COVID and the housing market | Page 240 | GTAMotorcycle.com

COVID and the housing market

nobbie48 said:
Cottage prices went nuts as well. Are they seeing a decline in price?
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The 2 cottages within a 5min walk of our place are still on the market. One has dropped pricing 2x with no movement.

As for cottages on the water in the nicer areas (not Wasaga away from the water) are still selling like hotcakes from what I understand.

@crankcall I think you're right. Same as everything else...nice location, nice place, and nice view will always rent. I still want my parents to start renting their cottage...could easily make 20k+ on it annually from rents.
 
nobbie48 said:
I was wondering how much a developer would pay for High Park.

There has been talk of allowing the consupmtion of alcohol in parks but in the case of High Park, John Howard gave the land to the city with a few conditions, one being that alcohol consumption not being permitted. If the conditions were broken the land reverts to his heirs.

400 acres at several million an acre would make it the world's most expensive wine bar.
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Technicalities.

AFAIK the agreement was that it never be severed, so BYOB to the party...
The park was not all from the Howard's, Ellis/Chapman and Ridout family lands are part of the park.
 
Oh politicians. Toronto is considering a 49% hike in DC's and pulling forward net zero by a decade.

DC for a single detached dwelling was $12k in 2009. If they pass the increase, it will be $140k. And then they have the balls to question why more affordable housing isnt being built. Ltt, dc and permit fees exceed the affordable threshold and you dont have a building or land yet.

storeys.com

Development Charges Hike Will Deter Housing Development

The City of Toronto is proposing increasing development charges by 49%, which will make building - and prices for buyers - more expensive.
storeys.com storeys.com
 
I stay at a Lake Erie cottage every summer ( it’s a lake house not cottage really) and the owner rents it to others at 5k per wk . 3 baths , 6 bdrms. Split between 5 couples , and there is room , it’s cheap . He rents it three weekends and that covers most costs of his season. Not the mortgage, but he wants to own a cottage . He turns down other guests so he can enjoy it .


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An ex girlfrends parents bought a 1970's house right on the lake just up from Crystal beach on lake Erie in 2016-2017 for 700k and change, I thought it was a ton of money at the time. Now probably worth 1.4-1.5 judging by what others are selling for. I think half of that shoreline is American owners that drive up for the weekend.
 
My borrowed place is at LongBeach about 15kms west of port Colborne, it’s nice and yes a LOT of the neighbours are American, when your cottage on the nicer shoreline is 35% less with Yankee dollars , that’s big .
Being an hour from Buffalo or an hour from Hamilton is a huge draw .


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crankcall said:
My borrowed place is at LongBeach about 15kms west of port Colborne, it’s nice and yes a LOT of the neighbours are American, when your cottage on the nicer shoreline is 35% less with Yankee dollars , that’s big .
Being an hour from Buffalo or an hour from Hamilton is a huge draw .


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If they wanted to boat to the cottage, can you use the nexus pass to go straight to the cottage (maybe declare arrival with arrivecan or something?) Or do you have to hit an official checkpoint every time?
 
danp said:
Somebody is suing realtors alleging price fixing: https://www.cbc.ca/news/marketplace/price-fixing-real-estate-1.6458531
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Interesting strategy (agents can see buyers agent commission but that is hidden from public. Agents steer buyers away from dwellings with lower commission). Seems like it could have legs.

In a typical BS statement ""Our business is very competitive," said Rui Alves, chairman and CEO of iPro Realty in a statement to CBC News. "It's the market that sets the rate, not MLS rules or collusion between brokerages."" Like bleep the market sets the rate. Offer less than 2.5% buyer agent commission and you are blacklisted.

"Still, it's rare to see sellers offering rates lower than the standard buyer's commission. According to Toronto real estate agent Alan Spivak, sellers offering commissions of less than 2.5 per cent to buyer brokerages in the Toronto area represented less than one per cent of total listings at the time of his review.

"This is consistent with my experience for all residential real estate in the GTA since at least 2010,'' he wrote in an affidavit included in Sunderland's statement of claim.""

So the market sets the rate but only 1% of people try to pay the buyers agent who they have no relationship with less than five figures? That seems implausible. The simple solution if you want the seller to keep picking up the bill seems to be make it illegal for buyers commission to be disclosed prior to a signed deal. If the realtor is working for the client instead of themselves, that number shouldn't matter.
 
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Yeah I'm curious to see what comes of this. It's surprising realtors were able to get away with this for so long. The article mentions they do things much more fairly in the UK and Australia.
 
GreyGhost said:
Interesting strategy (agents can see buyers agent commission but that is hidden from public. Agents steer buyers away from dwellings with lower commission). Seems like it could have legs.

In a typical BS statement ""Our business is very competitive," said Rui Alves, chairman and CEO of iPro Realty in a statement to CBC News. "It's the market that sets the rate, not MLS rules or collusion between brokerages."" Like bleep the market sets the rate. Offer less than 2.5% buyer agent commission and you are blacklisted.
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While I agree that agents are ridiculously overpaid for the work that they do (selling agents at least), there are many options of 1% or less commission brokerages / agents that will take your business.

My friends setup this site a while back, not sure how active it is anymore, but they said the most competitive rates that were being offered by agents were the high volume (Frank LEO, McDadi, etc.) because they always made their money on volume and speed. They had multiple teams of agents working for them, and they would just take their cut.

feeduck.com

Home owners

[Do not edit this page directly. Page content can be edited by going to Appearance > Widgets and editing the widgets in the “Front Page: Home Owner” section.]
feeduck.com feeduck.com

In the end, the market is totally stacked against the buyer and I think there should be FULL transparency in the process.

- Competing bids? Show me. I won't take your word on it.
- My price is too low? Prove it.
- Why can't I see that house? It's on MLS and you're talking me out of it. Why?

The biggest issue is that people continue to think that they NEED agents. They don't. But they have the market so locked down, it's impossible NOT to use them.

It's like our politics...choose the least worst option.

BTW, the 'friends and family' discount is all bullcrap. Agents expect their F&F to pay full price because 'don't you want to support me in this business?' We were lucky our friend realtor gave us a 1% discount on the sale of our property. But her 2.5% for buying our current house was a total waste as we did the majority of the work.
 
GreyGhost said:
Interesting strategy (agents can see buyers agent commission but that is hidden from public. Agents steer buyers away from dwellings with lower commission). Seems like it could have legs.

In a typical BS statement ""Our business is very competitive," said Rui Alves, chairman and CEO of iPro Realty in a statement to CBC News. "It's the market that sets the rate, not MLS rules or collusion between brokerages."" Like bleep the market sets the rate. Offer less than 2.5% buyer agent commission and you are blacklisted.

"Still, it's rare to see sellers offering rates lower than the standard buyer's commission. According to Toronto real estate agent Alan Spivak, sellers offering commissions of less than 2.5 per cent to buyer brokerages in the Toronto area represented less than one per cent of total listings at the time of his review.

"This is consistent with my experience for all residential real estate in the GTA since at least 2010,'' he wrote in an affidavit included in Sunderland's statement of claim.""

So the market sets the rate but only 1% of people try to pay the buyers agent who they have no relationship with less than five figures? That seems implausible. The simple solution if you want the seller to keep picking up the bill seems to be make it illegal for buyers commission to be disclosed prior to a signed deal. If the realtor is working for the client instead of themselves, that number shouldn't matter.
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this 100% happens. my current home was listed this way (low commission for buying agent) and was on the market for awhile even with a low price compared to same units. Buying agents avoided it.

I play agents at their own game and when I buy. I don't use a buying agent. We find listings and compare prices on housesigma ourselves.
Agent represents both buyer and seller, earning both commission. It's a big difference on a 1mil+ property.
Gives me bargaining room, last two houses I got to pay the price I wanted because the agent was smart and reduced their commission.

You have to know what you are doing though. Dad is a contractor so will do home inspection. We really research areas and sold prices to know what price we should be paying.
 
GreyGhost said:
If they wanted to boat to the cottage, can you use the nexus pass to go straight to the cottage (maybe declare arrival with arrivecan or something?) Or do you have to hit an official checkpoint every time?
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You have to arrive at a ‘ designated port’ . Then you phone in , they take all your info and tell you to wait usually about 1 hr in case an agent shows up . They may or may not . Then your considered clear , boats over 30ft have a pre clearance sticker and you give them the number . Most large ports or marinas are considered a landing point , then it’s a jaunt to where your cottage is .


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killvino said:
this 100% happens. my current home was listed this way (low commission for buying agent) and was on the market for awhile even with a low price compared to same units. Buying agents avoided it.

I play agents at their own game and when I buy. I don't use a buying agent. We find listings and compare prices on housesigma ourselves.
Agent represents both buyer and seller, earning both commission. It's a big difference on a 1mil+ property.
Gives me bargaining room, last two houses I got to pay the price I wanted because the agent was smart and reduced their commission.

You have to know what you are doing though. Dad is a contractor so will do home inspection. We really research areas and sold prices to know what price we should be paying.
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Sounds like the episode I watched on CBC marketplace
 
mimico_polak said:
Realtors estimating price increases in cottage country as the rest of the housing market stalls....

www.thestar.com

Not headed to your cottage this weekend? If you still hope to buy one, expect ‘a dogfight’

Prices are dropping in the GTA, but in Ontario’s vacation spots supply is tight and price tags are rising, realtors say.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Curious how this one plays out.
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Cottages are different because many are subject to cap gains already. The buy, fix, flip crowd wouldn't be as interested.
 
I think you’d be surprised on the flip cottage business , it’s happening on select lakes . What nobody wants to work on are water access places and really remote , but if you can back a truck in, it’s a target. And capital gains are only a percentage , have a good accountant and it’s less …..


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mimico_polak said:
Realtors estimating price increases in cottage country as the rest of the housing market stalls....

www.thestar.com

Not headed to your cottage this weekend? If you still hope to buy one, expect ‘a dogfight’

Prices are dropping in the GTA, but in Ontario’s vacation spots supply is tight and price tags are rising, realtors say.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Curious how this one plays out.
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I think they are just trying to create a last gasp boom before they crash.

IF/WHEN people start to struggle to pay for their houses (interest rate increases) and IF/WHEN housing costs start to go down even a bit the cottages market will see a larger correction. Still a big IF/WHEN but in the end it is recreational property.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I think they are just trying to create a last gasp boom before they crash.

IF/WHEN people start to struggle to pay for their houses (interest rate increases) and IF/WHEN housing costs start to go down even a bit the cottages market will see a larger correction. Still a big IF/WHEN but in the end it is recreational property.
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It doesn't take many days of cottage rental to cover the mortgage. Stop using it as a recreational property, start using it as an income property and you are laughing.
 
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