Cornering situation | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cornering situation

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Actually I'd say the biggest things about riding on the street as opposed to anywhere else are that:

1. There's traffic coming at you in the other lane
2. That traffic is sometimes unpredictable and probably distracted
3. If you haven't been on that road before you have no idea about the sand/gravel/dead moose/tractor/oil spill/pothole the size of Mongolia/minivan full of children having a toilet break that may be round a corner that you can't see clearly.
 
RockerGuy said:
Learning to drift that rear in and you might have an advantage over those who don't.

Nothing feels as awesome as drifting your rear tire
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My post had nothing at all to do with drifting... its simple dynamics, you're creating a slight drag on the rear wheel and it tightens the turning radius of the bike. I'd suggest everyone give this a try at some point or another.. just a slight pressure on the brake while you're turning, and see what it does to the bike. You don't have to be dragging your knee or going 120mph, nor do you have to be drifting or backing it in.
 
Murf and Mr Naked are posting a solid and proven technique on how to tighten your line around a corner, yet you're saying they're not being constructive. Have you tried this technique? Btw it has nothing to do with having a knee down or drifting the back wheel. It's simply dragging the rear brake to tighten up one's line.

As mentioned earlier some rider's are too afraid of their rear brake and have not developed the finesse required to do this. If you never tried how can you tell someone that this is incorrect?


FriendlyFoe said:
lol +1. You cant really expect people to be constructive on the interweb. Well you can but you'll probably be really disappointed.

OP needs to take a course, dragging the rear brake at half lean is not the way to tighten your line around a corner. As soon as you roll off the gas weight transfers to the front end making the rear even easier to lock, hence it being a fall down button. As long as you dont have the front at 40+ psi dragging the front asks for grip out of the tire that actually has some weight on it, reduces trail and well help the bike steer in addition to added bar input.

The biggest thing for riding on the street is to not constantly be on/off the gas. Brake, turn in, maintenance throttle and dont roll into the throttle until you can see far enough that you know you wont have to roll off again.

You can obviously push harder then that with advanced skills, but that's not what we're talking about. Dont think the OP has posted back anyway, this is probably all troll fodder.
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dextasy said:
Murf and Mr Naked are posting a solid and proven technique on how to tighten your line around a corner, yet you're saying they're not being constructive. Have you tried this technique? Btw it has nothing to do with having a knee down or drifting the back wheel. It's simply dragging the rear brake to tighten up one's line. ?
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This is a Good and proven technique and is one of the things we actually teach in advanced classes.

These are some of the exceptions to the post I made about people not being constructive and making a joke out of a serious question
 
yeah, but the OP was asking about the oh **** moment he experiences when he goes into a corner a little hot and finds himself running out of real estate fast.

In such a situation, I think the last thing he should be doing is experimenting with the rear brake if he doesn't have the skill or practice doing so. Rather, he should continue to do what he's already doing: leaning the bike, but harder.

Regardless, the OP and others in similar situations should take courses to increase their skill level, learning on the track instead of on the street.
 
BusaBob said:
yeah, but the OP was asking about the oh **** moment he experiences when he goes into a corner a little hot and finds himself running out of real estate fast.

In such a situation, I think the last thing he should be doing is experimenting with the rear brake if he doesn't have the skill or practice doing so. Rather, he should continue to do what he's already doing: leaning the bike, but harder.

Regardless, the OP and others in similar situations should take courses to increase their skill level, learning on the track instead of on the street.
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exactly

Outlaws Justice said:
This is a Good and proven technique and is one of the things we actually teach in advanced classes.

These are some of the exceptions to the post I made about people not being constructive and making a joke out of a serious question
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As someone who teaches, I'm surprised that you offered any input or advice other than to say, "come to the track and we can help you". Any other advice here, no matter how well intentioned (and some posters have had good advice, but is still prone to misuse due to all the variables I mentioned earlier) is taking for granted that they knew his skill and speed, the corner, his bike, his tires, how worn his tires were, the surface etc etc It is the point I made earlier and will reiterate because obviously few here got it. The big assume here is that he was not already at the limit for all the parameters I just mentioned and he could have been already on the cusp of a low or high side. Using his rear brake, combined with the deceleration of backing outta the throttle when the holy**** moment happens, my guess would be a high side.

If this rider was already at the limit and he were to do some of what has been suggested in this thread, he could crash into the path of oncoming and be dead. Pretty sure that isn't what you wanted, so like I said in the beginning..I suspected this thread to be a train wreck and about the only two things we can properly advise this guy on is to take it to the track with proper instruction, and don't go all out on the street, especially on unknown roads.
 
BusaBob said:
yeah, but the OP was asking about the oh **** moment he experiences when he goes into a corner a little hot and finds himself running out of real estate fast.

In such a situation, I think the last thing he should be doing is experimenting with the rear brake if he doesn't have the skill or practice doing so. Rather, he should continue to do what he's already doing: leaning the bike, but harder.

Regardless, the OP and others in similar situations should take courses to increase their skill level, learning on the track instead of on the street.
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That's why its advised to PRACTICE the skill, not just to have it in the back of your mind when you encounter an "OH ****" moment. Like I said, everyone should fiddle with their rear brake in turns, very lightly, to see the effect for themselves. The brake is there, and it's a valuable tool in more than just one situation.... I don't understand people who fear it. You guys don't have the dexterity/sensitivity to manipulate the rear brake without crashing? Then maybe you shouldn't be riding at all..
 
dextasy said:
Have you tried this technique? Btw it has nothing to do with having a knee down or drifting the back wheel. It's simply dragging the rear brake to tighten up one's line.

As mentioned earlier some rider's are too afraid of their rear brake and have not developed the finesse required to do this. If you never tried how can you tell someone that this is incorrect?
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The constructive comment was just a general jab at internet forums.

I'm not debating the physics of slowing the rear tire, and for a motorcycle that runs out of ground clearance the technique could be incredibly useful. On a sportbike (okay i guessed that from the OP's avatar) you have so much control on line input with steering and lean angle that if i need to tighten my line mid corner my knee is going to be planted on the ground which in a right hander limits access to the rear brake.

Take it for what it's worth *shrugs* i dont see the merits on a sport oriented bike of being at half lean and dragging the rear brake, over good body positioning and leaning the bike.
 
FriendlyFoe said:
Take it for what it's worth *shrugs* i dont see the merits on a sport oriented bike of being at half lean and dragging the rear brake, over good body positioning and leaning the bike.
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It's worth $0.00 because you obviously don't have the necessary skill or any knowledge of how to implement the technique.

Take that for what its worth.
 
nesobriquet said:
As someone who teaches, I'm surprised that you offered any input or advice other than to say, "come to the track and we can help you". Any other advice here, no matter how well intentioned (and some posters have had good advice, but is still prone to misuse due to all the variables I mentioned earlier) is taking for granted that they knew his skill and speed, the corner, his bike, his tires, how worn his tires were, the surface etc etc It is the point I made earlier and will reiterate because obviously few here got it. The big assume here is that he was not already at the limit for all the parameters I just mentioned and he could have been already on the cusp of a low or high side. Using his rear brake, combined with the deceleration of backing outta the throttle when the holy**** moment happens, my guess would be a high side.

If this rider was already at the limit and he were to do some of what has been suggested in this thread, he could crash into the path of oncoming and be dead. Pretty sure that isn't what you wanted, so like I said in the beginning..I suspected this thread to be a train wreck and about the only two things we can properly advise this guy on is to take it to the track with proper instruction, and don't go all out on the street, especially on unknown roads.
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Maybe you did not read my first post.?? NOTE: I started by stating that there are variables that have to be address first. Please see the following.

"Thats great advice, but unless you tell him (or her) what they need to do to "Be Smooth" that will be difficult to do. There are several things a person needs to work on to "Be smooth"

So you are coming into a decrerasing radius turn. There are a couple ways to handle this.

1. Do a double apex
2. if you know it is decreasing ahead of time, change your turn in point to later into the turn.

Depending on your initial turn in point and lean angle pushing on the inside grip a little more and leaning more should get you thru the turn as well.

We teach trail breaking and cornering in Total COntrol Level I and we cover and teach different techniques for decreasing radius turn in Total Control Level II. (All of which is in Toronto)""


Now please rmember that most riders are not going to go to the track and many track riders do not ride the street. I teach all levels of riding both street and dirt, from basic to advanced, parking lots to race tracks. There are things the OP can try and practice in a safe environment so that when this happens again he has tools in the tool box to handle this situation. If he or shee has the time and money to invest in a Total Control class in Toronto so much the better for them.
 
"If he or shee has the time and money to invest in a Total Control class in Toronto so much the better for them."

Yup, I agree big time.
 
awyala said:
Draw a tightening turn on paper, then draw an ideal racing line, and you will see you have a double apex.
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Not always, you can come into the turn farther have a delayed turn point and make it with one turn point and be on the throttle sooner and have more speed out of the turn. If I KNOW if is decreasing radius Like at the track, I will use the one delayed turn point over two turn points any time.
 
Zoltar said:
Ok. So I have noticed at times when I take a corner at above moderate speeds when I come into this situation. If the corner suddenly becomes sharper on an unfamiliar road I let off on the throttle and gently apply the rear brake then back on the throttle. I think to my self I shouldn't do that but lean more instead. Am I going too fast or am I doing something right/wrong? I havent taking any on track courses. Thinking about it this summer.Any recommendations positive or negative requested. Thanks Kev
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Don't go too fast through unknown corners! Even on the track - you first familiarize with the track layout (during practice sessions), only then start pushing your limits...
 
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FriendlyFoe said:
Hasn't anyone ever told you that the rear brake is for falling down? There's a reason they make the front brake hand controlled and the rear foot. On a hot sticky day that front tire can take a lot of braking force before it's going to let go, its so easy to lock a rear which is going to end badly for you mid corner.
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This is the type of advice to new riders that get them afraid of the rear brake to begin with......just sayin'
 
I Knew how to ride when I came to work, but now I'm confused, **** how am I going to get home :confused:
 
dextasy said:
This is the type of advice to new riders that get them afraid of the rear brake to begin with......just sayin'
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Kind of the point. Slowing either wheel will make the bike turn, dragging the front reduces trail and asks for traction from the tire that actually has weight on it. If you get surprised mid corner by a decreasing radius turn leaning the bike to the edge of the tire is going to make the bike turn more then dragging the rear at the same amount of lean.

That has always been my logic, if it is flawed please feel free to point out why.

Wiki is far from a bible on motorcycling, but whats up seems to support my logic.

"Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake even though trailing the rear brake will effectively slow the motorcycle, also decreasing the turning radius. If the motorcycle is leaned over, forces from the front brake and the deceleration causes the motorcycle to yaw (lean), while use of the rear brake generates a torque that tends to align (straighten) and stabilize the motorcycle.[SUP][2]"[/SUP]
 
:lol: have you actually ridden a motorcycle? I've yet to find one that actually wants to lean MORE when applying the front brake.... christ almighty :-|

If you apply the front brake during a turn, or trail brake into a turn, you have to apply more pressure on the handlebars to counteract the forces that want to stand the bike up. This is why its important to be smooth coming off the front brake when trail-braking, because the bike will want to fall into the turn as you release braking pressure.


God damn, now I'm forgetting how to ride from all the garbage jargon in this thread. Jeeezus.
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