Bill 7 $400 a day for hospital stay | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bill 7 $400 a day for hospital stay

nobbie48

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Correct me if I'm wrong but once granny has recovered from her fall she either pays $400 a day to stay in the hospital or accept being shipped to the nearest available bed in long term care, up to 90 Km away, further up north.

Cruel distancing for granny or getting stretchers out of hallways?

IMO it's another case of people failing to realize they will get sick some day and need to prepare.
 
It should be more. A lot of beds are being taken up by the elderly that have nowhere to go because they either didn't plan, planned and can't afford it, or don't want to go to an old age home.

We have a small amount of nurse friends and they all say the same things. Grandma and grandpa outright refuse to be moved once their health improves. A lot of families pulled out their parents from old age homes in fear of COVID, and they were able to care for them as they were WFH. One nurse estimated it at around 30% of her patients are old age patients that refuse to leave. That's 30% of available beds gone and nurses being hotel maids.

WFH is ending, they're fed up with grandma and grandpa so they go into the hospital, and never take them out again.

Meanwhile we have a healthcare system in shambles and is collapsing due to incompetence on all fronts...I say make it $1000.

Disclaimer...I may feel different once I get older and my parents need this care.
 
It needs to happen, families have tried to leave granny in hospital for in some cases over a year whilke they 'explore options" . It creates massive log jams in beds needed for people that need hospital care.

I'm not sure there is a way to plan for ending in a long term care facility, you have to transit from hospital to a transition care facility while they assess what level of care you require. You do not go hospital/LTC. Long term care is heavily public funded and assited living centers are on your dime. They need to be sure your ready for long term care.

$400 a day is a lot of money for people , but a fraction of what a hosiptal bed costs. This had to happen to get families motivated to move forward, not the "well its not the place we want and we dont know"
 
It needs to happen, families have tried to leave granny in hospital for in some cases over a year whilke they 'explore options" . It creates massive log jams in beds needed for people that need hospital care.

I'm not sure there is a way to plan for ending in a long term care facility, you have to transit from hospital to a transition care facility while they assess what level of care you require. You do not go hospital/LTC. Long term care is heavily public funded and assited living centers are on your dime. They need to be sure your ready for long term care.

$400 a day is a lot of money for people , but a fraction of what a hosiptal bed costs. This had to happen to get families motivated to move forward, not the "well its not the place we want and we dont know"
The hitch in the system which they do not appear to have attempted to solve is providing for transition to LTC closer to your support network. Clearing the hospital quickly makes sense. Unfortunately, once you are in LTC somewhere, you drop in priority on the lists and will likely never get a spot closer to your support. Support makes a huge difference in care and quality of life.
 
The hitch in the system which they do not appear to have attempted to solve is providing for transition to LTC closer to your support network. Clearing the hospital quickly makes sense. Unfortunately, once you are in LTC somewhere, you drop in priority on the lists and will likely never get a spot closer to your support. Support makes a huge difference in care and quality of life.
IMO that is a secondary issue compared to clearing the lack of space in the hospital.

Yes it sucks grandma and grandpa will be 100km away.

But for the betterment of the population…this needs to happen.
 
IMO that is a secondary issue compared to clearing the lack of space in the hospital.

Yes it sucks grandma and grandpa will be 100km away.

But for the betterment of the population…this needs to happen.
I have no problem with step one. I have seen the rapid decline that comes if step two isn't rapidly taken. The simplest solution would be to leave them where they were in any priority lists as they were relocated without consent. When a spot opens at one of their chosen facilities, they get it and there is an open bed in the boonies for somebody.
 
There are a lot of waiting lists for this kind of care, and facilities, like in years. It's not surprising people have little choice but to leave them at the hospital or they have no dependants to help them. A friend of mine is dealing with this, and his parents are very admit about staying in their home and flat out refuse to move, even to another sibling's house. I think the earlier generations have known a greater sense of independence the rest of us may not experience.
 
There are a lot of waiting lists for this kind of care, and facilities, like in years. It's not surprising people have little choice but to leave them at the hospital or they have no dependants to help them. A friend of mine is dealing with this, and his parents are very admit about staying in their home and flat out refuse to move, even to another sibling's house. I think the earlier generations have known a greater sense of independence the rest of us may not experience.
Sadly, when they here of some of their friends being shipped far away never to be heard from again after a fall, that may wake them up to reality. Ideally there would be more support for aging in place. There isn't much and it doesn't seem to be on the horizon. Aging in place is about as expensive as it gets (for your personal finances) and most people just ostrich and hope for the best.
 
IMO that is a secondary issue compared to clearing the lack of space in the hospital.

Yes it sucks grandma and grandpa will be 100km away.

But for the betterment of the population…this needs to happen.
A colleague used to weekly visit an aunt in a home and he commented that a lot of the residents spent the day in the lobby hoping to see a familiar car come down the driveway. Most were disappointed.

Make the drive 100K further and granny is an even worse off.

I suspect one case where granny's house was sold under POA and the early inheritance used to feather the heir's nest. Now what to do with granny...........
 
I have no problem with step one. I have seen the rapid decline that comes if step two isn't rapidly taken. The simplest solution would be to leave them where they were in any priority lists as they were relocated without consent. When a spot opens at one of their chosen facilities, they get it and there is an open bed in the boonies for somebody.
Something I wondered about.

A person collecting OAS should be thinking about where they're going to be in 10 years, more or less. Research where they want to be when the stairs get too steep or lawn to big. Book a spot because waiting lists are five to ten years unless you have deep pockets.

Don't forget that working children get transfers and promotions.

Crooks: There was a good place I did some service work at in the west end. They fired their manager when they found out she was bumping people up the list if her son got the real estate listing for selling the family home.
 
A colleague used to weekly visit an aunt in a home and he commented that a lot of the residents spent the day in the lobby hoping to see a familiar car come down the driveway. Most were disappointed.

Make the drive 100K further and granny is an even worse off.

I suspect one case where granny's house was sold under POA and the early inheritance used to feather the heir's nest. Now what to do with granny...........
I understand and wholly sympathize.

However...why should hundreds of people suffer because a single (or many) families decided to pawn off their parents to the hospital and hog up beds?

IMO the solution is simple:
- You have X weeks to find a home, if you do not find a home then one will be provided to you and your family will be charged accordingly

In Poland there is actually a requirement (from what I understand...could be wrong) that if family cannot (or will not) take care of their elderly parent, the parent is taken to a home, and if the family income is (edit) above a certain level...they get the bill.
 
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How much money did JT just give away on his last tour? How many LTC beds could that money create?
We have our own problems here in Canada... How about we stop giving money to other's problems and start taking care of our own.

I think he wakes up every morning and instead of reading the paper decides to whom and how much money he is going to give away today, or maybe gets briefed by his team on the daily budget he can send to other countries.
 
I'm balls deep in this right now. Dad has Alz and is getting late in the game, he was walking and communicating a month ago, now he's unable to walk and communication is getting weaker. There is no option but LTC at this point. He's holding in hospital (OTH in Oakville - gong show - , then moved to JB in Burlington) where he's been comfortable.

LTC is tricky to navigate and the service providers doing the navigating are not terribly well organized or efficient. Here's how it works:

If you are at home, the local health network (LIHN) assesses the condition and makes an application to LTC, you pick up to 5 homes and go on a wait list. The lists have wait times of 5 to 18 months. If you are a 'crisis' placement, you get bumped up and the wait goes 30 days to 180 days. Times are typical -- it depends on turnover). Getting on the CRISIS list is possible when discharged to a transitional facility or to home for waiting a transition. It is hard if you start your LTC application while at home, or if healthy enough for a hospital to discharge you home.

If you are in a hospital when they determine LTC is necessary, things get very complicated as the community LIHN folks flip the file and responsibility to the hospital, hospitals work with an in-house LIHN rep. Arranging for LTC isn't done often direct from the hospital, as they are not very good at navigating the systems themselves.

You have 3 options:
1) Home Care. If you have the resources to care for someone in your house, LIHN may supply a hospital bed, hoyer lift, and 1 or 2 PWS visits per day to help with difficult tasks. There is no cost for this. When you take this option, the patient MIGHT qualify for the crisis list, but it appears this is only if waiting in the hospital. Transition to a preferred home is 30-180 days. If you are at home when the LTC assessment is done, they only place you on the crisis list if your primary caregiver is determined to be incapable of managing your

2) Transitional Care Beds. These are beds in nursing homes that do not generally deliver LTC. They are funded to provide LTC-like care to patients who waiting for permanent LTC. This offloads 1800 hospital beds that are currently providing this service. The problem is these are empty beds that nursing homes cannot fill, mostly in smaller centers 1-2hrs away from the city hospitals that are holding waiting LTC patients. When you take this option, the pairing is usually added to the crisis list so the transition to a preferred home is 30-180 days. The cost is about $100/day. Could be 70Km for urban dwellers, and 300km away for rural. In our case, there were 4 options, each was 70-100km away in rural towns (except Niagara Falls)

3) Private Nursing home care. This is not LTC, it's nursing home care with added services to provide a similar level of care to LTC. Most fix a contract price between $6K and $8K/mo for LTC level care. Supplies, (incontinence, A lot of services are limited, for example, an incontinent elder may get 2 changes a day, and additional changes are billed 'a-la-carte'. i.e $50 for a diaper change, $30 for meds delivery, $20 for a shave. Expect another bill from $500 - $1500/mo. NOTE: Patients go on a regular LTC waiting list if they chose this option.

We're bringing dad home, the fam is setting up a 7-day rotation to help mom care for him. LIHN is providing 2 x 1hr visits with PSWs to help, mostly getting from bed to chair. I have to convert the main floor laundry into a shower room. Not that big of a job, I have 10 days to relocate the laundry into the basement and install an accessible shower stall. An accessible bathroom is already there - I reno'd that 3 years back and had the forethought to put in a 36" door.

So far the hospital has been very cooperative, they promise to care for him until the house is ready. If we refused to play ball, they pick option 2 for you, but won't move your loved one until you consent. They do say their hands are tied on the $400 as of Nov 20 if you don't have a plan in motion.
 
If someone is paying for LTC themselves... Do they still go on a waiting list or have trouble getting a bed?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but once granny has recovered from her fall she either pays $400 a day to stay in the hospital or accept being shipped to the nearest available bed in long term care, up to 90 Km away, further up north.

Cruel distancing for granny or getting stretchers out of hallways?

IMO it's another case of people failing to realize they will get sick some day and need to prepare.
Almost. If Granny is fit to go home and care is available, she goes home. If she has to go to LTC (has been assessed as requiring LTC) or decides at that point on going the LTC route, that's a bit more complicated.

If she's already approved or LTC and can't go home, she goes to a far away place, not a LTC home, a temp spot with LTC like care in a nursing home with open beds.
 
It should be more. A lot of beds are being taken up by the elderly that have nowhere to go because they either didn't plan, planned and can't afford it, or don't want to go to an old age home.

We have a small amount of nurse friends and they all say the same things. Grandma and grandpa outright refuse to be moved once their health improves. A lot of families pulled out their parents from old age homes in fear of COVID, and they were able to care for them as they were WFH. One nurse estimated it at around 30% of her patients are old age patients that refuse to leave. That's 30% of available beds gone and nurses being hotel maids.

WFH is ending, they're fed up with grandma and grandpa so they go into the hospital, and never take them out again.

Meanwhile we have a healthcare system in shambles and is collapsing due to incompetence on all fronts...I say make it $1000.

Disclaimer...I may feel different once I get older and my parents need this care.
I've seen this lately at 2 hospitals.... the folks in the LTC holding areas need LTC, I saw a few that could be discharged home, but I'd say 9/10 required constant care. There are 1800 of these folks currently occupying hospital beds in Ontario.

I have the means to take my dad home and hire PSWs to help us with some of the more challenging stuff. He's lucky in as much as there are 4 my mom, sis, me, and 4 adult grandchildren are all-in to provide for him -- whatever he needs.

I overheard some elderly people begging their kids to let them come back home. One elderly woman in Oakville kinda shook me -- she was recovered and ready to go home -- her kids wouldn't pick her up -- she spent an hour begging them, then threats. Somebody won't be using her Muskoka lakehouse anymore.
 

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