Daily sports car? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Daily sports car?

But still ... 200 horsepower!

My car has half that (and it feels like a third of that, because it's geared tall). Not all that many years ago, the normal versions of Mustang etc were in that range. I recall a time when that was about the most you could get in a Mustang or (gasp) a Corvette from the factory! YES you could hot rod them but we're talking stock for stock.

If you mash the accelerator to the floor in super-tall overdrive 6th, nothing's going to happen. SHIFT!!
 
I see. I sometimes experience the front wheels losing traction on my current car in first gear (280hp, V6, fwd, stick shift). So is that the main difference and an RWD wouldn't do that ? I've never driven an equal or more powerful RWD to know.
That's part of it. Weight shifts to the rear when you accelerate, so a FWD car will never be as good as a RWD in this respect.
 
and if you've ever used engine power to counter under-steer
you'll understand how inadequate front wheel drive is
 
I'd sooner be pushed then pulled.
 
But still ... 200 horsepower!

My car has half that (and it feels like a third of that, because it's geared tall). Not all that many years ago, the normal versions of Mustang etc were in that range. I recall a time when that was about the most you could get in a Mustang or (gasp) a Corvette from the factory! YES you could hot rod them but we're talking stock for stock.

If you mash the accelerator to the floor in super-tall overdrive 6th, nothing's going to happen. SHIFT!!

Mid seventies Corvettes were only about 150hp. I drove my girlfriends sisters at the time (mid 80's) 1975 vette once. What a turd.
 
BRZ
yeah it's not very powerful
but the fun factor is huge
and Subaru quality is, ahem, a level above Ford

and I don't care how much you dress up
and kit out a Golf
they area an econo-box in the their soul

Honda? hahahaha


I'm not sure about the fun factor.. I always recommend to rent/try it before buying it. It is an amazing car on a race track and autox.. but I can't say that it puts a smile on my face..

I see. I sometimes experience the front wheels losing traction on my current car in first gear (280hp, V6, fwd, stick shift). So is that the main difference and an RWD wouldn't do that ? I've never driven an equal or more powerful RWD to know.
There are so many differences between FWD, RWD, AWD.. e.g. on RWD (with good power) you can easily spin the rear tires but it will have a very different effect if you are in a turn.. I guess there is no much difference only in 1 case: if they are relatively slow cars, driven in a city and driver doesn't push them..
 
200 horsepower in the 86/BRZ is "embarrassingly slow"?

In whose world is that? I've never owned a car with much more than half that. Still don't!

The advantage in today's world of a car (or bike) being "moderately slow" - if not "actually slow" (my car!) - is that you get to wring it out while not really actually going all that fast.

The 86/BRZ (and Miata, and S2000) are meant for "driver engagement" - the way the steering and suspension respond, being able to explore the car's limits ... the 86/BRZ intentionally comes standard with the same low-rolling-resistance tires that the Prius has, because you can slide them around without actually going stupidly fast. The engine intentionally does not have huge power because then the driver gets to row it through the gears and wind it out to redline without actually going stupidly fast (although 200 hp ought to still be enough to get in plenty of trouble).

Is that what you are looking for, or are you looking for something that is "actually fast"?
Yes, I consider it slow for what it is. It just doesn't accelerate as quickly as you would think considering the specs, it feels soft in that department.

Having said that, notice I said that you are grinning like an idiot the whole time...it's definitely one of the most fun cars I've ever driven, right up there with early Miatas.

I completely agree with you on the whole driver engagement part, small light moderately powered vehicles are always more fun because you have to work for it.
 
Interesting thread, considering I've owned many of the cars mentioned (some very old generations, though).Here are my thoughts on some of the notable ones:

1990 era Mustang/Camaro/Corvette
I had an 89 5.0 LX, 91 Z28 5.7, and an 89 C4, all of which are likely irrelevant compared to the current models, except for one - TORQUE. These things had gobs of it, which made them super fun to drive, but also super scary. I hear the chassis technology of the more modern versions have finally caught up to the power, making them much more friendly and probably a hell of a lot of fun. I considered a 2005+ Mustang GT when I was looking to replace my S2000, but they were still relatively new at the time with a correspondingly high price, so I ended up with a high mileage M3 for dirt cheap instead.

1990 Miata - hands down the most FUN car I have ever driven. Slow as molasses, but puts a smile on your face. Kind of like riding a scooter for the very first time, except it doesn't get old. Early generations had super low window sills, which made it feel like you were in a go kart. Shifter is the absolute best, basically only need some wrist action. Stock suspension is OK, but gets great with shocks and springs. I had Racing Beat subframe connectors which stiffened it up even more. You can increase the power by bolting on a low pressure turbo, supercharger without touching the bottom end, or do an LS V8 transplant, but that's getting expensive to do it right. This was so long ago I don't remember anything being outrageously expensive. Then again I was young and had more disposable income.

2000 S2000 - hands down the most capable TRACK car I have ever driven - completely stock! You'd think it's just a fast Miata, but they're nothing alike. The tall window sills make you feel like you're sitting deep inside it, almost like a horse with blinders on (well, I'm 5'5"). For the first few weeks I kept short shifting it at 7 or 8k, because I couldn't believe a car could rev that high. I removed the air filter cover to expose the factory cone filter, and the intake sound is glorious. No need for an exhaust at all. The car is telepathic on the track, and its tail happiness helps to get you through the slower corners, but you need to watch it in the long sweepers. No problems at all after beating on it for a full summer day, it idles steadily, as if you just came from the grocery store. On the street, it drives like a Civic below 6000 RPM, then VTEC kicks in and you need to watch your traction if it's wet or cold. I had no problem with snow tires in the winter. All the stories of people who wrapped theirs around trees were probably guys that moved up from front wheel drive Civics and didn't understand how to drive RWD properly, especially, as mentioned, with its (playful) tail happiness. Only had it a year or two and sent it to Honda dealer for service and don't recall prices being ridiculous. Was still under warranty too. Watch out for grinding on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift (I think) at high RPM - there was a TSB for to replace the synchros, not sure if it's covered outside of warranty, so make sure it's already done.

2001 BMW M3 - This is my current daily driver. 300,000 kms so far, and no problems that weren't accountable to wear and tear, or routine maintenance. I bought this to replace the S2000 when I had to start driving my second child to school. It had to be convertible, carry minimum 3 passengers, rear wheel drive, and fast. The McLaren F1 wasn't convertible, so I had to settle for this. By now I mellowed out a bit, plus I had much faster bikes to fill my need for speed. Haven't even had this on the track and may never, but it's reasonably capable for a 4-passenger convertible. Although I have a 4-post lift at home and all the tools to do just about anything on this car, I choose to send it to get the "Inspections" done so I have a paper record of it, which will help with the resale value should I ever sell it. Anything else I do myself, and parts are reasonably priced for what you get. I find German parts to be much more robust than anything Japanese, and if you really wanted to skimp, you can get lower grade parts. Mine came with full service history from new, and I would never pay good money for one if it didn't. Poor (or no) maintenance on an M car is what leads to all the horror stories and expensive repairs. Especially now with prices on the rise.

BRZ or anything Subaru - I haven't driven a BRZ, and have no doubt they're fun to drive, but I do have some bad impressions from our 2012 Impreza I bought my kids to learn on. I always heard Subaru's were reliable, and while the car generally is, oil leaks are common. Problem is, fixing them means removing the the motor, which is where I draw the line on DIY, even though I have a lift, I don't have the room. And of course mine is leaking onto the exhaust manifold, so I have to keep the HVAC on recirculate to keep it our of the cabin. Then there's the 3 recalls within a year (and counting) - airbag, brake light switch, and valve springs. The first two are no big deal, all manufacturers have them, but the valve spring repair seems to be causing some BRZ owners grief, mostly the Toyota version owners, but not limited to them. I don't even want to take the Impreza in until they've had 6 months or more to practice on other peoples' cars. I find parts prices to be on par with my M3, sometimes more expensive, because I have to buy Subaru parts vs being able to get OEM.
 
OP, did you mention price range? That will have an impact on your choices. Also whether you intend to track or not, your level of driving skill, ability to DIY repairs, and whether you care about resale value.
 
Mid seventies Corvettes were only about 150hp. I drove my girlfriends sisters at the time (mid 80's) 1975 vette once. What a turd.
Lmao........... all the major co's were just jamming the hp into cars in the mid 70', weren't they? That 75 likely got about 4-5 mpg too.
With a C7 Z06, you can cruise 120kph in 7th gear only using ~5.5L/100kms. And. In case you're not smiling enough already, there's 650hp waiting to cut loose. Milage suffers, but who cares?
Oh. And those carbon ceramic brakes on the Z06/Z07.....
until you've peddled one.......shhhhh.
No need to try and compare handling with anything else that's been mentioned either. No point.

It's a steaming turd! lol.
 
Lmao........... all the major co's were just jamming the hp into cars in the mid 70', weren't they? That 75 likely got about 4-5 mpg too.
After 1972 HP dropped a huge amount. That was the end of the HP race. By mid seventies they were all sad. That 1975 vet was 165HP and 3700lbs.
I took out a 3 year old 1981 Z28 for a test ride from a GM dealer. What a horrible car and it was like new. Also 165 HP and 3500lbs.
 
The 1972 US gas crisis was the end of an era for HP and the death of the muscle car. They were legislated out of existance. Vettes , Camaros, Mustangs all became 'styling' and Dodge just killed off the 'cuda , challenger ect. The names came back on 4cyl crap boxes.
Dark days for American motoring
 
Interesting thread, considering I've owned many of the cars mentioned (some very old generations, though).Here are my thoughts on some of the notable ones:

1990 era Mustang/Camaro/Corvette
I had an 89 5.0 LX, 91 Z28 5.7, and an 89 C4, all of which are likely irrelevant compared to the current models, except for one - TORQUE. These things had gobs of it, which made them super fun to drive, but also super scary. I hear the chassis technology of the more modern versions have finally caught up to the power, making them much more friendly and probably a hell of a lot of fun. I considered a 2005+ Mustang GT when I was looking to replace my S2000, but they were still relatively new at the time with a correspondingly high price, so I ended up with a high mileage M3 for dirt cheap instead.

1990 Miata - hands down the most FUN car I have ever driven. Slow as molasses, but puts a smile on your face. Kind of like riding a scooter for the very first time, except it doesn't get old. Early generations had super low window sills, which made it feel like you were in a go kart. Shifter is the absolute best, basically only need some wrist action. Stock suspension is OK, but gets great with shocks and springs. I had Racing Beat subframe connectors which stiffened it up even more. You can increase the power by bolting on a low pressure turbo, supercharger without touching the bottom end, or do an LS V8 transplant, but that's getting expensive to do it right. This was so long ago I don't remember anything being outrageously expensive. Then again I was young and had more disposable income.

2000 S2000 - hands down the most capable TRACK car I have ever driven - completely stock! You'd think it's just a fast Miata, but they're nothing alike. The tall window sills make you feel like you're sitting deep inside it, almost like a horse with blinders on (well, I'm 5'5"). For the first few weeks I kept short shifting it at 7 or 8k, because I couldn't believe a car could rev that high. I removed the air filter cover to expose the factory cone filter, and the intake sound is glorious. No need for an exhaust at all. The car is telepathic on the track, and its tail happiness helps to get you through the slower corners, but you need to watch it in the long sweepers. No problems at all after beating on it for a full summer day, it idles steadily, as if you just came from the grocery store. On the street, it drives like a Civic below 6000 RPM, then VTEC kicks in and you need to watch your traction if it's wet or cold. I had no problem with snow tires in the winter. All the stories of people who wrapped theirs around trees were probably guys that moved up from front wheel drive Civics and didn't understand how to drive RWD properly, especially, as mentioned, with its (playful) tail happiness. Only had it a year or two and sent it to Honda dealer for service and don't recall prices being ridiculous. Was still under warranty too. Watch out for grinding on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift (I think) at high RPM - there was a TSB for to replace the synchros, not sure if it's covered outside of warranty, so make sure it's already done.

2001 BMW M3 - This is my current daily driver. 300,000 kms so far, and no problems that weren't accountable to wear and tear, or routine maintenance. I bought this to replace the S2000 when I had to start driving my second child to school. It had to be convertible, carry minimum 3 passengers, rear wheel drive, and fast. The McLaren F1 wasn't convertible, so I had to settle for this. By now I mellowed out a bit, plus I had much faster bikes to fill my need for speed. Haven't even had this on the track and may never, but it's reasonably capable for a 4-passenger convertible. Although I have a 4-post lift at home and all the tools to do just about anything on this car, I choose to send it to get the "Inspections" done so I have a paper record of it, which will help with the resale value should I ever sell it. Anything else I do myself, and parts are reasonably priced for what you get. I find German parts to be much more robust than anything Japanese, and if you really wanted to skimp, you can get lower grade parts. Mine came with full service history from new, and I would never pay good money for one if it didn't. Poor (or no) maintenance on an M car is what leads to all the horror stories and expensive repairs. Especially now with prices on the rise.

BRZ or anything Subaru - I haven't driven a BRZ, and have no doubt they're fun to drive, but I do have some bad impressions from our 2012 Impreza I bought my kids to learn on. I always heard Subaru's were reliable, and while the car generally is, oil leaks are common. Problem is, fixing them means removing the the motor, which is where I draw the line on DIY, even though I have a lift, I don't have the room. And of course mine is leaking onto the exhaust manifold, so I have to keep the HVAC on recirculate to keep it our of the cabin. Then there's the 3 recalls within a year (and counting) - airbag, brake light switch, and valve springs. The first two are no big deal, all manufacturers have them, but the valve spring repair seems to be causing some BRZ owners grief, mostly the Toyota version owners, but not limited to them. I don't even want to take the Impreza in until they've had 6 months or more to practice on other peoples' cars. I find parts prices to be on par with my M3, sometimes more expensive, because I have to buy Subaru parts vs being able to get OEM.
You, sir, are my hero...what an impressive list of cars lol, you owned pretty much every car I lusted after as a teenager back in the early 90s.

That first Gen Miata was amazing, pretty much a street legal go kart. I didn't realize how much fun a "slow" car could be until I drove one in anger but at 6ft2 it wasn't very easy to get in and out of.
 
I've been wondering what a good RWD , stick shift preferably naturally aspirated engine coupe or sedan if that exists would make a good daily. My corolla while reliable is a real snail , twice as much HP and x10 the weight hence would like something more zippy.

Mostly been considering the Nissan 370z , been in production for 10 years now with a reliable v6 albeit I haven't test driven it.
Don't think I'd care about the lack of electronics, less things to go wrong, only thing I can think of is bluetooth which is should have.... right?

Would likely try out the BRZ & Miata but the performance from those is almost half as much compared to the Z - they aren't as dated atleast.

Then there's the Mustang & Camaro, both are a hell of a lot more spacious & comfortable than the above, only thing that worries me with these is the reliability hence the preference for the Nissan atm.

Is there anything else I could be missing from this list, anyone got experience with these?

Have written off most of the euro cars, BMW, Audi for the garbage reliability on them.

My brother works for GM and he says the Camaro is a really good car. They have few problems with them and having a Cadillac chassis they are extremely solid. Can't speak for the Stang. The GM six gives you almost LS1 performance. Nissan of today is not the Nissan of yore for reliability according to CR. They are in fact Renault. The Z is a great sports car but lacks space. You might as well get a Corvette and vault yourself into real performance territory if space isn't a consideration. Best choice for reliability is the slightly mundane Toyota, also lacking space and modestly powered in comparison.
 
VW GTI or Golf R spec. Probably the most practical sports car out there. I've had mine for over 8 years now.Extremely reliable , fit and finish , interior styling are way better than anything comparable from Ford, GM etc. You can use them as A daily driver in the winter without any issues. I have snow tires and commute over 120 km per day and never had any problems. I have almost 230,000 km s and did my first brake job at 185,000 km. Other than that just basic maintenance , oil changes every 15,000 km. You to get a 10 year rust warranty. The only other car I considered at the time was a Suburu WRX STI.

My brother currently has a GTI 2.0T which he loves. But he got bit by the cam chain issue and had to get the motor replaced. I don't have the details other than it's a known issue, so if OP is interested, check to see if it's affected and done.
 
I've been wondering what a good RWD , stick shift preferably naturally aspirated engine coupe or sedan if that exists would make a good daily. My corolla while reliable is a real snail , twice as much HP and x10 the weight hence would like something more zippy.

Mostly been considering the Nissan 370z , been in production for 10 years now with a reliable v6 albeit I haven't test driven it.
Don't think I'd care about the lack of electronics, less things to go wrong, only thing I can think of is bluetooth which is should have.... right?

Would likely try out the BRZ & Miata but the performance from those is almost half as much compared to the Z - they aren't as dated atleast.

Then there's the Mustang & Camaro, both are a hell of a lot more spacious & comfortable than the above, only thing that worries me with these is the reliability hence the preference for the Nissan atm.

Is there anything else I could be missing from this list, anyone got experience with these?

Have written off most of the euro cars, BMW, Audi for the garbage reliability on them.

When you refer to reliability, what did you have in mind? Every car is going to have some problems, some more serious than others. For me, as long as it doesn't strand me, the repair cost and effort out of warranty isn't outrageous or frequent, I'm not too bothered by it. Here's a tale of two Hondas:

I rate my 2001 Honda Odyssey as reliable, even though I had to get the transmission replaced. DRL unit failed, but it was easy to remove and resolder. Sliding door rollers disintegrated after 250,000 kms, but were easy to replace with parts from Lowes rather than buying the actual complete assembly from Honda for hundreds. Oh, the driver's side front spring did break, which was weird. Other than that, just fluid changes, tires, and brakes.

I rate my 2007 Acura MDX as a lemon because I had to get the motor replaced at 230,000 kms - I've never killed a motor before! Plus there are a lot of electronics that tend to go bad on it, mostly only repairable using Acura parts - $300 bluetooth module goes bad (and drains the battery causing you to need a new battery if not diagnosed in time), faulty compressor clutch relay (not only A/C fails, but can also drain battery), electronic shocks/struts that are about $1000 each and only last about 50,000 kms before degrading (I converted to the OEM non-electronic front struts and aftermarket rear shocks), water leaking into trunk through the body seam at the rear hatch, power steering pump o-ring failure, transmission range switch failure (doesn't allow starting in P, only in N). Then there's the wear and tear stuff - front control arms, stabilizer end links and bushings, broken headlight leveling sensor. I know there's more that I'm forgetting.
 
Sidenote: i do valet parking for a high end restaurant downtown as a side gig, lots and lots of really fun looking cars out there that once you actually sit behind the wheel you`re like..nope! Day job is automotive mfg. corporate slave.

Do you work with Gastby Valet??
 
My brother currently has a GTI 2.0T which he loves. But he got bit by the cam chain issue and had to get the motor replaced. I don't have the details other than it's a known issue, so if OP is interested, check to see if it's affected and done.

No chain. Timing belt. The kit (belt, tensioner, water pump, and thermostat) is about $700 aftermarket (and you may as well replace all the serpentine belts while you have the front clip off) + 4-6 hrs. labour, which is why many people play Timing Belt Roulette.
 
C7 Corvette Z06 ftw.
Production of the front engine vette comes to an end soon, as in days.
Savings on new ones, in stock are enormous.
I've owned a 5.0 mustang. I thought it was a fun car, m/t, coupe. Got down the 1320' in decent time, etc etc.
Then I bought a C7 Z06 last sept.
The car is rediculous.
End of story.
I don't drive it in the winter, but those that do, say they're great with proper tires(?)

C6 Z06 and up are the be-all and end-all if you want a car that will last "forever". Fiberglass/plastic body and aluminum frame will never rust, and I wonder why I never see any in the snow. Meanwhile I see 911's all the time (I love everything about them except the looks). Maybe it's the long wheelbase and low weight on the rear tires, which will be fixed in the next generation. Can't wait! That thing checks all the boxes for me, as long as most of the rumors are true.
 
C6 Z06 and up are the be-all and end-all if you want a car that will last "forever". Fiberglass/plastic body and aluminum frame will never rust, and I wonder why I never see any in the snow. Meanwhile I see 911's all the time (I love everything about them except the looks). Maybe it's the long wheelbase and low weight on the rear tires, which will be fixed in the next generation. Can't wait! That thing checks all the boxes for me, as long as most of the rumors are true.

Not too many in the snow, but they are out there. These cars aren't daily drivers, for most, so the grocery getters get used in the snow for the majority. AWD over the vette in my case, and being ocd, it would be impossible to keep it clean. And. We're allowed to suspend liability in the off season (45 day minimum, no max) the way we could with bikes when the world was a better place.
On the cdn forum, a member was posting pics frequently in the winter, from Saskatchewan. Studded snows are legal there. He raved about how good it was in -40C weather. (shown on his dash).
There's more room in the back than most people think. A new fridge from Home Depot is not going to fit, but......this is a sports car thread.
I don't think the fun factor can be equalled (Z06 with Z07 pkg), even for twice the money.
If you haven't already, try and take a C7 for a demo ride. It'll likely only be a Ray (460hp), but I'm certain you'll have a different opinion.......especially the rear end lightness(?) that I sure don't notice.
If someone lets you loose in a Z06 (650hp).....buckle up!!!
Summer only / 335's on the rear make it feel strapped to the pavement.
 

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