Emissions and the future of motorcycles | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Emissions and the future of motorcycles

ungoloth

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It takes over 10 years to build a nuclear power generating station.
the emissions created by electric vehicles will then be hidden in the form of spent (and highly radioactive) uranium. Btw it takes 400,000 years for spent uranium to decay to a safe radiological level. Electric vehicles are a bad idea.
 

Trials

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Frame weighs 11 pounds :cool: if it don't break that's awesome.
 

MacDoc

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the emissions created by electric vehicles will then be hidden in the form of spent (and highly radioactive) uranium. Btw it takes 400,000 years for spent uranium to decay to a safe radiological level. Electric vehicles are a bad idea.
:rolleyes: little light on the facts.
 

ungoloth

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:rolleyes: little light on the facts.
I worked for 31 years in the nuclear industry. 5 years in spent fuel management. We load 10 year old spent nuclear fuel in Dry storage containers (DSC) and weld a lid on the DSC. There is a Forrest of DSC's inside Storage buildings.
The only fact you really need to know is without precautions and procedures, the spent fuel is radioactive enough to be fatal with a single exposure.
There are plans for up to five Storage buildings at just the Darlington site.
There is currently no agreed upon long term solution for spent radioactive fuel.
 

nobbie48

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A bit of a spin off but with the grandfathering idea I would like to know about vintage boats, one of my pleasures.

I've restored a number of cedar strip boats and they look better or at least more historic with a vintage motor. The really old ones run 20:1 gas / oil mix, a quart of oil in a five gallon tank. Every time you filled the gas tank you basically dumped a quart of oil into the lake or air immediately above it.

When you start one of the oldies with full choke you will leave a rainbow on the water. I restored them but only ran them occasionally and not recently. I've been told by an unreliable source that the rainbow gets a fine. The source may be unreliable but the concept is believable.

Do we cancel vintage in the water boat meets or are there allowances for heritage boats and to the same degree, vintage vehicles?

Cars and trucks tend to self correct the problem by rusting out and being too costly to repair after fifteen or so years. It isn't worth it to write expensive emissions legislation to go after one or two survivor vehicles when they probably need brake and suspension work. New struts are more than the car is worth.

Boat and bike motors don't get the same usage so can be a problem. Twenty year old bikes tend to look better than twenty year old cars thus not as likely to get scrapped.
 

nobbie48

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Eventually, it's all going to change over to electric. Given quite rapid improvements in batteries over the last few years and a couple of new technologies on the horizon (lithium-metal, lithium-sulfur which promise to roughly double the energy stored per unit of weight), plus quite rapid expansion of charging networks ... It will be okay. Different, but okay.

Electric power gets the emissions regulators off the manufacturers' backs. Issue goes away. YES, it becomes someone else's problem (generating station) BUT ... it's someone else's problem.

Fossil fuel distribution is going to be around for a long time yet. Just because the manufacturers stop selling new combustion-engine vehicles beyond 2030 or 2035 or 2040 or who knows (it's likely to be somewhere in that timeframe) doesn't mean fossil fuel distribution goes away overnight. It takes 10 or 15 years for the fleet to turn over. Eventually, it will no longer be economical for filling stations to be on every corner ... When it's easier to plug your vehicle into an electric outlet than to find a filling station, who's going to buy a combustion-engine vehicle any more, especially for day-to-day operation?

We couldn't even pull off an overnight changeover to an all-electric fleet if we wanted to. We don't have enough generating and distribution capacity. But given 10-15 years for sales of new vehicles to ramp up plus another 10-15 years for the fleet to turn over ... That's lots of time to make incremental improvements.

VW has stated that they are not going to develop another generation of combustion engines. The designs that they have in production, will carry them through to the end. Incremental changes along the way, sure, but no more ground-up designs of combustion engines.

GM has stated that the Corvette C8 will be the last generation of Corvette to use an internal-combustion engine powertrain.

If you haven't had the opportunity for a test-drive, or even a test-ride, in one of the performance-oriented Tesla models ... do it.

It will be fine.

The fleet turn over of fifteen years is reasonable but what about the turn over of condos with charging points for every parking spot? The cost of enlarging a main electrical room and running 400 outlets is astronomical. Who pays for it?

New condos get a few charging spots on one level. If EV's took over the world tomorrow even the newest condos would not be able to handle situation.

Excuse me, Jimmy Joe, my second cousin, twice removed, from Arkansas just wanted to make a point.

"OK you sissy assed gun shy city slickers. You and your damn socialism. Electric cars are commie cars. Ya cain't go where ya wanna win ya wanna. Sharin stuff is pinko stuff. I kin fill my tank, throw a few gas cans in the trunk and don't need to sit behind some prissy ecolgist while his battry fills. As far as a bit of gas on my hands its better than ahavin to buy the Old spice stuff that smells like the things granny buys for the outhouse in the summer. Men should smel like men.

I'm an Muricun and can keep a couple a hunderd gallons of gas in the tank by the barn and no damn limp rist commie can shut off my power. Nuff said."

JJ just left. I would have moved my car. He didn't have to drive off over the lawn but he has his points.

JJ wouldn't like condo life. No front porch to keep his hound dogs. JJ has lots of kids, the future of America.
 

Brian P

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And there's little question that the rednecks and luddites will hold progress back. The manufacturers need to make EVs that are "cool" or "desirable" or have features facilitated because they are EVs, and they just happen to be electric.

Tesla, to their credit, "got" this years ago.
 

nobbie48

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Until I can pull up to a "CHARGING" station and exchange batteries in the time it takes to refuel i won't be buying an electric car. I'm still driving to Montreal Windsor and all over Ontario.
I don't need a two hour fuel stop.
Exchange is a good idea but they would have to limit the number of different batteries. Imagine if there were 25 different octanes and your car would only run on one?

Also not everyone is a techie. Some people pay to have watch batteries changed.
 

nobbie48

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What is the life cycle of airplanes? 70 years or more? They are still being churned out for dyno fuel with no medium term prospect of conversion to electric.

I don't have stats but fuel costs were the reason for the Max 8 initial success. While planes can last 70 years or more the maintenance costs are prohibitive for commercial operations. Fuel savings and corporate images ground more planes than mechanical issues. A flight in a Ford Tri-motor or DC-3 would be a hoot for an hour or so but if I was flying to Vancouver, not a chance.
 

nobbie48

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I can understand the need for a carbon tax, but I don't agree with the way it's being administered at all.
Personally, think they should take all the carbon tax "income" and redirect it to cover the CERB/Covid benefits and keep it that way until they've reduced that debt load by at least 75%.

Otherwise, it will be a while before ICE has a proper contender. The overall electric infrastructure and battery tech just isn't quite there yet.
That being said, I'd love to drive one of those CyberTrucks - even if only for the experience.

Rule #1 of government: All moneys collected go into a slush fund as the outflow is not easily traced.
 

Lightcycle

Snowmadic
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Exchange is a good idea but they would have to limit the number of different batteries. Imagine if there were 25 different octanes and your car would only run on one?

I don't think a battery exchange program would work unless there is some kind of inspection and certification process to make sure the previous user of the battery didn't damage the casing/internals thus causing more damage to your electric vehicle when you swapped in this bad unit.

Battery exchange will probably work in the context of a fleet of trucks owned by the same company, it's in their best interests to keep everything up to spec to minimize disruptions/repairs.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
A bit of a spin off but with the grandfathering idea I would like to know about vintage boats, one of my pleasures.

I've restored a number of cedar strip boats and they look better or at least more historic with a vintage motor. The really old ones run 20:1 gas / oil mix, a quart of oil in a five gallon tank. Every time you filled the gas tank you basically dumped a quart of oil into the lake or air immediately above it.

When you start one of the oldies with full choke you will leave a rainbow on the water. I restored them but only ran them occasionally and not recently. I've been told by an unreliable source that the rainbow gets a fine. The source may be unreliable but the concept is believable.

Do we cancel vintage in the water boat meets or are there allowances for heritage boats and to the same degree, vintage vehicles?

Cars and trucks tend to self correct the problem by rusting out and being too costly to repair after fifteen or so years. It isn't worth it to write expensive emissions legislation to go after one or two survivor vehicles when they probably need brake and suspension work. New struts are more than the car is worth.

Boat and bike motors don't get the same usage so can be a problem. Twenty year old bikes tend to look better than twenty year old cars thus not as likely to get scrapped.
Has anywhere implemented retroactive emissions standards? They obviously banned leaded auto fuel but you can still buy 100LL for planes today and people found ways to keep leaded vehicles running. Two-stroke everything is still allowed most places (some lakes are electric only but that is a hyper local regulation).

Eventually, I could see major cities banning fossil fuel burning anything but outside of a city I doubt there will ever be a restriction that affects things built in the past.
 

nobbie48

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I always laugh at the "I cannot buy an EV until" argument. What percentage of households have two cars? Of those what percentage have a car that NEVER gets driven more than 100km one way (maybe 50%?). A huge percentage of the market can switch to EV/plug in hybrid right now and reduce our carbon usage. YES some people need there only car to go 500km and then fill up in 5 minutes and drive another 500k....but if 15% of our vehicles switched it would be a good start.

As for charge times...when Solid State batteries and other tech improve things there will no longer be the charge time argument.

I still think the 30/300/30 rule would work for most. Sell me an EV for 30k that can do 300k on a charge that takes 30 minutes and you have my money. And not a subcompact.

The problem is we are used to the freedom presented by instant long range travel. Freedom, to many, is not having to plan or sacrifice.

I knew a guy that was bored one weekend so he and three buddies drove to Winnipeg for a milkshake.

Another would drive to New Brunswick for the weekend. 40-50 years ago you didn't have to worry about collecting demerit points from out of province so once east of the PQ border it was pedal to the metal. Fill ups were fast and cheap.

With an EV you have to think and plan a little. Why pay extra for a car that makes you think as it restricts your options.

I disagree with the Tesla transport truck. The stats show it will handle a huge percentage of the runs but when a person or company is shelling out hundreds of thousands for a tractor why would they want a vehicle that would make them turn down some sudden long hauls.

Why not dump trucks and city delivery trucks instead of the tractor trailer market?
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
It takes over 10 years to build a nuclear power generating station.
the emissions created by electric vehicles will then be hidden in the form of spent (and highly radioactive) uranium. Btw it takes 400,000 years for spent uranium to decay to a safe radiological level. Electric vehicles are a bad idea.
Which is worse a 400,000 year worry wart or continued climate decimation?
 

george__

Well-known member
It takes over 10 years to build a nuclear power generating station.
the emissions created by electric vehicles will then be hidden in the form of spent (and highly radioactive) uranium. Btw it takes 400,000 years for spent uranium to decay to a safe radiological level. Electric vehicles are a bad idea.
Nuclear is the answer
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Has anywhere implemented retroactive emissions standards? They obviously banned leaded auto fuel but you can still buy 100LL for planes today and people found ways to keep leaded vehicles running. Two-stroke everything is still allowed most places (some lakes are electric only but that is a hyper local regulation).

Eventually, I could see major cities banning fossil fuel burning anything but outside of a city I doubt there will ever be a restriction that affects things built in the past.

Historic vehicles tend to be impractical so are usually special event use only. Unless some Eco-Nazi complains there shouldn't be a problem. I may be wrong but I thought that in California a stock vintage vehicle was exempt on emission regulations but if you dropped a Chevy V-8 into your 32 Ford deuce coupe regulations were imposed.

With my 20:1 motors I used a far better oil than available in the '50s and went with a leaner oil ratio and didn't have a problem. For five hours a year I wasn't worried. If it wasn't for the babbitt bearings I would have gone leaner again.

I would have to research ceramichrome for the cylinders to see if that would be a plus or minus for the rings and bore. I don't know if a modern oil injected or 4 stroke motor would fit under a vintage cover.

All are time and money wasters. Thanks to Covid I have the time. Thanks to the government I don't have the money.
 

bitzz

Well-known member
If it wasn't for the babbitt bearings
WAIT WHAT??
You have a 2T motor with babbitt mains? How does that work?

I don't know if a modern oil injected or 4 stroke motor would fit under a vintage cover.
Not yet. Probably not enough market, but 100% doable.
Here's a electric small block This Canadian is building the world’s first electric small-block Chevy V8
Seems to me boats would be fairly simple. Vintage outboards are not small. You could get enough electric motor inside a set old 20HP cases without much drama. Inboards you just hide the electric motor, just like the ICE motor it replaces, remove any ballast and fill the bilge with batteries.
Motorcycles are a problem as there's no where to hide the electric stuff.

You can "modernize" an old 2T, by closing up tolerances, setting the squish to something realistic, better pipe and ideally adding reed valves, and if you run a modern synth oil you can safely run 50:1
Ceramic, and before that chrome, cylinder walls seal better and have much better heat transfer, but don't take much abuse.
Why not dump trucks and city delivery trucks instead of the tractor trailer market?
Everybody is building a delivery and short haul truck, the technology is more mature because it is borrowed from electric buses, which have been around always.
The Tesla was the first semi with range. Still not enough range though, particularly at the price, $180,000USD for the 500mile range model.
To be successful the thing would have to go 24/7. A tesla won't do that. If you had a set run of 450 mile with a 4-6 hr loading time at each end, PERFECT! ...but long haul don't work like that.
 

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