Contemplating a new ride for 2020. Suggestions? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Contemplating a new ride for 2020. Suggestions?

that CTX1300 looks like an interesting option
but the reviews are....not great, this from MCN

The Honda CTX’s styling is unconventional and brave but it isn’t a serious cruiser.
It does everything well, but lacks character and soul and doesn’t feel very special.
You could almost describe it as a scooter. It’s good in so many ways but just a little bland and dull.
 
Agree with the others regarding ECU flash. Many FI bikes suffer from lean fuel maps and poor throttle response and find an update does improve things a lot.




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How about this?

Honda v4 reliability and comes with side and top cases....
And under 10,000km too.

Good price...hubby bought one in 2018 in red...came off of a FZ1...he liked it for the bit that he rode it last year...has a weird whistling sound but according to the forums and reviews, it's normal...
 
Agree. Many bikes come from the factory incredibly lean to pass emissions and driveability (and sometimes power) can be substantially improved with a flash. As you said, the tuner/package chosen tells you a lot. If they picked the "screw the fuel economy, I want exhaust flames" tune, that bike is not for you. If they picked the "removes the giant flat spot from 3000 to 5000" tune, that sounds like a great idea.
And to add, both big HD tourers and Victory's have heat issues on the rear cylinder. I can say that in Victory's case it's a emissions created lean issue. After I had my bike modded/dyno'd it both ran better and much cooler.
 
I agree. Both Harley’s I’ve had run cooler, smoother and just pull cleaner after intake, exhaust and tune. Big thing being the tune. There really isn’t a reason not to do the above.

I didn’t dyno tune. Just canned tunes and away I go. With as many of them running around out there all the tuning shops should have a pretty good map for bolt ons.

If I got into a big bore, cams etc I would be looking for a dyno tune though.
 
I didn't know that CTX1300 existed. Lovely long term ride. I must wonder that it's considered mid-size. :unsure:

$_59.JPG
 
Cam chain issue is an easy fix. Knock money off price if it hasn't been touched. Most get dealer serviced so call the dealer they used and get the service history from the service desk

The "knock money off the price" thing is impossible with Harley Owners. Some still think their 20 year old bike is worth 90% of what it's original MSRP no matter what's wrong with it. To be fair, there's LOTS of Metric owners who are the same, but the difference with the HD's is that most HD sellers also know that sooner or later some s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ buyer will come along and buy it either not caring that the engine is a ticking timebomb, or more often than not, having zero clue whatsoever until it blows up and they're staring down a $5000 engine job at the HD dealership.

Dealer service history can be a great tool for a bike with a small ownership history, but when you're looking at bikes in the 15-20 year old category, even though they may only have 20,000KM on them some have gone through 6 or 10 owners, and dealership history could be muddy at best then, not including the DIY backyard mechanic jobs.

Yeah the cam chain tensioner upgrade isn't hard to do. Mostly a lot time to get into the cam chest, because a lot of parts have to be removed. But once you are there it's a piece of cake. The parts are only around $100. I did mine this past fall because they do wear out, but I have the updated version. Doing this at a HD shop is around $500-$600.

5 of 10 years ago I'd have done this sort of job in a heartbeat, but now having back issues, and as of last summer, my new friend sciatica (a few may remember the post about my agonizing ride home from Montreal), I've lost interest in in-depth wrenching. Yeah, I'm still going to do my own oil changes and such, but spending hours on my hands and knees bent over a bike to do more in depth jobs, well, I'll just take it to a shop now.

And I want to avoid that requirement as much as possible as it just drives up the cost of ownership.

I find premium fuel to be a plus in bikes, whether they need it or not. Sure there are a few bucks extra, but you can avoid Ethanol mixes which means a decent gain in fuel economy, and less maintenance for fuel systems, no detonation, plugs last longer and you carbonization is reduced.

Almost all premium fuels have ethanol now, the only exceptions being Shell 91+, and Canadian Tire premium. ALL other pump octane at any other brands of stations has ethanol now, so pumping premium into a bike (or ANY engine) that doesn't call for it or require it is a complete and total waste of money.

Now, the gas companies would like everyone to believe that using premium fuel even in engines that don't need it will yield "cleaner fuel systems", and "better performance", but it's all bunk - pure marketing to pad their margins. If your engine calls for 87, burn 87.

As for the tune flash, this can be done for a variety of driveability reasons, not just to unlock performance. I would check the reputation of the tune/tuner, that would be more important to me than the fact an ECU has been flashed.
Agree. Many bikes come from the factory incredibly lean to pass emissions and driveability (and sometimes power) can be substantially improved with a flash..... If they picked the "removes the giant flat spot from 3000 to 5000" tune, that sounds like a great idea.

I got more info on the Vulcan I'm eyeballing and the bike has an Ivan Tune (WELL recognized and regarded) which does indeed seem to be built only marginally around HP and torque increases, and mostly around engine drivability. So that's less of an issue for me now, especially considering the Kawi 1700's are known for being super reliable engines anyways out of the box.
 
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I think that you need to remember when looking at Harleys that allot of the owners enjoy working on their own bikes that are supposedly easy to work on and don't want t pay the dealership.

Also, Harleys are marketed on making it your own and customizing it. Just the parts bible from the dealership is the size of the sears catalog (not to mention all of the cheap Chinese parts on ebay/amazon, and every other custom shop out of the US making/selling parts) Nearly every Harley has been modded in some way after a couple owners.

Twin Cams don't quite have the "Harley sound" from the dealership, so everyone that can afford to does pipes. Then the tuner and air intake follow to stop the popping on decel. If you want stock pipes you should be able to find a full set online of less then $200.

I think if you are looking at used Harleys open your mind.
 
The cynic in me wonders how much of vehicle design is driven by creation of profitable future work for dealerships. People will only tolerate so much on the sticker price but many (and IME, especially many star-struck HD buyers) don't consider the potential for a $500+ service every two years in addition to what is considered normal maintenance.

did a bit more reading on the cam chain tensioner issue
a few fixes, one involves scrapping the chain setup for gears
kit includes new cams, gears and an oil pump

but it's not universal fit
have to put a dial indicator on the crank and measure run-out
too much and the gears won't like it, this is why they still use a chain

so after 100+ years, HD can't make a straight crankshaft
how is this effing possible?
 
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Yeah, I agree - I did a ton of reading on the cam chain thing myself as well recently and it seems like a potential dogs breakfast. Gears are nice but there's a lot of pitfalls. Just upgrading to the hydraulic cam chain tensioner is a valid sorta-kinda-maybe-semi-fix but with the number of miles I ride I'd be looking at a tear-down inspection at least once every 1 to 1.5 years with replacement probably ever 2 to 3 - more $$$ and downtime. And it would always be in the back of my head that something could blow up in the meantime. Given one of the rides I'm really hoping to get under my belt this year is the trip up the James Bay Road, and given as how I'm the poster boy for Murphy's Law, 200KM either side of buttfuck nowhere up there is when it would let go, or in the middle of an iron butt or something.

It seems like HD got their **** together in the last decade but the 2000's were certainly dodgy in many areas, no question. They are lucky they have the sheer number of devoted fanatics and name recognition they do as many other brands would have been decimated if they had the same thing happen to them.

Anyhow, I had a perfect candidate HD that I would strongly have considered, all this aside - gear conversion done, mature owner since new, maintenance history on paper, etc etc. Unfortunately actually getting the person to answer freakin' emails has proven to be impossible, and then when he does it feels like I'm pulling teeth to actually get him to show me the bike. I'm done - ain't going to chase anyone to buy their $9000 bike and have it take until June to accomplish. I moved on.

I think I have settled on a bike though - I'll post details this weekend once I have the deposit paid and the rest is just formalities. ;)
 
did a bit more reading on the cam chain tensioner issue
a few fixes, one involves scrapping the chain setup for gears
kit includes new cams, gears and an oil pump

but it's not universal fit
have to put a dial indicator on the cank and measure run-out
too much and the gears won't like it, this is why they still use a chain

so after 100+ years, HD can't make a straight crankshaft
how is this effing possible?
Yes that is true. I checked my run out when I did mine. It was fine. It allows them to have looser tolerances.
Why, cheaper, probably, who knows.
For the tensioners all you need to do is replace them with the new style. The rest can be left alone, unless there are other problems.
But they always recommend replacing more components since you are opening up half the engine (almost), it's called bottom end rebuild.
I am pretty sure the Evo engine uses gears though, not that you would have it in a touring model.
 
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BMW had a similar problem with old Airheads. Rotor failure was caused by crankshaft runout. It would take about 25k but it was tough to diagnose.
 
For the tensioners all you need to do is replace them with the new style. The rest can be left alone, unless there are other problems.

Even HD's own website that sells the upgrade kit seems to suggest the oil pump should be done at the same time:

This kit increases the oil supply by 23% and scavenging by 50% when compared to the '99-'05 Original Equipment oil pump, and reduces operating temperature of bearings to improve bearing life

From what I've gathered even when the hydraulic tensioner upgrade is done they still recommend visual inspections regularly, which for some as in my case, could be very regularly.

The whole tensioner thing is really getting blown out of proportion here.

Is it? Is buying an engine that may or may not have suffered failure from a blown tensioner before, potentially starving the engine of oil only to be band-aided and put up for sale to some unsuspecting person not a fairly major issue? Is needing to crack open the bottom half of the engine every year or three to inspect even the "Upgraded" setup reasonable? Is buying an engine with intention to do a gear drive upgrade only to find out that you can't because there's too much runout not a valid concern?

Heck, back during the peak years of these tensioners causing one engine failure after another even the HD harley guys online were losing their collective minds about the issues, some losing multiple engines because of it.

When the ones that slipped through the cracks because of sheer luck or insanely low mileage are now a bike that someone is prospectively looking at buying, is the issue really "blown out of proportion"? It probably seems that way to someone who doesn't really grasp the seriousness of the issue or is happy to just write a big fat cheque to the dealer when it blows up in the middle of their first high-milage season on said bike. NOT a risk I'm willing to take as an educated consumer who does a ton of due diligence with this sort of stuff.
 

Yes. It’s a 20 year old problem with a fix that’s been out for a long time. Got the old style? Replace with the newer hydraulic style and check them 60,000 miles or so later. Got a 96ci or 103ci twin cam, run it to 60,000 miles, check the shoes/wear pads and replace if required. Not a big deal. There’s literally hundreds of thousands twin cam Harley’s running around and they aren’t the “ticking time bombs” you make them out to be.

Lots of bikes would of needed 3-4 valve checks in those time frames and that can be pretty pricey. Everything has something that needs to replaced, inspected or fails. Throw down big miles and dollars are going to be spent somewhere.
 
Yes that is true. I checked my run out when I did mine. It was fine. It allows them to have looser tolerances.
Why, cheaper, probably, who knows.

assuming you're right on that
tight machining tolerances and stringent QC are not cheap
and I figure there's some heritage think going on as well

edit:
this is a long watch but well worth it
very good run down on this cam chain problem
and after seeing this
there's no way I'd buy one these bikes
there is no crankshaft
it's 2 flywheels held together with a pressed in crank pin
 
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Throw down big miles and dollars are going to be spent somewhere.

Put 80,000KM on my VTX in 5 years of ownership and aside from a few sets of tires, 1 set of brake pads, and oil and fluid changes (all consumables and routine maintenance), I've needed to do absolutely squat to it. Lots of them running into the 200,000+KM range with nothing more than 1 valve adjustment. Tons of metrics out there in the same boat.

Got a 96ci or 103ci twin cam, run it to 60,000 miles, check the shoes/wear pads and replace if required. Not a big deal. There’s literally hundreds of thousands twin cam Harley’s running around and they aren’t the “ticking time bombs” you make them out to be.

So, for any new Twin Cam owner it seems you get to chose from one of these 4 scenarios:

1/ If it's not been done but the bike has crazy low miles (so it's just not fallen apart and trashed the engine yet), then with all due respect, yes, it is a ticking time bomb. So you start your ownership experience pulling the cam chest open to fix it, and it's highly doubtful the seller is going to care to cut you a deal on the price because of this reality as if you don't buy it at their asking price, someone else will.

2/ If it *has* been upgraded, fine, but do you trust the previous owner (or chain of previous owners if it was a "the guy before me did it") scenario that it was actually done if there's no paperwork to prove it?

3/ If there's no reputable paper trail proving the work was even done (or when), do you start your ownership experience by cracking it open to have a look-see and inspect things to have a baseline to go with?

4/ Let Jesus take the wheel, cross your fingers, and hope for the best.

Based on the last 3 weeks of actually looking at twin cam era HD's, that's the basic consensus of options I've come up with.
 
Looks like you have your heart set on a Jap bike. I think that's where you should be looking.

Just for the record, my current "Jap bike" was built Ohio. Yes, HD's sold here are still built in North America as well, but just like my Honda, a huge portion of the parts are imported from around the globe. In the end they're probably about the same ratio of "American Iron". Mine just has a different nameplate than yours.
 

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