mess is so big that there is no way you could do it yourself in a few minutes.

It's a whole different ball game when the city is dealing with contractors, employees, etc.

For something like this, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Not that I think anyone would complain about it unless you were spending considerable time at it.

I agree. This and what some others on this thread have said makes more sense then callling around to municipal offices trying to find who to talk to and asking permission to do a good deed.
I'd definitly try and keep it as unofficial as possible. I know I'm not employed as a street cleaner and I'm not trying to impersonate one.

I'm just trying to save someone the money/pain that a crash might cause them.

You cant legally obstruct or stop the flow of traffic, regardless of whatever colour vest or pylons you put down.

What happens if you cause an accident between 2 vehicles ? You are liable at that point.

FYI, but i do recall the riders from Barrie area a few years ago renting out a street sweeper to do a street clean.

Absolutely. As I have mentioned, I have no intention of blocking any traffic and will not do anything that will cause any traffic interference.
I won't be standing in the middle of the road on a blind corner sweeping. The way I have it planned is more of a "sweep-and-run" then an unoffical road block or a contraflow.

I can think of one corner (I can't remember the name of the road but it's a little south of River rd) that is a 90 degree bend with a house right on the corner and the road is always full of gravel. Alot of gravel. Standing on that corner I'd have a clear veiw of any incoming traffic coming from both directions.
I'd park my vehicle on the shoulder. Hop out and sweep the debris off the road. (walk off the road as soon as I see an incoming vehicle)...and when I'm done I'd leave.

 

[drumstyx]

I used to live on Franklyn street in Shelburne. It's a nice town, but the sand use is out of this world. Even my bicycle couldn't keep much traction in a turn.

As a side note, I love the country roads up there; for the most part not more than 20 minutes from some real nice roads.

 

[slowbird]

I used to live on Franklyn street in Shelburne. It's a nice town, but the sand use is out of this world. Even my bicycle couldn't keep much traction in a turn.

As a side note, I love the country roads up there; for the most part not more than 20 minutes from some real nice roads.

You're not kidding about the sand! Even after the snow melts and the temperatures rise I might riding on the dunes on my street until I reach HY 10.

...and yeah...the roads are great, Nice quiet town, Shelburne.

 

[Roomie]

My folks live very close to there. Your cops are like hawks coming into town and the sand is completely unreal. That said I'll be riding up that way for sure this year

 

[slowbird]

My folks live very close to there. Your cops are like hawks coming into town and the sand is completely unreal. That said I'll be riding up that way for sure this year

Hahaha...it still surprises me that a small town like Shelburne has it's own Police force...and yeah they are fierce with their speed traps. My Fiancee got booked our first month their.
Couple that with the OPP detachment at 10 and 89 and you've got alot of Ichy radar gun trigger fingers.

 

[Irocian]

Good on you Kramer nice to see someone thinking of others.

 

[knucklesound]

Hey man- I'm in Mono and i've stuck a broom in the car and gone out multiple times last year and swept spots that accumulate gravel.
After one of the guys on here posted about his lowside turning onto Mono Centre from Airport (can't be bothered looking for that thread atm) near the end of the riding season i decided to write to all the town/mpp/public works people and ask very politely if they could make a point of keeping the roads safe for motorcyclists. Told them how i'd swept a bunch of times but it would be great if they could have workers pay close attention to specific corners and turns (which i named and described problem/details for them). I even sent a copy of the pics from here to illustrate the point.
The mayor, and several others were surprisingly quick to reply and assured me that they'd discuss at the next Public Works meeting, and in Council in October.
Got a follow-up email out of the blue from Deputy Mayor Ken McGhee at the start of January letting me know that Scott Burns was the new director of Public Works- and he'd be the guy to send any concerns about Dufferin county road issues this year. I was very impressed that he actually took the time to let me know about the change and how to get results fast if i see an issue.
No one suggested any danger or told me not to sweep anywhere either- and they all seemed very cool and helpful to be honest.
I did feel a bit ghey sweeping up with my big *** bush broom and snow shovel as cars drove past, but i don't want to ****ing spill there either- so it is wasn't just a purely altruistic action on my part.
Not sure if the roads you are concerned about are under the same jurisdiction as Mono Centre/Hockley, so i'm not sure if Scott Burns is your guy too... it can't hurt to email Shelburne's Mayor, etc and mention specific areas of concern.
directorofpublicworks@dufferincounty.ca.

 

[Brian P]

^^ THANK YOU for both your own actions and interacting with the town council on this!

 

[Griffin]

Stop being such a polite Canadian. If you want to do it out of the goodness of your own heart then just do it. The less government/law involvement, the better.

Well said.

I don't understand some of the concerns some people have about this. Would you people not stop to pick up a piece of lumber lying in the roadway and remove it? How is sweeping sand any different?

It is legal to park your vehicle in a place where it is legally allowed to park. It is legal to carry a broom.

Don't drop orange cones or anything official-looking ... just make sure your vehicle is not parked in a blind spot and that YOU are not sitting in a blind spot. If you insist on putting down any sort of warning triangle, use the kind that comes in your vehicle's emergency kit - not anything official-looking.

If a car comes while you are sweeping, just get out of the way.

Be in and out quick - take care of the issue in a minute or two and get out of there. I wouldn't bother trying to go through official channels unless the mess is so big that there is no way you could do it yourself in a few minutes.

It's a whole different ball game when the city is dealing with contractors, employees, etc.

For something like this, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Not that I think anyone would complain about it unless you were spending considerable time at it.

Again, well said.

And the OP isn't responsible for some inattentive driver crashing. Frankly, if he/she was standing in the middle of the road, sweeping and not moving out of the way, and a car crashed to avoid hitting them, the car driver would be liable for a careless charge, not the person in the roadway.

It's not illegal for a pedestrian to be on a roadway, other than limited access highways. It's not illegal to sweep sand.

Go for it and good for you.

EDIT: I stop and pick stuff off the road all the time. I hadn't thought of sweeping but I am thinking of it now.

 

[kiwi]

Wow!! That serious huh??

I didn't think sweeping the road would be a big deal.

Well, this is North America, And Canada is becoming an extension of the US in terms of litigation etc in my opinion. And Yes, people will complain about anything here. BUT.. do as the above posters (Griffin/Brian P) suggests and you should be right.

Good on you offering to help out though. I used to go up to Shelburne a lot back in 02-05 when a friend lived out that way. Watch out for a couple of the 4 way stops there on the back roads... sometimes its not a 4 way and cars/trucks rock on through!

 

[BuckWild]

Take some photos, provide google map of area, mark specific area with an x or colors.
Write a short letter stating that this is a dangerous hazard that will cause serious harm for drivers and other road users including pedestrians and cyclists. Please note that this letter serves as an official notice and should anyone get injured or property damaged then I will provide this letter to them as proof of notification therefore holding you negligent of the outcome.

I find this is much more effective way of getting things done. They are the first to give you a ticket or send you warning letters, why not take the same approach.

Do you really think they give a damn that you ride a motorcycle and you want them to clean the road for you?

You are doing your part by notifying them and providing photos to make their jobs easier.
If they do not do their jobs that they are paid for then they are negligent.

 

[Griffin]

Take some photos, provide google map of area, mark specific area with an x or colors.
Write a short letter stating that this is a dangerous hazard that will cause serious harm for drivers and other road users including pedestrians and cyclists. Please note that this letter serves as an official notice and should anyone get injured or property damaged then I will provide this letter to them as proof of notification therefore holding you negligent of the outcome.

I find this is much more effective way of getting things done. They are the first to give you a ticket or send you warning letters, why not take the same approach.

Do you really think they give a damn that you ride a motorcycle and you want them to clean the road for you?

You are doing your part by notifying them and providing photos to make their jobs easier.
If they do not do their jobs that they are paid for then they are negligent.

The municipality is not going to be worried about claims against them. Sand on the road in Ontario is not exactly unusual and drivers should expect to find it at any time. The municipality is more likely to be getting complaints if they DON'T sand, not if they don't clean up the sand as fast as some folks want.

All they need to do to protect against any claims is have a policy outlining their road maintenance plan and then reasonably diligently comply with their plan. For example, they may state that they will clean road debris by sweeping the roads once every month, or two, or allow nature to take care of it with rainfall. All would be acceptable and within the norm in Ontario. If they do indicate they're going to clean, they don't need to do it all at once, they just need to use their very limited resources to work away at the task.

Sand on the road is primarily a hazard to motorcylists. For everyone else it's just a mess and therefore not the biggest priority for municipal road maintenance. They are far more worried about fixing potholes which are a major issue for all road users and that occupies most of their resources at this time of year.

I think the best method to ensure that sand hazards that are a concern to a motorcyclist are removed is to advise the municipality of the situation and then do what the OP is suggesting and get a broom and/or shovel out and fix the worst of it.

 

[BuckWild]

The municipality is not going to be worried about claims against them. Sand on the road in Ontario is not exactly unusual and drivers should expect to find it at any time. The municipality is more likely to be getting complaints if they DON'T sand, not if they don't clean up the sand as fast as some folks want.

All they need to do to protect against any claims is have a policy outlining their road maintenance plan and then reasonably diligently comply with their plan. For example, they may state that they will clean road debris by sweeping the roads once every month, or two, or allow nature to take care of it with rainfall. All would be acceptable and within the norm in Ontario. If they do indicate they're going to clean, they don't need to do it all at once, they just need to use their very limited resources to work away at the task.

Sand on the road is primarily a hazard to motorcylists. For everyone else it's just a mess and therefore not the biggest priority for municipal road maintenance. They are far more worried about fixing potholes which are a major issue for all road users and that occupies most of their resources at this time of year.

I think the best method to ensure that sand hazards that are a concern to a motorcyclist are removed is to advise the municipality of the situation and then do what the OP is suggesting and get a broom and/or shovel out and fix the worst of it.

You are incorrect.
A road hazard is a road hazard. I know of the amount of gravel they speak of. It is on the road and in the drive line.
It is unsafe for all.

A well documented letter demonstrates they had knowledge of a road hazard and either they fix it or risk being sued if someone is hurt.
Insurance company would love a copy of said letter.
You also sue the person for negligence not just the city.
Nobody wants that kind of attention. Their boss does not want to be sued because they will all be out of a job.

Who will clean the roads if this guy moves away? It is not our jobs to do this, people make good money doing this job.
We pay taxes. We are not talking about the odd muffler on the road where yes, it's good for anyone to stop and clear the road. This is a constant state of danger. If said motorcyclist had crashed and said bike ripped a minivan in half killing a few kids, what do you think would happen then. What if that biker that low sided killed a pedestrian or a cyclist? Motorcycles become flying objects. It is not a matter of if, it's when.

To the OP, perhaps you can draft a letter, post it here and have a few people email to the proper departments.
I would also send a registered letter.
You may be helping someone else indirectly in the future pay for medical bills, maybe yourself.

 

[Griffin]

You are incorrect.
A road hazard is a road hazard. I know of the amount of gravel they speak of. It is on the road and in the drive line.
It is unsafe for all.

A well documented letter demonstrates they had knowledge of a road hazard and either they fix it or risk being sued if someone is hurt.
Insurance company would love a copy of said letter.
You also sue the person for negligence not just the city.
Nobody wants that kind of attention. Their boss does not want to be sued because they will all be out of a job.

...

You may want to review case law on this. I have. I believe you'll find that I was correct in what I wrote above.

Btw, in most municipalities the employees are provided with immunity and indemnification for acts in good faith so the individual would not be on the hook for any damages, even if you were able to set new legal precedents with your lawsuit against the municipality.

Not that its a big deal either way.

 

[BuckWild]

You may want to review case law on this. I have. I believe you'll find that I was correct in what I wrote above.

Btw, in most municipalities the employees are provided with immunity and indemnification for acts in good faith so the individual would not be on the hook for any damages, even if you were able to set new legal precedents with your lawsuit against the municipality.

Not that its a big deal either way.

As you said in most not all.
I would also include letter to the MP and MPP.
Stuff rolls downhill

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