Emissions and the future of motorcycles | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Emissions and the future of motorcycles

ungoloth

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Has anywhere implemented retroactive emissions standards? They obviously banned leaded auto fuel but you can still buy 100LL for planes today and people found ways to keep leaded vehicles running. Two-stroke everything is still allowed most places (some lakes are electric only but that is a hyper local regulation).

Eventually, I could see major cities banning fossil fuel burning anything but outside of a city I doubt there will ever be a restriction that affects things built in the past.
The Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (CNSC) implements all regulations on everything nuclear in this country.
 

ungoloth

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Which is worse a 400,000 year worry wart or continued climate decimation?
that chronological value is about twice as long as homosapien has been around.
we are worried about what language or symbols will be used thousands of years from now to warn people about the deadly hazard.
both options are from
We must adopt fussion in lieu of fission.
 

woot

Well-known member
I don't think a battery exchange program would work unless there is some kind of inspection and certification process to make sure the previous user of the battery didn't damage the casing/internals thus causing more damage to your electric vehicle when you swapped in this bad unit.

Battery exchange will probably work in the context of a fleet of trucks owned by the same company, it's in their best interests to keep everything up to spec to minimize disruptions/repairs.
Batteries needed to power modern EVs weigh 100s of lbs. You would need an engine hoist or forklift to swap most.

If you go with multiple modular batteries then you have to worry about theft. You can't make it too easy for thieves to walk off with the most expensive part of your vehicle. I remember when the local Hyundai dealer had to remove all of the catalytic converters from the lot until cars were sold because they were too easy to remove and very valuable.

It appears that every manufacturer is moving more in the other direction even integrating the battery into the frame for weight savings. Swappable would be great but I just don't think it's in the cards with so many companies working on EVs and no one working on a universal battery.
 

Low rider

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Batteries needed to power modern EVs weigh 100s of lbs. You would need an engine hoist or forklift to swap most.

If you go with multiple modular batteries then you have to worry about theft. You can't make it too easy for thieves to walk off with the most expensive part of your vehicle. I remember when the local Hyundai dealer had to remove all of the catalytic converters from the lot until cars were sold because they were too easy to remove and very valuable.

It appears that every manufacturer is moving more in the other direction even integrating the battery into the frame for weight savings. Swappable would be great but I just don't think it's in the cards with so many companies working on EVs and no one working on a universal battery.
It's pretty simple to design some type of tool to assist a battery exchange.
All that needs to be done is orchestrate a standardized size and coupling connection.
This happens all the time. Gas holes were all different sizes for a while.
Motorcycles had shifters and levers and shift patterns depending on how the manufacturer decided was better until standardization came along
 

sburns

Well-known member
It is now but I would like to see fusion development asap
Someday they will miniaturize this...maybe

to get to this
6a00d8341c4ebd53ef0120a8b6ba6e970b-320wi.jpg
 

woot

Well-known member
It's pretty simple to design some type of tool to assist a battery exchange.
All that needs to be done is orchestrate a standardized size and coupling connection.
This happens all the time. Gas holes were all different sizes for a while.
Motorcycles had shifters and levers and shift patterns depending on how the manufacturer decided was better until standardization came along

Maybe way down the road when the technology development slows down. You can't develop a standard until you have a best practice. Right now the focus of designers is performance and getting everything they can out of the batteries. It took decades to nail down gas holes and levers and they are much more simple then batteries. The industry is getting close to agreeing on a charging connector but even Tesla is still proprietary.

I'm sure if the will was there it COULD be done. I think that it is more likely that the focus will continue to be on battery and charging performance for the foreseeable future until one company becomes big enough/advanced enough that the others have no choice but to follow their lead.
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
There is no way battery assemblies would be sufficiently standardised between manufacturers and models. The same battery pack could be undersized for the future equivalent of a Gold Wing (weight and size hardly matter) and overweight for the future equivalent of an urban scooter, nevermind the packaging. Even if you bring it down to three or four different sizes, the need for the battery assembly to be easily removed and installed imposes severe constraints on the design of the vehicles that use it. Battery-exchange might be possible for some models but I wouldn't count on it going across the board. Cars are not going in that direction, bikes won't, either.

Lithium-metal batteries of some sort are expected to be the next generation of vehicle-propulsion batteries, with roughly double the energy storage per unit of volume and weight as lithium-ion, and allow faster charging. It will work out okay.
 

800over

Well-known member
The problem is we are used to the freedom presented by instant long range travel. Freedom, to many, is not having to plan or sacrifice.

I knew a guy that was bored one weekend so he and three buddies drove to Winnipeg for a milkshake.

Another would drive to New Brunswick for the weekend. 40-50 years ago you didn't have to worry about collecting demerit points from out of province so once east of the PQ border it was pedal to the metal. Fill ups were fast and cheap.

With an EV you have to think and plan a little. Why pay extra for a car that makes you think as it restricts your options.

I disagree with the Tesla transport truck. The stats show it will handle a huge percentage of the runs but when a person or company is shelling out hundreds of thousands for a tractor why would they want a vehicle that would make them turn down some sudden long hauls.

Why not dump trucks and city delivery trucks instead of the tractor trailer market?
I agree with your examples...but they aren't the market for the EVs. Again what percentage of households have only one vehicle? Eliminate those and you still have somewhere north of 70% of the market.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I agree with your examples...but they aren't the market for the EVs. Again what percentage of households have only one vehicle? Eliminate those and you still have somewhere north of 70% of the market.

Always remember to factor in pettiness. A lot of people want to find the car the way they left it. Clean, no smells, no garbage, radio settings, seat settings etc.

We've been one car for two years and I get tired of my wife's collection of serviettes and shopping bags and she probably gets tired of my empty coffee cups and donut wrappers. However we're saving thousands of dollars a year so not going to make a fuss.

For the foreseeable future EVs will require a bit more thought and planning. Probably the biggest hurdle after price. You have to keep charge in mind. Any airhead can pop into a gas station and five minutes later be ready for another 400 Kms.
 

Renboy

Well-known member
The only way battery exchange will happen is if the batteries are tiny relative to what they are now. Not only are they heavy, large, completely proprietary, and difficult to remove/install, where are 'gas stations' going to store them? Any given gas station in an urban environment probably sees 480 cars per day (car every 3 min - just a guess). If the battery goes on a charger as soon as it's removed and it takes 4 hours to fully charge it then you would need at least 80 batteries if the cars came perfectly spaced out during the day. Places like Costco would need to have probably 800 batteries on site to meet demand. Not happening.
 

Low rider

Well-known member
Site Supporter
The only way battery exchange will happen is if the batteries are tiny relative to what they are now. Not only are they heavy, large, completely proprietary, and difficult to remove/install, where are 'gas stations' going to store them? Any given gas station in an urban environment probably sees 480 cars per day (car every 3 min - just a guess). If the battery goes on a charger as soon as it's removed and it takes 4 hours to fully charge it then you would need at least 80 batteries if the cars came perfectly spaced out during the day. Places like Costco would need to have probably 800 batteries on site to meet demand. Not happening.
Mark my words
 

Renboy

Well-known member
This is how I foresee the future of vehicles: the general public will not buy or own cars. They will be electric, self driving taxis. You will have a monthly plan with a certain grade of car and amount of allowable km's. Much like cell phone plans. Nicer phone = nicer car, more data = more mileage.
You tell the car where and when to grab you, and where to take you and it complies. Then drives off to the next customer. Like a vacuum it will park/charge itself when it knows it's dead.
The only people that will own vehicles will be track drivers and construction or other related companies that haul tools/materials with them daily (or often).
This is just my thought, and truthfully, I think it can't come soon enough. All the space wasted on parking lots, fixed. The congestion due to on street parking, fixed. The garage space used to hold a car rather than a bunch of useless crap you don't need, fixed. Soccer moms merging onto a 400 series highway doing 60km/h, abolished.
 

Renboy

Well-known member
To bring this somewhat back on topic, regarding bikes, electric are cheaper and cleaner to run than ice counterparts. The countries that buy the vast majority of motorcycles are poorer countries where savings are highly valued, and as such dictate global markets. Honda isn't going to make a bike with an ice just for Canada and the States.
 

LBV

Well-known member
Site Supporter
This is how I foresee the future of vehicles: the general public will not buy or own cars. They will be electric, self driving taxis. You will have a monthly plan with a certain grade of car and amount of allowable km's. Much like cell phone plans. Nicer phone = nicer car, more data = more mileage.
You tell the car where and when to grab you, and where to take you and it complies. Then drives off to the next customer. Like a vacuum it will park/charge itself when it knows it's dead.
The only people that will own vehicles will be track drivers and construction or other related companies that haul tools/materials with them daily (or often).
This is just my thought, and truthfully, I think it can't come soon enough. All the space wasted on parking lots, fixed. The congestion due to on street parking, fixed. The garage space used to hold a car rather than a bunch of useless crap you don't need, fixed. Soccer moms merging onto a 400 series highway doing 60km/h, abolished.
Likely but not sure it'll be in our generation.
 

woot

Well-known member
This is how I foresee the future of vehicles: the general public will not buy or own cars. They will be electric, self driving taxis. You will have a monthly plan with a certain grade of car and amount of allowable km's. Much like cell phone plans. Nicer phone = nicer car, more data = more mileage.
You tell the car where and when to grab you, and where to take you and it complies. Then drives off to the next customer. Like a vacuum it will park/charge itself when it knows it's dead.
The only people that will own vehicles will be track drivers and construction or other related companies that haul tools/materials with them daily (or often).
This is just my thought, and truthfully, I think it can't come soon enough. All the space wasted on parking lots, fixed. The congestion due to on street parking, fixed. The garage space used to hold a car rather than a bunch of useless crap you don't need, fixed. Soccer moms merging onto a 400 series highway doing 60km/h, abolished.

Pretty unlikely. People in the city seem to forget that there is a massive part of the population who never see traffic congestion, parking lots, 400 series hwys. etc. There are literally communities all over Canada that still burn diesel for electricity and have extremely poor road infrastructure.

There aren't even normal human driven taxis in 99% of Canada. 100s of self driving taxis would be needed to get all of the workers to and from a mill or factory in a rural community. Then what would all of those cars do while everyone is at work/sleeping? There are only so many old ladies that need to go grocery shopping during the day. I'd guess go and park somewhere.

Furthermore Elon Musk has even stated that self driving vehicles is never going to happen. The software can never be perfect and someone has to be liable when it kills. My Nissan Altima has gone the entire length of the 115 without me putting in any steering, braking input in the summer, it's amazing. Put a little snow on the road and it loses track of the lines. Crest a steep hill with a corner and it loses track of where the road is going. Cruise is set too high for a corner, and it overshoots it.
 

Renboy

Well-known member
Pretty unlikely. People in the city seem to forget that there is a massive part of the population who never see traffic congestion, parking lots, 400 series hwys. etc. There are literally communities all over Canada that still burn diesel for electricity and have extremely poor road infrastructure.

There aren't even normal human driven taxis in 99% of Canada. 100s of self driving taxis would be needed to get all of the workers to and from a mill or factory in a rural community. Then what would all of those cars do while everyone is at work/sleeping? There are only so many old ladies that need to go grocery shopping during the day. I'd guess go and park somewhere.

Furthermore Elon Musk has even stated that self driving vehicles is never going to happen. The software can never be perfect and someone has to be liable when it kills. My Nissan Altima has gone the entire length of the 115 without me putting in any steering, braking input in the summer, it's amazing. Put a little snow on the road and it loses track of the lines. Crest a steep hill with a corner and it loses track of where the road is going. Cruise is set too high for a corner, and it overshoots it.
That's a fair point, but everything has exceptions, and this would be no different. There are also people that don't have running water at home in Canada, don't have electricity, and don't use or own cell phones. The vast majority does though, and like virtually any other business, the vast majority is the target. Furthermore, Canada's realistic population density is quite high and could support the model if/when it arrives. I somewhat remember reading that something like 90% of our population lives within 200kms of the US border. There's a reason that the 401 is one of the most travelled highways in the world.
 

Top Bottom