Gaoler
Well-known member
This^^
More burocracy for the sake of more burocracy..
Boat Rentals
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
More burocracy for the sake of more burocracy..
It’s becoming a necessity if you moor in a public marina and private will follow shortly due to insurance. To get a dock you now need to provide proof of insurance , a current boat registration, a photocopy of your PCOC card and next phase in will be a copy of your current survey which is a requirement of industry companies now unless you have agreed value under thirty K and photo documentation.
The number of abandoned boats where they track the registration number and its three owners old is what has triggered this . People are literally sailing into a harbour , dropping the anchor and wading ashore . Dealt with two of these wanks in the last yr .
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The number of abandoned boats where they track the registration number and its three owners old is what has triggered this . People are literally sailing into a harbour , dropping the anchor and wading ashore . Dealt with two of these wanks in the last yr .
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I understand that in theory but in practice, this government policy doesn't change that much. The guy that didn't register his boat the first time isn't going to renew his non-registered boat. The guy that last registered the boat may get a letter telling him to update and he replies that he sold it long ago. Again, probably a deadend that changes nothing. Old owner could conceivably provide name of person they sold it to but there is a good chance that chain doesn't make it all the way to the current owner. Hell, if current owner wants to be extra dodgy, they can say they sold it to an unknown buyer.
Your points about the marina/insurance make a far bigger difference as that is actual boat level enforcement. My insurance didn't ask for registration number fwiw.
While not perfect, a government policy where every business that touched a boat (repair, marina, fall pull-out, etc) had to run the number and provide client name to database would be infinitely more effective than this renewal nonsense.
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I never leave anything in my name once it belongs to someone else. All the receipts and agreements written on scraps of paper are IMO worthless in a lawsuit.
If something registered to you causes a liability the injured party doesn't give a rat's ass about you selling it to Joe who sold it to Bill who loaned it to Fred who agreed to do the right thing. The injured party sues everyone.
If the judgement is 25% for each of the defendants and three don't have any money the one with the deepest pockets pays the whole shot. He can then sue the deadbeats to recoup his losses. Good Luck.
Transfer the ownership and you're out of the loop. Your doorbell never rings.
Anything that makes it easier and simpler is good. Now, how are the governments going to screw that up?
If something registered to you causes a liability the injured party doesn't give a rat's ass about you selling it to Joe who sold it to Bill who loaned it to Fred who agreed to do the right thing. The injured party sues everyone.
If the judgement is 25% for each of the defendants and three don't have any money the one with the deepest pockets pays the whole shot. He can then sue the deadbeats to recoup his losses. Good Luck.
Transfer the ownership and you're out of the loop. Your doorbell never rings.
Anything that makes it easier and simpler is good. Now, how are the governments going to screw that up?
As a start, can you notify tc of a sold boat like you can with the mto for a vehicle?
Allowing service ontario to do boats would be an easy improvement. You are already there for the trailer.
Re the above selling without seeing the transfer:
You sell a boat for $30,000 taking a $3,000 deposit and exchanging the paperwork.
The prospective new owner shows up with the balance and a trailer but doesn't want to do the transfer because it will cost him $3900 in taxes.
That saves him the $3900 but leaves you with unlimited liability forever.
If you refuse to release the boat can you keep the deposit?
You sell a boat for $30,000 taking a $3,000 deposit and exchanging the paperwork.
The prospective new owner shows up with the balance and a trailer but doesn't want to do the transfer because it will cost him $3900 in taxes.
That saves him the $3900 but leaves you with unlimited liability forever.
If you refuse to release the boat can you keep the deposit?
I did that once sending TC two copies, a letter and a self addressed envelope. I got a rubber stamped copy back.
Aren't 90% of the trailers on the road home built?
Still needs a plate. I have a collection of plates for homebuilt trailers. Labeled with the colour of the trailer.Aren't 90% of the trailers on the road home built?
I practice recycling
The fight now with municipal harbours , and it just that the government had to draw a line somewhere. If you have a thirty ft Etchells sail boat , they have no engine so you don’t need a PCOC card . Also all the ten to thirty ft sport race sailboats that have a kicker engine under nine hp do not need to be registered. My ten ft zodiac doesn’t need to be registered.
Now comes the crazy , I mentioned the number of boats being abandoned. When you end up with an abandoned boat to scrap it you need to get a declaration of ownership that the boat was abandoned and you now have custody. We use a TO lawyer that will do due diligence , he charges us eight hundred bucks ( which is a deal) . We spend eight hundred to get rid of your crap since you walked . Also the tax money that NEVER gets paid , if you sell through a broker or dealer they will file all taxes . If I buy from Fred and he bought from Joe , I will change the registration into my name , get a form letter that asks if I may have bought a boat . I file that in the shredder and never hear about it again. And that happens daily in Ontario . People buy one hundred K boats and pay zero tax,
I’m no fan of more government control but I can see why this one is happening. Eventually you will have LEOs asking for registration when they do the PCOC / life jacket / drinking stops .
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Now comes the crazy , I mentioned the number of boats being abandoned. When you end up with an abandoned boat to scrap it you need to get a declaration of ownership that the boat was abandoned and you now have custody. We use a TO lawyer that will do due diligence , he charges us eight hundred bucks ( which is a deal) . We spend eight hundred to get rid of your crap since you walked . Also the tax money that NEVER gets paid , if you sell through a broker or dealer they will file all taxes . If I buy from Fred and he bought from Joe , I will change the registration into my name , get a form letter that asks if I may have bought a boat . I file that in the shredder and never hear about it again. And that happens daily in Ontario . People buy one hundred K boats and pay zero tax,
I’m no fan of more government control but I can see why this one is happening. Eventually you will have LEOs asking for registration when they do the PCOC / life jacket / drinking stops .
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They don't do that now? Again, for those that bothered registering before, this changes nothing. For those that didn't bother registering before, they still risked a ticket for not doing it and again, this changes nothing.
I never thought of the municipal docks etc.
During Covid a friend sold his dilapidated 28 foot cruiser for about $4K. I assume it got used as a floating cottage for a few years but now it would be a liability, pay to tow and scrap.
If the buyer never changed ownership they could motor up to any dock and walk away. It would cost the dock owner more to scrap the boat due to search legalities.
I once called the PST people advising them that most of the trailers in the local park had been sold and never transferred, due to the tax sting.
Collecting all those taxes could have netted them $50-100K but they weren't interested.
My buddy has been on a lake for 5+ years….zero enforcement on the lake his cottage is on, or the one it connects to that he’s seen over the years.
I lost a plate somewhere between home and Wasaga recently.
Fun times with the kids ‘daddy you can’t lie to the policeman if he asks you where the plate is! You know it never made it to the cottage!’
Right along with ‘it’s 60 here! Why are you driving much faster than 60! You’ll get arrested and then we won’t have a dad!’
