Covid era motorcycle adventure options. | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Covid era motorcycle adventure options.

jc100

Well-known member
when international flights resume I expect airbnb's to be deeply discounted to get guests under the roof
most hosts during regular times are fine with low occupancy rates
after several months empty they'll want guests every night

dining I can't say the same...the restaurant closures will reduce competition
gas will be cheap, but it's of zero consequence in my bike trip planning
When they resume I’m not sure we will like the prices of flights. Most articles I’ve read say expect at least a 50% increase in fares.
 

GreyGhost

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When they resume I’m not sure we will like the prices of flights. Most articles I’ve read say expect at least a 50% increase in fares.
I'll be shocked if it isn't 100% for the near future. Add in the likely distancing (ie. less revenue seats available per flight) to the likely reduction in business travellers filling uber-expensive seats (I think many businesses will finally realize that face-to-face is not required for the majority of meetings) and even at 100% bump, airlines may be less profitable than a few months ago.

I was talking to someone today trying to get their daughter home from Scotland. So far she is at $6300 with two cancelled flights and hopes she can get here next week. That is a one-way ticket. Cough.
 

MacDoc

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I'd say they want business and offering attractive fares - that's lower than normal reflecting low fuel costs

Screen Shot 2020-05-21 at May, 21    2020    2.37.17 PM.jpg
They will be after marketshare on the main routes. $729 round trip to Paris and a stop over in Iceland that you can extend. That's Canadian too.
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GreyGhost

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I'd say they want business and offering attractive fares - that's lower than normal reflecting low fuel costs

View attachment 43204
If it flies. Airlines have been taking a page out of Tesla's book. Collecting fees and then cancelling the flights and keeping the fees as a credit for future travel. Keeps cashflow up and who cares if some consumers get screwed in the process?

EDIT:
A very timely article.


Trudeau says the government needs to have “some very careful discussions with airlines” as well as Canadians to maintain a balance where travellers are “treated fairly” and the industry stays intact.

None of Canada’s major airlines are offering to return cash to passengers for the hundreds of thousands of flight cancellations since mid-March, opting instead to dole out 24-month vouchers that have left many customers frustrated over a service they paid for but have not received.
 
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MacDoc

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If anyone wants to they can get it back from the credit card company. Especially in a near term situation. Airlines cannot afford to piss off clients at this point in the game. There are still flights in and out of Pearson and very few cancelled
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J_F

gringo diablo
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When they resume I’m not sure we will like the prices of flights. Most articles I’ve read say expect at least a 50% increase in fares.
that seems logical, but it's hard to predict how it's going to settle out
if it becomes industry standard to leave the centre seat empty
basic economics = higher fare prices

if that becomes legislated coupled with an industry bailout, who knows?
the idea of margin for airlines may be out the window for many years

if the majority of airlines survive (with assistance) and compete for fares
it could be affordable..cheap gas is definitely in our favour
 

jc100

Well-known member
If anyone wants to they can get it back from the credit card company. Especially in a near term situation. Airlines cannot afford to piss off clients at this point in the game. There are still flights in and out of Pearson and very few cancelled
View attachment 43209

Air Canada and several other airlines have been playing fast and loose with cancelled flight fees etc. There a whole bunch of angry passengers and some class action lawsuits in the works. There’s no need to play that nice if you’re the only game in town when the dust clears.
 

MacDoc

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They won't be the only game in town - competition for travellers will be fierce as will competition for tourist dollars.
Fuel is typically 25-30% of a fare and it's way down.


New rules in the works in Europe

 
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jc100

Well-known member
They won't be the only game in town - competition for travellers will be fierce as will competition for tourist dollars.
Fuel is typically 25-30% of a fare and it's way down.


New rules in the works in Europe

Ok we will see. Avianca filed for bankruptcy a week or so ago (which is very big news for anything central and south america related). Virgin is on life support for their trans Atlantic routes and maybe gone for Oz. Gatwick in the UK has lost a significant amount of cargo traffic as airlines restructure. Nowhere has good news for airlines right now and the future doesn’t look rosy. When you can get on board it looks like there may be no hand luggage and boarding may take hours with text calls for boarding being touted to avoid congregations at boarding gates. Budget airlines can’t run their business model with social distancing and a middle seat removed so in Canada that can affect Westjet, Air Canada Rouge and maybe Transat (if they are still around as they were in merger talks not that long ago). Fuel prices are the least of their problems right now. If staff weren’t furloughed and they have found new work then there’s potential staff shortages too.

People that have flights booked for September have already found them cancelled.

I'd love to be optimistic but I think it’s going to be at least a year before we see anything approaching normality.
 

MacDoc

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People that have flights booked for September have already found them cancelled.
source ?? Airlines are really sensitive to customer attitude just now - if the cancellation is Covid related that is understandable...outright cancellation without offering an alternative flight I'd be surprised. Shifting a flight - sure.
It will be a slowish uptake and only expect low prices for the next year while oil is low and marketshare is being fought over. Govs are supporting major employers like airlines ....they cannot be seen to be using the pandemic to raise prices. Filing for bankruptcy is just a game shareholders play ....it rarely means an airline disappears....Virgin is being fought over ..https://skift.com/2020/05/15/who-wants-to-buy-an-airline-now-virgin-australia-is-wooing-bidders/

For the next year every passenger is a win and a booking is gold.
 
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Mad Mike

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I remember 911 -- I think that was a greater threat to airlines than COVID. They will return to normal within a few months, then if history repeats itself they will get into price wars to fill planes. Airlines carry passengers and cargo, once the cargo demand rebounds they will be reluctant to fly planes without passengers.
 

GreyGhost

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I remember 911 -- I think that was a greater threat to airlines than COVID.
I don't know about that. 911 was a singular event that could be mitigated quite easily (better security). The distancing within the flight, business realization that virtual meetings can be effective (and cost-efficient) and likely quarantine at each end of an international flight will be brutal for quite a while.
 

jc100

Well-known member
source ?? Airlines are really sensitive to customer attitude just now - if the cancellation is Covid related that is understandable...outright cancellation without offering an alternative flight I'd be surprised. Shifting a flight - sure.
It will be a slowish uptake and only expect low prices for the next year while oil is low and marketshare is being fought over. Govs are supporting major employers like airlines ....they cannot be seen to be using the pandemic to raise prices. Filing for bankruptcy is just a game shareholders play ....it rarely means an airline disappears....Virgin is being fought over ..https://skift.com/2020/05/15/who-wants-to-buy-an-airline-now-virgin-australia-is-wooing-bidders/

For the next year every passenger is a win and a booking is gold.
source is several flight forums for Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto airports I’m on.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
I don't know about that. 911 was a singular event that could be mitigated quite easily (better security). The distancing within the flight, business realization that virtual meetings can be effective (and cost-efficient) and likely quarantine at each end of an international flight will be brutal for quite a while.
Maybe. I was a frequent business traveler on 9/11. I remember the same feelings that virtual meetings would replace business travel, the fear people had over flight risks, and the wacky price gyrations airlines went through.

I see a lot of parallels. Business can be done virtually for a while -- eventually face-to-face dealing will return as it works best and businesses won't watch competitors beat them on relationships. As soon as the big wave of fear passes, passengers will forget about the 'petrie-dish factor' and get back on planes/busses/trains and ships in droves.

Humans recover surprisingly quickly from disasters and highly spooky situations, I'm optimistic that within a year is will be business as usual.
 

GreyGhost

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source is several flight forums for Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto airports I’m on.
You could both be right. Even if cancelled flights are only 3% of the total, it would be interesting to see what the bookings looked like. Are they selling 50% of the seats on the flights that go and 115% on the cancelled flights? Would they be that bold? 330 tickets at $1500 is a $500,000 interest free loan for two years (and some of it is forgivable as people don't end up using the credit). Do that with 3% of your flights and you have a decent business strategy as long as you are unethical.
 

jc100

Well-known member
Maybe. I was a frequent business traveler on 9/11. I remember the same feelings that virtual meetings would replace business travel, the fear people had over flight risks, and the wacky price gyrations airlines went through.

I see a lot of parallels. Business can be done virtually for a while -- eventually face-to-face dealing will return as it works best and businesses won't watch competitors beat them on relationships. As soon as the big wave of fear passes, passengers will forget about the 'petrie-dish factor' and get back on planes/busses/trains and ships in droves.

Humans recover surprisingly quickly from disasters and highly spooky situations, I'm optimistic that within a year is will be business as usual.
I agree, we are very resilient especially where money and convenience are concerned but this will be a very long year.
 

jc100

Well-known member
Does anyone know if Porter and Westjet have issues? I’ve seen a fair bit about AC and Transat but not much else. I’d like to gauge how much competition AC will have for southern destinations. First chance I get I’m off down south. Might be a while.
 

GreyGhost

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Does anyone know if Porter and Westjet have issues? I’ve seen a fair bit about AC and Transat but not much else. I’d like to gauge how much competition AC will have for southern destinations. First chance I get I’m off down south. Might be a while.
AFAIK, Porter has been completely grounded for quite a while and wasn't planning on a flight for a while yet. They haven't really had an opportunity to show whether they are going to behave badly or not.

Westjet is appealing to the government to exempt them from labour laws so they can whack most of their employees with less severance (with a mass layoff 16 weeks are required, WJ wants to provide much less).
 

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