Fuel prices on the west coast

[PrivatePilot]

By the way, flights would cost less if there was more competition

You can fly all the way to Cuba, stay in an all inclusive and eat and drink yourself to oblivion for a week, and fly home...for less than what my wife just paid for her flight to Winnipeg that she's onboard as I type this.

Fuel prices aren't the problem.

 

[BB722]

To some extent yes. I’m fine with that as I do believe we are at a point (probably beyond the point) where we need to face some uncomfortable truths. By the way, flights would cost less if there was more competition. European flights are dirt cheap in comparison to ours even with sky high fuel prices.

Fuel prices will influence behaviour full stop. We saw that cheap fuel prices encouraged many people to drive massive inefficient vehicles they didn’t really need. Higher prices will have the opposite effect and that’s really not a bad thing. If you still want an Escalade to bring a single kid to and from school you still can....but it’s going to cost you.

Canada will have little impact compared to the largest emittors globally.
As long as they don't take any serious action, it won't matter.

 

[sburns]

To some extent yes. I’m fine with that as I do believe we are at a point (probably beyond the point) where we need to face some uncomfortable truths. By the way, flights would cost less if there was more competition. European flights are dirt cheap in comparison to ours even with sky high fuel prices.

Fuel prices will influence behaviour full stop. We saw that cheap fuel prices encouraged many people to drive massive inefficient vehicles they didn’t really need. Higher prices will have the opposite effect and that’s really not a bad thing. If you still want an Escalade to bring a single kid to and from school you still can....but it’s going to cost you.

Europe is tiny compared to Canada. I would say they are more reasonable flights. But better rates here would be great.

In terms of cost of living stuff. Just gives an excuse for companies to increase prices, on whatever, once it has been increased I doubt it will ever come back down.

I am not sure how much people's behaviour will change, as in what you are suggesting, in terms of not doing things. They will just work harder for the same things they already are doing. And you would be surprised how little people actually know about their vehicles they drive. Most just base it off how large it is, can I carry all my stuff and person's, and how much does it cost to purchase. Eco box cars have been around for a long time, just not suitable for most family needs. Who knows maybe everyone will downsize everything, but I thought we lived in the 1st world here...meh.

 

[jc100]

Europe is tiny compared to Canada. I would say they are more reasonable flights. But better rates here would be great.

In terms of cost of living stuff. Just gives an excuse for companies to increase prices, on whatever, once it has been increased I doubt it will ever come back down.

I am not sure how much people's behaviour will change, as in what you are suggesting, in terms of not doing things. They will just work harder for the same things they already are doing. And you would be surprised how little people actually know about their vehicles they drive. Most just base it off how large it is, can I carry all my stuff and person's, and how much does it cost to purchase. Eco box cars have been around for a long time, just not suitable for most family needs. Who knows maybe everyone will downsize everything, but I thought we lived in the 1st world here...meh.

The rest of Europe has families just as large as ours and don’t require massive vehicles to transport everything around. We have been spoiled for a very long time. Standard parking spaces at my workspace in Canada are pick up truck sized spaces, these are twice the size of small efficient commuter vehicles and we have a waiting list for parking spaces at work. Crazy. Also, it takes a while for costs to change established habits but those changes do take place.

 

[jc100]

Canada will have little impact compared to the largest emittors globally.
As long as they don't take any serious action, it won't matter.

That is the “pass-the-buck” argument and it doesn’t hold water. True leaders lead and lead by example. As for Canada not making a difference, yes it does. 20 years ago smog hazes from Hamilton/GTA were a regular sight on the horizon for me but they don’t seem as regular now. So even if you think other countries not adapting to change should be a reason for us not to adapt either the increase in air quality should be argument enough to dismiss that.

 

[jc100]

Europe is tiny compared to Canada. I would say they are more reasonable flights. But better rates here would be great.

In terms of cost of living stuff. Just gives an excuse for companies to increase prices, on whatever, once it has been increased I doubt it will ever come back down.

I am not sure how much people's behaviour will change, as in what you are suggesting, in terms of not doing things. They will just work harder for the same things they already are doing. And you would be surprised how little people actually know about their vehicles they drive. Most just base it off how large it is, can I carry all my stuff and person's, and how much does it cost to purchase. Eco box cars have been around for a long time, just not suitable for most family needs. Who knows maybe everyone will downsize everything, but I thought we lived in the 1st world here...meh.

Cheap flights from Europe to other international destinations are also there. My brother is flying to Brazil from the UK cheaper to than I can from Canada due to competition. It is cheaper for my family to fly from the UK to Canada than it is for me to fly from Canada to the UK when you look at currency conversion. The last example is a mystery to me though as it doesn’t make too much sense. Even all-inclusive Caribbean vacations are a little bit cheaper from the UK and that’s nuts when you look at the flight times involved.

 

[sburns]

The rest of Europe has families just as large as ours and don’t require massive vehicles to transport everything around. We have been spoiled for a very long time. Standard parking spaces at my workspace in Canada are pick up truck sized spaces, these are twice the size of small efficient commuter vehicles and we have a waiting list for parking spaces at work. Crazy. Also, it takes a while for costs to change established habits but those changes do take place.

Why is someone being spoiled to have everyday normal things?? It's not like eveyone around here is driving Cadillac escaldes.
If we had a decent public transportation system maybe people would consider it more then taking the car, but we don't.
Ya that is crazy, may people over there are why can't we have it like North America.
Either way over here we are getting screwed.

 

[jc100]

Why is someone being spoiled to have everyday normal things?? It's not like eveyone around here is driving Cadillac escaldes.
If we had a decent public transportation system maybe people would consider it more then taking the car, but we don't.
Ya that is crazy, may people over there are why can't we have it like North America.
Either way over here we are getting screwed.

That’s precisely my point though, everyday normal things to you are not to most of the rest of the world. We are spoilt. There’s a correction coming, we won’t like it but it’s necessary.

Edit: I have a feeling it will mean we get better public transport by the way.

 

[Gary]

That’s precisely my point though, everyday normal things to you are not to most of the rest of the world. We are spoilt. There’s a correction coming, we won’t like it but it’s necessary.

You mean the race to the bottom is heating up?

 

[BB722]

The rest of Europe has families just as large as ours and don’t require massive vehicles to transport everything around. We have been spoiled for a very long time. Standard parking spaces at my workspace in Canada are pick up truck sized spaces, these are twice the size of small efficient commuter vehicles and we have a waiting list for parking spaces at work. Crazy. Also, it takes a while for costs to change established habits but those changes do take place.

It's not that Europeans don't require massive vehicles it's just that can't really use them there.
Europe doesn't have the space to build large and they had to work around what was already in place from before vehicles becoming popular.
In North America it isn't the case (well, maybe at your workplace), which has basically been built around vehicles/newer transporation.
There are plenty of new suvs and what not coming out getting pretty impressive mpg compared to what was out even just 10 years ago.
It's not a pass the buck argument at all, it's just the harsh truth.

 

[sburns]

You mean the race to the bottom is heating up?

Exactly!

That’s precisely my point though, everyday normal things to you are not to most of the rest of the world. We are spoilt. There’s a correction coming, we won’t like it but it’s necessary.

Edit: I have a feeling it will mean we get better public transport by the way.

I could give a dam what the other people in the world have or not. I rather judge our standard of living by what we are doing here. We are not spoiled we have earned and built a quality of life we can enjoy. If others want it come here and contribute or stay where they are and make it better over there. I am not interested in a lower standard of living because it doesn't happen someplace else.

You must be joking with the comment about public transport. Just look at the airport connection, which took too long, and is too expensive.

And if you keep comparing quality of life to Europe, as mentioned I was in London and paid 13 pounds for a small/medium pizza with just pepperoni, which works out to be $22 CAD. How is that better! It's just pizza and wasn't that great.

 

[jc100]

Exactly!


I could give a dam what the other people in the world have or not. I rather judge our standard of living by what we are doing here. We are not spoiled we have earned and built a quality of life we can enjoy. If others want it come here and contribute or stay where they are and make it better over there. I am not interested in a lower standard of living because it doesn't happen someplace else.

You must be joking with the comment about public transport. Just look at the airport connection, which took too long, and is too expensive.

And if you keep comparing quality of life to Europe, as mentioned I was in London and paid 13 pounds for a small/medium pizza with just pepperoni, which works out to be $22 CAD. How is that better! It's just pizza and wasn't that great.

You do realize they get paid more than us and that London is one of the most expensive places to live?

Also, it’s not a race to the bottom. That can only be your point of view if you think gas guzzling behemoths are the future? Actually Canada is light years behind many countries in terms of advances. We are already at the bottom in some respects.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Why is someone being spoiled to have everyday normal things?? It's not like eveyone around here is driving Cadillac escaldes.
If we had a decent public transportation system maybe people would consider it more then taking the car, but we don't.

Everyone in North America thinks they need a huge pickup truck or SUV to pickup beer and groceries and lug the kids to soccer practice.

Most other places in the world they accomplish that with compact or midsize cars.

The public transportation system is one thing, and a fair argument. The argument that everyone "needs" a pavement princess monster truck to do things that a hatchback can do. It's all about vanity for many, and keeping up with the Jones' - it's not a "need" for probably 95% of people who own these super sized vehicles. And many owners haven't "earned" them, either - the bank owns them. Many are extended almost to the breaking point to keep their lifestyles in place even though they're at or beyond their means.

But gotta keep up with the Jonses', right?

And before anyone jumps on me as an EV owner blah blah blah, I used to own a 1-Ton diesel dually crew cab pickup truck. But I actually used it for its intended purposes - pulling our big 5th wheel camper, and our 4 horse trailer head to head trailer with living quarters. When both of those things went away, I sold the damn pickup truck.

Geezus, as for complaining about everything from A to Z and listening to some whine about how bad we have it here blah blah, it's evident that many Canadians need to look outside our own country for a reality check sometimes. We live in what is arguably one of the top 2-4 countries in the world with a standard of living that the rest of the world is envious of. People have simply lost perspective on that reality today it seems.

 

[Mad Mike]

... it should be no surprise to anyone that owns one that motorcycle ownership rarely saves you any money unless you're using it religiously for very long commutes in which you'd otherwise be driving your car. Even then, with a short riding season, insurance and upkeep costs, and the fact that there are cars out there now that rival the fuel economy of many motorcycles, it's not realistic solely from a money saving aspect.

This is true. I ride Apr thru Oct unless the weather is to bad to do so. My car and bike are about the same cost to maintain so the main diff is fuel. Car used 7L/100km, bike about 5l/100km. To recover the incremental cost of insurance and plates, approx $1000 i'd have to ride about 40,000km a year to break even.

 

[sburns]

You do realize they get paid more than us and that London is one of the most expensive places to live?

Also, it’s not a race to the bottom. That can only be your point of view if you think gas guzzling behemoths are the future? Actually Canada is light years behind many countries in terms of advances. We are already at the bottom in some respects.

Maybe that is to keep pace with the high cost of living there. I take it is relative to how far your income and taxes dollars will go.

Not at all. I already drive a hybrid. Actually as a kid I always envisioned owning an electric car and other environmentally friendly options like solar powered homes, wind and turbine systems. I like the idea of being self sufficient. It was fun as a kid to see these futuristic things. But the reality as an adult you are just taxed to death and have limited control of the consumables you need for everyday life.

Yes agreed Canada is way behind on a bunch of stuff. Except when it come to reports, out government here is great a making those.

 

[jc100]

Maybe that is to keep pace with the high cost of living there. I take it is relative to how far your income and taxes dollars will go.

Not at all. I already drive a hybrid. Actually as a kid I always envisioned owning an electric car and other environmentally friendly options like solar powered homes, wind and turbine systems. I like the idea of being self sufficient. It was fun as a kid to see these futuristic things. But the reality as an adult you are just taxed to death and have limited control of the consumables you need for everyday life.

Yes agreed Canada is way behind on a bunch of stuff. Except when it come to reports, out government here is great a making those.

Don’t get me wrong. I love Canada and there is a reason why we recently came in at #1 on a quality of life comparison of countries. Part of that however relates to your “taxed to death” comment. Looking for more improvements is not mutually exclusive with loving the country though.

When I first came here 20 odd years ago the first thing I did was get myself an old Ford Explorer. Things change though, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better and sometimes in the hopes of being better in the future.

 

[Roadghost]

 

[Roadghost]

 

[BB722]

Everyone in North America thinks they need a huge pickup truck or SUV to pickup beer and groceries and lug the kids to soccer practice.

Most other places in the world they accomplish that with compact or midsize cars.

The public transportation system is one thing, and a fair argument. The argument that everyone "needs" a pavement princess monster truck to do things that a hatchback can do. It's all about vanity for many, and keeping up with the Jones' - it's not a "need" for probably 95% of people who own these super sized vehicles. And many owners haven't "earned" them, either - the bank owns them. Many are extended almost to the breaking point to keep their lifestyles in place even though they're at or beyond their means.

But gotta keep up with the Jonses', right?

And before anyone jumps on me as an EV owner blah blah blah, I used to own a 1-Ton diesel dually crew cab pickup truck. But I actually used it for its intended purposes - pulling our big 5th wheel camper, and our 4 horse trailer head to head trailer with living quarters. When both of those things went away, I sold the damn pickup truck.

Geezus, as for complaining about everything from A to Z and listening to some whine about how bad we have it here blah blah, it's evident that many Canadians need to look outside our own country for a reality check sometimes. We live in what is arguably one of the top 2-4 countries in the world with a standard of living that the rest of the world is envious of. People have simply lost perspective on that reality today it seems.

lol. If they can make the payments then they have "earned" them, you're basically saying anyone who has a mortgage on a house hasn't earned it.
Who's whining btw?

 

[PrivatePilot]

Banks make sure you can actually afford what you're buying, even more now with the stress tests. Banks don't want to end up holding your bag - they almost always lose money dealing with the mess people leave behind when they lose a home.

Car dealers (and toy dealers) will willingly get people into financial disasters just to move product or meet quota. I know people who have bought $10,000 cars at ~20% interest because they had **** credit but really wanted that car... and lots of us know people who have a shiny new $70K pickup truck in their driveway but can barely afford the payments on a 70-80 (some even stretch to 97!) month (!!) finance arrangement.

A lot of people aren't willing to live modestly, opting instead to live beyond their means at the expense of never never financing plans where by the time they pay off their vehicle...it's lost 90% or more of it's value. Do they deserve it? Have they earned it? I suppose there's an argument to be made that if someone's willing to loan them the money, well...

Perhaps I'm just happy living within our means with nothing to prove, riding a 15 year old bike with 7 and 8 year old cars in the driveway, and a modest home that fit our needs and finances when we bought it 20 years ago. I know not everyone shares my opinion.