Gas prices

[PrivatePilot]

Here's the data I found for T&C. Your math is off ToSlow.

Looks like some shenanigans were used as well at one point....


But from what I can see now, they're gone to pure US gallons, so 3.8L/gallon. And the gas prices are in USD.

So, using what looks to be about $7.25/gallon USD average for premium, that comes out to $2.62/L Canadian for premium. Premium right now in my neck of the woods is showing about $1.60/L here.

So, yeah, it's still over $1/L (CAD) more expensive there than here.

Regular at around $6.60/gal there, the math works out to $2.39/L, also basically $1/L (Cad) more expensive than here.

 

[crankcall]

So when we exhaust calculated price of U S vs Imperial gallons in Turks and Caicos can we get the the net price of tea in China ?


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[ToSlow]

So when we exhaust calculated price of U S vs Imperial gallons in Turks and Caicos can we get the the net price of tea in China ?


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

You bored?

 

[killvino]

Here's the data I found for T&C. Your math is off ToSlow.
View attachment 60050
Looks like some shenanigans were used as well at one point....

View attachment 60051
But from what I can see now, they're gone to pure US gallons, so 3.8L/gallon. And the gas prices are in USD.

So, using what looks to be about $7.25/gallon USD average for premium, that comes out to $2.62/L Canadian for premium. Premium right now in my neck of the woods is showing about $1.60/L here.

So, yeah, it's still over $1/L (CAD) more expensive there than here.

Regular at around $6.60/gal there, the math works out to $2.39/L, also basically $1/L (Cad) more expensive than here.

Late to the thread, but pre-covid I went there every year for over 7 years. Never once seen gas prices cheaper than here.
this highlights that, thank you

edit: specifically Provo island not Grand Turk

 

[Mad Mike]

Ah but we "have to" import oil. It's all monopolized. It's great to create demand when you also control the supply of it.

Oh and it's gonna get worse come Apr 1st, biggest joke on all Canadians from our Gov, they are not even hidding how funny it is anymore.

Im hoping April catalyzes an awakening for Canadians. Federal Gov't have a significant responsibility in guiding our economy and prosperity, and the current PM and his crew are punching the economy into dangerous territory. It's a mess it's broken.

• Reckless spending has fueled stupid levels of inflation
• Carbon taxes are pouring gasoline on inflation, particularly problematic to Canadian farmers, and 'Made in Canada' businesses who have bear tax when their foreign counterparts do not. April 1 the Carbon take will be responsible for 16.2Cents a litre, or $11.32 for a fillup on a typical minivan.
• Combating inflation with punishing interest rates enriches the rich, and diminishes almost everyone else's equity and spending.

JT got me early in his career when he assured Canadians 'the budget will balance itself'.

 

[Maniac]

Im hoping April catalyzes an awakening for Canadians.

so are you pro-woke or anti-woke?

 

[Mad Mike]

BTW, Canada is actually 7% lower than the global average. In the data of the roughly 70 countries that have a lower gas price there are maybe 6 ones that I would even consider living in/safe first world/same class as Canada, many of the others I would not even travel to. The ones higher are a mix but most of the first world is in that higher price group.

The global average is not the best way to look at Canadian gas pricing.

Canada is an oil-producing nation and a net exporter. If you look at the 27 major oil producing countries, (>500kbbl/day) Canada has the highest gas prices*, 70% higher than average. If you look at energy net exporters, Canadians pay a price premium of 160% over the average.

*Norway is more expensive, largely because they have a meaningful electric infrastructure and subsidies paid for by oil exports.

 

[Mad Mike]

so are you pro-woke or anti-woke?

I don't know. I woke at 5:30 this morning as usual. I anti-woke for a few seconds this morning after reading a few of the less exciting GTAM posts.

 

[Mad Mike]

Not sure where that was going @ToSlow but.... currency and volume complicate things--maybe where it is off?

US Gallon is 3.78l, Imperial gallon is 4.54l, Canadian exchange today is 1.37 aka 0.73. Your data above is in USD (I have seen that data and confirmed) and while as a British Overseas Territory they may sell Imperial (if selling gallons) your web data has to be checked if it is US gallon based (the math checks out as US gallon for the data---> ). Most data shows Turks around $1.80 USD per litre/$6.80 USD per US Gallon. The Canada average price is $1.218 USD per litre OR $4.60 USD per US Gallon . As noted volume and exchange rates need to be accounted for....

Regardless, April 1 tax increase (if that is where you were going) of 14¢ CDN or roughly 10¢ US per litre will bring Canada almost exactly to the world average for fuel prices (as we are 10¢ below now). We will still be cheaper than most of the first world. At that point the price here will also still be cheaper than The Bahamas, Dominican Republic and Turks and Caicos.

Of course fuel prices go up and down but the above is recent data as your trip is recent. All bets are off for the Easter long weekend.
****
As an aside the difference in US and Imperial gallon gets played with here by the marketing departments of car makers. They quote mileage in l/100km but also in miles per "gallon", but they use Imperial gallons here. So in the US the vehicle gets 30 mpg, the one in Canada is advertised at 36 mpg... just different gallons.

Remember Carbon Tax is 14.21cents, but it's also taxed so it's adding $16.17 to the price of a litre of fuel starting April 1st.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Remember Carbon Tax is 14.21cents, but it's also taxed so it's adding $16.17 to the price of a litre of fuel starting April 1st.

Actually my math is too high not too low.

I factored in adding a 14 cent increase to the current 11 cents. It is increasing TO that, not adding that (my math was actually ~25 cents total). Even with tax on tax I was too high in taxes. And that tax is rebated, I know I make out a head, even after the increase YMMV (pun intended).

SO, in reality Canada will actually still below the world average on April 2nd, still below most of the western and first world. And of course will still continue to be well below the three Caribbean locals the OP thought were cheaper.

There is another 13 cents phased in by 2030 (we do not get rebates on that) but even then most of the developed world has similar increases so we will likely be in about the same ranking.

Consumer level is what matters as it is what we consumers pay. Most oil producing countries that are lower than us at the consumer level are not great places to live. For most of the first world, western world, non **** holes, we are lower at the consumer level. There are some exceptions either way.

 

[backmarkerducati]

So when we exhaust calculated price of U S vs Imperial gallons in Turks and Caicos can we get the the net price of tea in China ?


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

We are giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. Fact checking showed the islands in question have higher (in some cases significantly higher) not lower gas prices. So the assumption is the math was off for the first post due to volume or exchange miscalculations. Just trying to reverse engineer the original math/conclusion to see why it was off. Just an interesting math problem from that perspective, some times in engineering figuring out why the fail is a challenge.

Option 2, it was a dog whistle passive aggressive carbon tax political post using false information with a hope of no fact checking. We will stick with the above assumption as no one would do that on GTAM...

 

[Mad Mike]

So when we exhaust calculated price of U S vs Imperial gallons in Turks and Caicos can we get the the net price of tea in China ?


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

Consumer price for Tea in China is about $14kg (dark tea). Canada is about $35/kg (but we are not net producer of tea).

 

[Mad Mike]

Actually my math is too high not too low.

I factored in adding a 14 cent increase to the current 11 cents. It is increasing TO that, not adding that (my math was actually ~25 cents total). Even with tax on tax I was too high in taxes. And that tax is rebated, I know I make out a head, even after the increase YMMV (pun intended).

SO, in reality Canada will actually still below the world average on April 2nd, still below most of the western and first world. And of course will still continue to be well below the three Caribbean locals the OP thought were cheaper.

There is another 13 cents phased in by 2030 (we do not get rebates on that) but even then most of the developed world has similar increases so we will likely be in about the same ranking.

Consumer level is what matters as it is what we consumers pay. Most oil producing countries that are lower than us at the consumer level are not great places to live. For most of the first world, western world, non **** holes, we are lower at the consumer level. There are some exceptions either way.

I don't think I made my point clear, you can't really compare Canada's retail prices to the world average. About 25 countries, including Canada, produce enough oil to meet their domestic demands, of those countries Canada has the highest pump prices (Except Norway). About 160% higher than the average of oil exporting countries.

All oil exporters except leverage their domestic supply by collecting taxes on exports, but only Canada and Norway extract exorbitant taxes from their citizens.

Lower energy costs are good for everyone.

 

[backmarkerducati]

@Mad Mike It is crystal clear, here is the list of the 76 countries that have cheaper at the pump prices than Canada, in order lowest (Venezuela) to just below Canada (Bangladesh):


Many are still net importers (this is just pump price, not export vs import) but overlay your list of net exporters with first world conditions and tell us the ones you want to live in, be specific to which ones.... On the above list, Canada like living conditions, and net exporters.

In reality there are a handful on the list that are first world that are net exporters (the US as an example, not the only one of course). There are also net exporters on the list not because they produce a huge amount, they just don't consumer more for other bad economic reasons (not good ones) and of course the usual OPEC suspects.

But yeah, our taxes and conditions need to be more like Venezuela and Libya.... Maybe Russia or Saudi Arabia better scratch that itch.

 

[Maniac]

@Mad Mike It is crystal clear, here is the list of the 76 countries that have cheaper at the pump prices than Canada, in order lowest (Venezuela) to just below Canada (Bangladesh):

View attachment 60060
Many are still net importers (this is just pump price, not export vs import) but overlay your list of net exporters with first world conditions and tell us the ones you want to live in, be specific to which ones.... On the above list, Canada like living conditions, and net exporters.

In reality there are a handful on the list that are first world that are net exporters (the US as an example, not the only one of course). There are also net exporters on the list not because they produce a huge amount, they just don't consumer more for other bad economic reasons (not good ones) and of course the usual OPEC suspects.

But yeah, our taxes and conditions need to be more like Venezuela and Libya.... Maybe Russia or Saudi Arabia better scratch that itch.

It's GTAM, sir, stop being reasonable ffs.

 

[Mad Mike]

@Mad Mike It is crystal clear, here is the list of the 76 countries that have cheaper at the pump prices than Canada, in order lowest (Venezuela) to just below Canada (Bangladesh):

View attachment 60060
Many are still net importers (this is just pump price, not export vs import) but overlay your list of net exporters with first world conditions and tell us the ones you want to live in, be specific to which ones.... On the above list, Canada like living conditions, and net exporters.

...

Not sure how relevant the question is -- there are only 3 first-world countries that have domestic oil security, Canada, USA and Norway - kinda small sample size. I've been lucky to see a lot of the world, and live in 6 different countries. My first 20 choices of places to live are all located in Canada and the USA.

I'd never make a decision as to where I live based on the price of gasoline. I'd also never make a leap to say the quality of living is tied to pump taxes in any given country.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Not sure how relevant the question is -- there are only 3 first-world countries that have domestic oil security, Canada, USA and Norway - kinda small sample size. I've been lucky to see a lot of the world, and live in 6 different countries. My first 20 choices of places to live are all located in Canada and the USA.

I'd never make a decision as to where I live based on the price of gasoline. I'd also never make a leap to say the quality of living is tied to pump taxes in any given country.

That is really my point. I believe you noted only Norway was a net energy exporter with higher pump prices than Canada, sounds like only the US is a net energy exporter with lower pump prices that is a close like to Canada. So we are actually right in the middle, second highest, second lowest in that context. The other net energy exporters with lower prices at the pump are all places with a mix of issues, despots, dictators, poverty, human rights, education, freedom, health care, crime, justice, economics, etc.....

In summary, Canada's prices at the pump are lower than most of the developed first and western world. Lower than the global average overall. To your point, smack in the middle of the developed western world that are also net exporters (only USA and Norway).

A lot of the above can be dismissed as simple correlation but in economics there are lots of causation.... Even just starting with Dutch Disease.

 

[Mad Mike]

...So we are actually right in the middle, second highest, second lowest in that context. The other net energy exporters with lower prices at the pump are all places with a mix of issues, despots, dictators, poverty, human rights, education, freedom, health care, crime, justice, economics, etc.....

In summary, Canada's prices at the pump are lower than most of the developed first and western world. Lower than the global average overall. To your point, smack in the middle of the developed western world that are also net exporters (only USA and Norway).

A lot of the above can be dismissed as simple correlation but in economics there are lots of causation.... Even just starting with Dutch Disease.

We're not going to see Dutch Disease here, we pretty much know where the dollars are buries and the likelihood of some magic find on that scale is pretty small.

There is a lot of wealth and goodness for Canadians locked in the ground -- the current regime have demonstrated over and over and over they are not masters of the economy. Imagine if Canada unlocked the export of LNG? Where is the goodness? Here:

- More high paying jobs for Canadians
- Reduced taxes as we enjoy the financial benefits of selling resources
- Reduced worldwide greenhouse emissions as gas replaces oil and coal
- Nut punch for Putin

It's also smart business. Oil and Gas reserves on the scale Canada has will become a depreciating asset as the world switches to other forms of energy. Right now your despots, dictators, poverty, human rights, education, freedom, health care, crime, justice banditos sell dirty oil and coal then chuckle all the way to the bank, while our PM fiddles. JT spends his days blocking pipelines and LNG shipping terminals then spending the money as if we had them in place.

Bring home the riches, take JTs fiddle from him.

 

[Maniac]

the current regime

 

[backmarkerducati]

Here is a quick comparison of G7 pump prices (March 27, 2023) and 2021 (nearest reliable data) GDP, PPP (for ***** and giggles)--everything normalized to USD:



Canada has the second lowest price at the pump, third highest PPP GDP.

If we expand to the G20:



We move to just higher in cost than mid-pack on the chart but most of the countries with lower fuel costs are not in the same economic position based on GDP/PPP (say 40K to 50K range) with some exceptions... Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Australia with the US being much higher at 63K. The average G20 cost at the pump is $1.26 USD, we are lower than the average.

G20 sorted by GDP, PPP...



Canada is fourth and well above the average which is $33.6K. Maybe we would have been higher in GDP and lower in fuel prices if the Harper Conservatives built those needed pipelines... Trans Mountain, Keystone XL and Trans Canada, they had 10 years in power and some peak oil revenue to invest at the time. At least Trump got the US portion of Keystone XL fully built, oh wait...

BTW the private sector basically walked away from Trans Mountain because they realized it could not be economically built...and the current "regime" took it over, turns out the private sector was right, WAY over cost and climbing. So we should be upset with the JT regime for wasting taxpayers money building a pipeline the previous regime did not build, and the private sector said it was not economical, that is at least legit.

Consumer fuel prices, meh. Cheaper is nice but we are actually not that high globally, and a couple cents a litre increase in the above context, meh.