Coronavirus

[crankcall]

Carnival cruise potential itineraries are out for an Aug startup, leaving from FLA , Port Everglades and Canaveral , visiting a host of small islands. Social distance is impossible on a cruise ship.
I can understand how much is at stake here to try an keep an industry 'afloat' , but so much wrong with this idea. I love cruise ships and I'm not going for at least a year.

 

[nobbie48]

Carnival cruise potential itineraries are out for an Aug startup, leaving from FLA , Port Everglades and Canaveral , visiting a host of small islands. Social distance is impossible on a cruise ship.
I can understand how much is at stake here to try an keep an industry 'afloat' , but so much wrong with this idea. I love cruise ships and I'm not going for at least a year.

It can cost a billion and a half to build a top of the line ship and I'm a few bucks short to snap one up at list price.

What is one of these things worth today at auction?

As an auctioneer said "It's worth what I get for it."

I assume someone is holding the mortgage and what do they get when the good ship lollypop capsizes in red ink?

 

[Gary]

Hey, are you dumber than a pigeon?

 

[GreyGhost]

It can cost a billion and a half to build a top of the line ship and I'm a few bucks short to snap one up at list price.

What is one of these things worth today at auction?

As an auctioneer said "It's worth what I get for it."

I assume someone is holding the mortgage and what do they get when the good ship lollypop capsizes in red ink?

If companies a,b and c are bailing due to lack of demand, that puts a lot of used ships on the market. Why would company d think they could do better? About the only way that makes sense is they get the 1.5B ship for 50 cents on the dollar or less. Anything close to full price and company d is no better off.

I don't know who is holding the loans on these ships, but I would need new underwear if it was me. As most have sketchy low-tax registry of convenience, dont expect a high priced govt to bail you out (although they might if you promised to repatriate the vessels).

 

[nobbie48]

If companies a,b and c are bailing due to lack of demand, that puts a lot of used ships on the market. Why would company d think they could do better? About the only way that makes sense is they get the 1.5B ship for 50 cents on the dollar or less. Anything close to full price and company d is no better off.

I don't know who is holding the loans on these ships, but I would need new underwear if it was me. As most have sketchy low-tax registry of convenience, dont expect a high priced govt to bail you out (although they might if you promised to repatriate the vessels).

When buying something purely on spec one shouldn't pay more than 10% of the assumed value. Commodities are different as there is a defined market.

 

[crankcall]

Cruise ships do not have sketchy registry, all Royal Caribbean fleet are registered in the Bahamas, Holland America is registered in Holland, Carnival is registered in Panama and Bahamas , Celebrity are registered in Malta.

There are no cruise ships , zero, registered in Liberia.

used cruise ships and second tier boats get sold into the euro and asian markets doing mediterrainian runs and south china/indo china runs where the market is 12 months of the year. They dont move the fleet like big players. The boats are cents on the dollar when a big name is done, however the operating costs are almost the same. You can find lots of Italian/Greek trips on Iberian cruiselines for much less than say Royal Norwegian, but it will be an old boat (if that matters) .

Mortgages on these boats are held by a variety of investment companies, Carnival (who own a half dozen lines) self finance some through holding companies, insurance companies have money in these things. Its a really big business, and since the crews are pulled from ALL over the planet, its not just a FLA company that implodes, it starves a town in the Philippines , the on board shops are run by south africans, musicians are from eastern europe, cooks from all over europe. This truely is a global business.

But i'm still not going for a year.....

 

[PrivatePilot]

If cruise ships running out of the USA were actually registered in the USA the costs of cruises would go up by a factor of 2 or more as the costs would drastically higher.

And we all know that since consumers want cheap, and shareholders want profits, that isn't going to happen.

Royal Caribbean is working on branded facemasks but the problem is....you can't get two people in the USA right now to agree that the earth is round right now, much less agree to universally wear facemasks anytime they're outside their stateroom on a ship. And that doesn't solve the issue of what happens when people have to take them off to eat..which happens often on a ship as anyone who's cruised would know LOL. And then there's the conspiracy crowd who will just refuse to wear them for whatever reason they've dreamed up to justify it in their heads.

Unless the punishment for non compliance is "you're disembarked at the next port, goodbye" it's not a perfect solution. And even then, if the next port is 1 or 2 days away you potentially have a spreader wandering around the ship unless they forcefully confine them to their stateroom, which honestly, might be what they have to do.

As I've mentioned, we're big cruisers...but I see any vacations in the latter half of this summer being outdoorsy solo or small group things, not a cruise.

 

[GreyGhost]

So we have had some members say things in anger and then apologize because the stress of this situation is getting to them. Do we think that people are losing the ability to repress true feelings or just lashing out at anything because they are at their limit?

A moron in Brampton (was school council chair and re/max agent) sent out a very ill conceived tweet regarding muslims and he has now been canned by everyone. He was annoyed that Brampton allowed mosques to broadcast the call to prayer five times a day which would typically be in violation of the noise by-law.

 

[regder]

Interesting article, I'm sure there will be many more like this

How Profit and Incompetence Delayed N95 Masks While People Died at the VA

Federal agencies have hired contractors with no experience to find respirators and masks, fueling a black market filled with price gouging and multiple layers of profiteering brokers. One contractor called them “buccaneers and pirates.”

www.propublica.org

 

[GreyGhost]

Interesting article, I'm sure there will be many more like this

How Profit and Incompetence Delayed N95 Masks While People Died at the VA

Federal agencies have hired contractors with no experience to find respirators and masks, fueling a black market filled with price gouging and multiple layers of profiteering brokers. One contractor called them “buccaneers and pirates.”

www.propublica.org

The scarier thing are the number of those that went through and will never see light. I have no idea why the federal government would go anywhere other than the manufacturer for this. 3M can provide xxx million masks at $2 each. Open call to everyone else that can wrangle masks from a warehouse/other supplier at 2.50 payable when they show up at the govt depot. Govt offering up 350% markups just makes the supply chain messier but provides no more PPE.

 

[Evoex]

I just noticed there's an air soft rifle on the banned firearms list. Lol...

And he's banning weapons that aren't even legal to own in the first place.

Is this real life?

 

[regder]

The scarier thing are the number of those that went through and will never see light. I have no idea why the federal government would go anywhere other than the manufacturer for this. 3M can provide xxx million masks at $2 each. Open call to everyone else that can wrangle masks from a warehouse/other supplier at 2.50 payable when they show up at the govt depot. Govt offering up 350% markups just makes the supply chain messier but provides no more PPE.

I'm not sure of the exact answer but I suspect it has something to do with supply constraints.

There's also the story of New York signing a $69m contract for ventilators on a tip from the White House after the guy tweeted DT. Amazingly, no ventilators materialized.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The scarier thing are the number of those that went through and will never see light. I have no idea why the federal government would go anywhere other than the manufacturer for this. 3M can provide xxx million masks at $2 each.

3M cant come even close to meeting demand right now, that's why.

I just noticed there's an air soft rifle on the banned firearms list. Lol...

Wrong thread.

 

[killvino]

I just noticed there's an air soft rifle on the banned firearms list. Lol...

And he's banning weapons that aren't even legal to own in the first place.

Is this real life?

think you posted in the wrong thread

 

[xfactor]

So we have had some members say things in anger and then apologize because the stress of this situation is getting to them. Do we think that people are losing the ability to repress true feelings or just lashing out at anything because they are at their limit?

A moron in Brampton (was school council chair and re/max agent) sent out a very ill conceived tweet regarding muslims and he has now been canned by everyone. He was annoyed that Brampton allowed mosques to broadcast the call to prayer five times a day which would typically be in violation of the noise by-law.

I don't know this councilor or his mandate. But, I absolutely don't want some fkn call to prayer to wake me up under any circumstances. I spend half my time in Dubai and KL Malaysia and it's annoying as hell. So, equality and PC aside and with all due respect to my Islam brothers, just don't wake me up bro...when I don't have to.

 

[GreyGhost]

I don't know this councilor or his mandate. But, I absolutely don't want some fkn call to prayer to wake me up under any circumstances. I spend half my time in Dubai and KL Malaysia and it's annoying as hell. So, equality and PC aside and with all due respect to my Islam brothers, just don't wake me up bro...when I don't have to.

That is a reasonable point. His problem was he went all goat lane on the issue. And he was a school councilor, this problem is entirely outside of his job description, he is just a private citizen in the matter.

 

[mimico_polak]

That is a reasonable point. His problem was he went all goat lane on the issue. And he was a school councilor, this problem is entirely outside of his job description, he is just a private citizen in the matter.

I'm all for religious freedom...but blasting prayer through the entire town (or whatever the reach is) is not cool with me. And this isn't 'hate'....you practice your faith in your place of worship, and I'll practice mine in my place of worship. You don't want Polka being blasted on speakers all day long I'm sure...

 

[backmarkerducati]

Time of day thing maybe, but what about christian church bells???

 

[PrivatePilot]

Slippery slope thing. I don't care if it's church bells, a call to prayer, construction, a party....whatever - noise regulations are there for a reason and there better be a damned good reason to subject the public to any exemption to them. Religion IMHO is not one of those reasons.

 

[crankcall]

wait a minute, your religeon gets polka music?? mine gets really lame hymns written in the 14th century, with a lot of whoms and thyn will be done. I'll trade anytime dude.

I like Christian church bells , once a week, noon sunday maybe. 5 times a day?, no, no thank you.

They could just ride goats in the bike lanes, they dont need a goat lane. Long as they put a bell on it