Generators

[GreyGhost]

A concern or not?

If a huge percentage of the public gets their own generators does it give the grid the excuse to become lax about reliability?

"You should have gotten a generator like everyone else."

Maybe, probably not. They get paid to distribute power, when distribution is down, they are not getting income and incurring expense to repair. Cost benefit could swing to less preventative maintenance (eg. instead of 99% uptime for $x/yr maintenance, allow 95% uptime for $0.7x/yr). I'm not sure what (if anything) governs the required uptime for the grid. Also, given the monopoly, why do they care if they spend x or 0.7x per year? They just markup x and bill us for it so the larger x is the more dollars they have to play with.

 

[mimico_polak]

A concern or not?

If a huge percentage of the public gets their own generators does it give the grid the excuse to become lax about reliability?

"You should have gotten a generator like everyone else."

I don't think so. The big money comes from the commercial sector and that needs steady, safe, and reliable power. The residential sector is a plus.

My new role has got me dealing with the utilities for our project...holy hell...I didn't know what I was getting into.

Plus majority of people are lazy...getting a generator is expensive, and requires maintenance. I'll guarantee that if power goes out, most people won't bother getting the generator out / fired up and connected because 'it'll only be a short while'. After 2 hours or so, a few generators will be heard firing up.

When we had our last power outage I just got the battery powered radio from the garage and ran it to listen and see what's happening.

 

[GreyGhost]

I don't think so. The big money comes from the commercial sector and that needs steady, safe, and reliable power. The residential sector is a plus.

My new role has got me dealing with the utilities for our project...holy hell...I didn't know what I was getting into.

Plus majority of people are lazy...getting a generator is expensive, and requires maintenance. I'll guarantee that if power goes out, most people won't bother getting the generator out / fired up and connected because 'it'll only be a short while'. After 2 hours or so, a few generators will be heard firing up.

When we had our last power outage I just got the battery powered radio from the garage and ran it to listen and see what's happening.

Proper standby generators that exercise weekly, turn on the instant power goes out and get annual maintenance have a lot higher yearly cost than the generator that sits in your garage and is pulled out when required. The garage generator may not use any fuel or need an oil change for multiple years depending on how often you need it. I warm ours up twice a year and use ours every few years if the power is going to be out for 8 hours or more just to ensure things still work as expected.

 

[mimico_polak]

Proper standby generators that exercise weekly, turn on the instant power goes out and get annual maintenance have a lot higher yearly cost than the generator that sits in your garage and is pulled out when required. The garage generator may not use any fuel or need an oil change for multiple years depending on how often you need it. I warm ours up twice a year and use ours every few years if the power is going to be out for 8 hours or more just to ensure things still work as expected.

Yes...but you're not the typical resident. You're more aware and involved in the care and upkeep of the house.

There's a lot of YOU...but a whole lot more of ME...and even more of those that are lazier than me.

Plus...residential is one thing. Multi-family buildings / apartments also need power. So I don't think ALECTRA or THydro is interested in letting their grid reliability slide.

 

[Hardwrkr13]

12kw Champion with the Generlink switch when we built last year. Smaller Champion at our last house. Replace fuel twice a year if not used and change oil depending on use/age.
Would never have a house without the backup ever again. Money well spent if needed.
Less cost/maintenance in long run over the “installed” units and I like having it portable to help someone if need be.

 

[GreyGhost]

12kw Champion with the Generlink switch when we built last year. Smaller Champion at our last house. Replace fuel twice a year if not used and change oil depending on use/age.
Would never have a house without the backup ever again. Money well spent if needed.
Less cost/maintenance in long run over the “installed” units and I like having it portable to help someone if need be.

Why not keep the fuel out of the generator? Have a 5 gallon can that sits beside it. Makes cycling gas a lot easier.

The other positive to your setup is it is easy to swap out the generator. Some family has a standby generac that is ~10 years old and on a maintenance contract. It works maybe 70% of the time. It needs a part that has been backordered for 8 months. Not very impressive for that much money and not easy nor cheap to swap for a new unit.

EDIT:
I'll get a picture next time I go by but there is a house on Old Barrie Road with a skid mount industrial generator installed in front of the house. Probably surplus so why not. Likely diesel so less fuel age issues (although you may need to heat the tank and leave a block heater running all winter). Ugly though.

 

[SunnY S]

A concern or not?

If a huge percentage of the public gets their own generators does it give the grid the excuse to become lax about reliability?

"You should have gotten a generator like everyone else."

I can tell you that the most utilties don't care whether you are connected to the grid or not.

What I can tell you, if if you want to connect to THEIR electrical system, you have to follow all their rules and laws, and pay whatever they ask you to get services to your house (many times they use third party contractors) and pass on the costs.

IF you don't agree, they will tell you they don't care, and you have a choice to go off the grid and source your own power.

 

[SunnY S]

12kw Champion with the Generlink switch when we built last year. Smaller Champion at our last house. Replace fuel twice a year if not used and change oil depending on use/age.
Would never have a house without the backup ever again. Money well spent if needed.
Less cost/maintenance in long run over the “installed” units and I like having it portable to help someone if need be.

Get the champion with the Tri fuel option I mentioned earlier. Hook it up to your BBQ natural gas line when needed.

never have to worry about stale gas, refilling, changing tanks, etc.

 

[GreyGhost]

Get the champion with the Tri fuel option I mentioned earlier. Hook it up to your BBQ natural gas line when needed.

never have to worry about stale gas, refilling, changing tanks, etc.

Have you had good luck with champion multi-fuel? When I was a mosport people beside me had one. It would not run on propane at all. It ran fine on gasoline. Seemed strange to me, if anything, I would expect the opposite.

 

[SunnY S]

Have you had good luck with champion multi-fuel? When I was a mosport people beside me had one. It would not run on propane at all. It ran fine on gasoline. Seemed strange to me, if anything, I would expect the opposite.

no personal experience with the portables, but I can tell you I've hooked up lots of Champion home standby with Propane and NG and they both run just fine.

The portables require to make adjustments according to fuel source, just like we need to for the home standby, I am going to assume the mosport people are following the conversion steps?

 

[GreyGhost]

no personal experience with the portables, but I can tell you I've hooked up lots of Champion home standby with Propane and NG and they both run just fine.

The portables require to make adjustments according to fuel source, just like we need to for the home standby, I am going to assume the mosport people are following the conversion steps?

IIRC it had a gas shutoff valve and a fuel select valve. Tank was on, valves were set correctly, ignition was on, they had fired it on propane the week before. Nfg at mosport. No idea what the issue was. They hadnt brought gasoline as they planned on using propane, a friendly person gave them gas. In hindsight I wish they never got it going. They ran it for 10+ hours.

 

[-Maverick-]

Been reading a lot on generators. California's banning them. They want to see their people suffer. How safe would you all feel running them in the garage with flex pipe run out and away from the garage? I'm envisioning a snow storm situation where it's imperative that the generator stay warm and dry. Amazon sells sections of flex pipe for generators. There shouldn't be any CO leakage if it's a proper fit.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

 

[GreyGhost]

Been reading a lot on generators. California's banning them. They want to see their people suffer. How safe would you all feel running them in the garage with flex pipe run out and away from the garage? I'm envisioning a snow storm situation where it's imperative that the generator stay warm and dry. Amazon sells sections of flex pipe for generators.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

Hell no. Build a louvered generator shed for your situation. Remember, all air that goes out of the garage has to be replaced. If you were to contemplate your plan, I would add a makeup air fan that kept the garage at positive pressure to make sure the exhaust goes out.

 

[-Maverick-]

Get the champion with the Tri fuel option I mentioned earlier. Hook it up to your BBQ natural gas line when needed.

never have to worry about stale gas, refilling, changing tanks, etc.

I'm reading that the propane regulator freezes in cold winter situations...I don't know how true this is. My BBQ works in the winter.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

 

[-Maverick-]

Hell no. Build a louvered generator shed for your situation. Remember, all air that goes out of the garage has to be replaced. If you were to contemplate your plan, I would add a makeup air fan that kept the garage at positive pressure to make sure the exhaust goes out.

I'm looking for the easiest solution for this winter and build a dedicated shed / dog house in the spring. What would the problem be if both garage doors are open a foot and the flex is halfway down the driveway and in the wind? In the automotive trade we run cars for hours with a rubber exhaust hose attached to the garage door. Like 22 bays...with ~ 6 cars running at any given time.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

 

[PrivatePilot]

In a pinch, sheltering a generator is fairly easy. Keep a dollar store tarp on hand and you can build a covered shelter out of whatever you’ve got kicking around at that point - Patio furniture, snow shovels, whatever.

Definitely do not run in an enclosed space. Carbon monoxide is a *****.

 

[SunnY S]

. How safe would you all feel running them in the garage with flex pipe run out and away from the garage?

You are joking right? Right?

Generators aren't snowflakes. On construction sites for years we simply put a piece of plywood over it and a brick on top whenever it rains

It's that simple

 

[-Maverick-]

In a pinch, sheltering a generator is fairly easy. Keep a dollar store tarp on hand and you can build a covered shelter out of whatever you’ve got kicking around at that point - Patio furniture, snow shovels, whatever.

Definitely do not run in an enclosed space. Carbon monoxide is a *****.

As a matter of curiosity, I'm going to order a few sections of the flex pipe seen in the video and run a few CO testers around the connection and in general area.

I have a Rubbermaid shed ready to house it. One of those ones with an upper lid and two swinging doors to vent it. But I'd like to do that in the spring.

Is this idea really so dangerous? I work in this situation every day, all day. At any given time six cars will exhausting through hoses in garage doors.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

 

[-Maverick-]

You are joking right? Right?

Generators aren't snowflakes. On construction sites for years we simply put a piece of plywood over it and a brick on top whenever it rains

It's that simple

Where I live the snowbanks have to be cut down by the township in the winter. One year they were 14 feet high. In a power outage situation with a dedicated generator house it would have to be dug out. I want to avoid that.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.

 

[Wingboy]

Nobody here is going to recommend you do what you are suggesting. DO NOT OPERATE IN AN ENCLOSED SPACE.
Why not just need that warning? Your workplace is probably a lot bigger with more ventilation than your garage. Every winter people die from this very thing.