Canada Post - Huge losses

[BigEvilDoer]

Why can't a superbox be loaded by the same postie that walks or drives? Whatever infrastructure is in place to get them the mail continues to function (eg maybe a large van drops bags of mail in a box beside the superboxes and then the postie distributes).

So now you’re doubling up on labour.
You need someone to deliver the mail to the boxes beside the community mail boxes, and then you need someone to open the relay boxes, pull the mail out and put it into the community mail boxes.

Believe me..there’s no simple solution to this mess.
Reduce letter carriers = More vans to be purchased = more insurance = more gas = more van parking space = larger depots = larger costs.

Remember… we can only carry so and so much in our bags at a time. We are allowed to carry packets up to 200 cubic inches in size maximum. Imagine we have a bunch of those.. how can we carry them all at once including the regular mail and all the junk? We simply can’t.

The mobile routes with “park and loops” — park van, get out, load mail bags, do a loop, return to van… load up again.. do another loop.. return to van… do another loop.. return to van… now deliver all the larger parcels in those 3 loops using the van. Move to the next location.

Underand a bit more now?

 

[Evoex]

I'm confused. How do superboxes change things so much at depot level? I figured the biggest change would be eliminating hours of travel time (walking or driving) as postie had to hit every single house instead of stopping once to hit 30+ addresses.

You need more vehicles because the volume of mail will be beyond insane. Right now more often than not I have very little to no space in the truck when I hit it daily. So now you`re talking either round trips to the depot/boxes or multiple waves of Posties, which we already do. Either way to @BigEvilDoer point, the sheer volume of mail required to go out in this scenario would require a lot more logistics infrastructure then i've seen so far.

 

[GreyGhost]

You need more vehicles because the volume of mail will be beyond insane. Right now more often than not I have very little to no space in the truck when I hit it daily. So now you`re talking either round trips to the depot/boxes or multiple waves of Posties, which we already do. Either way to @BigEvilDoer point, the sheer volume of mail required to go out in this scenario would require a lot more logistics infrastructure then i've seen so far.

But the volume of mail is unchanged. A depot needs to send out x thousand pieces a day whether they are walked door to door or superboxed. The superbox saves hours of walking (or driving for rural) on the last mile but I still don't understand how it changes anything at depot level.

Now, if we are talking about one day a week residential delivery, that is a big deal as they need someplace to stage the ~80% of the mail that isn't going out today.

 

[Evoex]

But the volume of mail is unchanged. A depot needs to send out x thousand pieces a day whether they are walked door to door or superboxed. The superbox saves hours of walking (or driving for rural) on the last mile but I still don't understand how it changes anything at depot level.

Now, if we are talking about one day a week residential delivery, that is a big deal as they need someplace to stage the ~80% of the mail that isn't going out today.

Sorry i skimmed a few posts, thought we were still talking about 1x a week.

 

[justride]

The supervisors at Canada Post have their own union called APOC. They got their bonuses.

 

[raginduck]

You might be surprised…
Now you need more vehicles to accommodate the delivery. More gas. More insurance. Larger depots with more dock spaces. More available space to park the extra vans….

Yes, it’s a completely viable option for locations that have all those options available. Kitchener built a new depot and included a brand new parking structure for the vans.

for any other location, it’s impossible due to space allowances noted above.

Add a second shift?
Same space, same number of vehicles, same insurance costs, etc..

 

[timtune]

You might be surprised…
Now you need more vehicles to accommodate the delivery. More gas. More insurance. Larger depots with more dock spaces. More available space to park the extra vans….

Yes, it’s a completely viable option for locations that have all those options available. Kitchener built a new depot and included a brand new parking structure for the vans.

for any other location, it’s impossible due to space allowances noted above.

How can walking to one box not be way less work than walking up to a dozen separate houses? If that doesn't work let people go to the post office to get their mail. It's what I and most of the folks in town have to do.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

Add a second shift?
Same space, same number of vehicles, same insurance costs, etc..

Most large depots already have multiple starting waves. 7am, 9am, 11am.
The later shifts really suck around Christmas time. You’re delivering in the dark for a good 3-4 hours due to the mail volume.
You also have to realize that many people don’t want people ringing their doorbell in the evening for parcel delivery / items requiring signatures. Especially when it’s dark out.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

How can walking to one box not be way less work than walking up to a dozen separate houses?

Yes, a super box is easier in that regard. But you completely missed my point of all of the added expenses involved to convert everything to superboxes. Parking space. Vehicle cost. Maintenance cost. Fuel. Insurance. Larger depot required with more dock spaces….

 

[Scuba Steve]

Yes, a super box is easier in that regard. But you completely missed my point of all of the added expenses involved to convert everything to superboxes. Parking space. Vehicle cost. Maintenance cost. Fuel. Insurance. Larger depot required with more dock spaces….

I think what he and I don't understand is how is it any different than delivering door to door except for all the walking saved and time

Sent from the future

 

[raginduck]

Yes, a super box is easier in that regard. But you completely missed my point of all of the added expenses involved to convert everything to superboxes. Parking space. Vehicle cost. Maintenance cost. Fuel. Insurance. Larger depot required with more dock spaces….

My second shift comment was related to this... multiple shifts would see the second shift employees using the same vehicles, parking spaces, and dock space.. as the first.
The staggered shift start times you mentioned.. don't solve that issue.

 

[Mad Mike]

Ok.. how about this…
Superboxes require vans for delivery.
Vans require gas, insurance and parking spaces.
Almost NO depots have the physical space to store said vans, nor do they have the ability to accommodate 20-125 vans at the loading docks at a time. If they can’t accommodate the dock space or the storage of said vans, you need a larger depot. That in turn, costs a **** ton more money.

Make sense?

Nope, doesn't make sense.

A minivan (Transit Connect) has 50x the carrying capacity of a letter carrier. That means 1 fully loaded minivan heading to superboxes can take 50 mailbag trips off the board.

As for space -- where do those few hundred letter carriers park their cars?

 

[sburns]

Sooooo….
I work for CP in Guelph. It’s a freaking ****-show.
The routes are REALLY long for the most part. Posties are getting done a wee bit early on Thursday or Friday… Monday is overtime almost every week. Tuesdays and Wednesdays are OK at best.

If think that it’s a “make work project” in my depot, you’re sadly mistaken. The management only cares about cutting hours. They are pretty much demanding that there are absolutely ZERO overtime hours, regardless of the mail load. FFS, I had 11 flyers per day last week.. an average of 160 pounds of junk mail a day.

I do agree that management is a problem. They are very much in tune with the “Stick” and not the “Carrot”.

I’ve been working various shifts each week (my title is a “relief” worker - fill in wherever necessary to cover vacations, illnesses etc)… the 4am-noon shift scrambles hard each and every day, trying to get it all done. We have an average of 20 hours a week of overtime between the 4 workers. They want to cut 20 hours of regular pay to cut costs. The math simply doens’t work.

I used to work with CP for a brief time during COVID. It was helpful in that regard. I was a LC then transitioned into a PO4 in the depot and sorting centre. What an eye opener all of that was.

Don't get me wrong, a LC job is tougher then it looks, and will get easier over time with experience and route selection. But as you know there are plenty of ways they could optimize the routes, even within the methods they are working in (archaic as they are) by dividing the routes up, separating packages from mail, etc They have the bodies to do this, maybe not quite enough vehicles as you mentioned.

What I meant as a "make work project" was an overall extension of the Gov to provide good decent jobs for people, and pat themselves (the gov) on the back saying "look we did something", while doing nothing, and possible making things worse at CP because they just keep hiring new people.

 

[sburns]

How can walking to one box not be way less work than walking up to a dozen separate houses? If that doesn't work let people go to the post office to get their mail. It's what I and most of the folks in town have to do.

Here is another tidbit for you, not all areas were converted to superboxes. CP/Union fought this and some areas (specifically scarborough) are door to door mail only. Hey I don't mind door delivery of mail, but if I was on the business side then I would figure out a way to repel this decision and install superboxes.

 

[timtune]

Parking space. Vehicle cost. Maintenance cost. Fuel. Insurance. Larger depot required with more dock spaces….

Don't you need all that regardless?

 

[Mad Mike]

Why can't a superbox be loaded by the same postie that walks or drives? Whatever infrastructure is in place to get them the mail continues to function (eg maybe a large van drops bags of mail in a box beside the superboxes and then the postie distributes).

I think this is the direction CPC wants to go, adding dynamic distribution that directs resources to where they are needed, not to pre-defined routes.

Back in 2012 the routes that had supermaiboxes delivered a 70% labor savings on the cost of delivery. A good chunk of those savings are still untapped.

 

[Mad Mike]

I think what he and I don't understand is how is it any different than delivering door to door except for all the walking saved and time

Sent from the future

There are some complicated labor issues. LC jobs have been deeply tied to complex route measurement schemes, time/value calculations, union seniority, and route ownership. Modernizing process is difficult when these systems are steeped in tradition and generally stacked toward lightening workloads. If CPC automates something that saves time for a worker -- that may only benefit the worker as complicated rules and agreements don't provide CPC the advantages of modernization or technology investment.

I don't know if it's still the case, but union rules provide paid time to LCs for sorting mail -- something that hasn't been done for nearly 2 decades when CPC started presorting mail for them.

 

[Evoex]

There are some complicated labor issues. LC jobs have been deeply tied to complex route measurement schemes, time/value calculations, union seniority, and route ownership. Modernizing process is difficult when these systems are steeped in tradition and generally stacked toward lightening workloads. If CPC automates something that saves time for a worker -- that may only benefit the worker as complicated rules and agreements don't provide CPC the advantages of modernization or technology investment.

I don't know if it's still the case, but union rules provide paid time to LCs for sorting mail -- something that hasn't been done for nearly 2 decades when CPC started presorting mail for them.

We still sort some mail.

 

[Mad Mike]

We still sort some mail.

Do you still get a time allocation to sort all mail (built in or separate)?

 

[Evoex]

Do you still get a time allocation to sort all mail (built in or separate)?

Part of the shift