Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 289 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

GreyGhost said:
Anyone know what that was? Etoys have long been the domain of cheap and prone to bursting into flames. Stacyc/HD have one of the better reputations that they want to keep. Many of the cheaper toys are obviously made at the same factory but have thousands of brands as they are just price-point commodity sales (and/or good fire starters).

It will be interesting to see what happens with fire fighting as BEV's become more prevalent. There are stories about fires burning for 12 hours with constant intervention required. That's not a huge deal when they are a few percent of the fleet but at almost 100% of the fleet we will need a hell of a lot more fire fighters/trucks or a better way to extinguish them (pipe into battery pack to flood with neutralizing agent, inert gas or very cold phase change liquid to remove heat)?
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A fire is one thing but chopping off a roof to rescue an injured person could get interesting if a power cable got cut.

I asked a FF and he said they'd wait until they got instructions. Another source said they had SOP's on the trucks. Standard operating procedures.
 
nobbie48 said:
A fire is one thing but chopping off a roof to rescue an injured person could get interesting if a power cable got cut.

I asked a FF and he said they'd wait until they got instructions. Another source said they had SOP's on the trucks. Standard operating procedures.
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Ev's have published data to tell firefighters how to quickly cut power from the high voltage battery. Some manufacturers (cough tesla) set it up so the car is destroyed in the process (cut c pillar and that kills power amd scraps the car). Battery fires on the other hand are the wild west. They burn for many hours with no way to get into the pack to extinguish the fire.
 
GreyGhost said:
Ev's have published data to tell firefighters how to quickly cut power from the high voltage battery. Some manufacturers (cough tesla) set it up so the car is destroyed in the process (cut c pillar and that kills power amd scraps the car). Battery fires on the other hand are the wild west. They burn for many hours with no way to get into the pack to extinguish the fire.
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I was thinking back to some of the early EV experiments using NiCads. When they were working around the batteries they used nylon wrenches. If a metal wrench was dropped across the terminals there would be an electrical explosion not unlike a hand grenade going off.

L/I would be the same if there were no controls and some of the controls would have to be inside the batteries. A lot of the early NiCad batteries were just common cell sizes tabbed together into a convenient shape. There's an internal resistance calculation that would calculate how bad it could get.
 
Just wait till we have a few more Mach E's on the road for a few years.

The more Munro teardown videos I watch on the Mach E, the more concerned I get.

Not to take anything away from Ford, its a GREAT first effort and decent product. But man, the hornets nest of components and multiple parts and less than stellar design descisions. Nothings buttoned down or engineered nicely.

I won't be surprised if Mach E makes more trips to the dealer as it ages.
 
SunnY S said:
Just wait till we have a few more Mach E's on the road for a few years.

The more Munro teardown videos I watch on the Mach E, the more concerned I get.

Not to take anything away from Ford, its a GREAT first effort and decent product. But man, the hornets nest of components and multiple parts and less than stellar design descisions. Nothings buttoned down or engineered nicely.

I won't be surprised if Mach E makes more trips to the dealer as it ages.
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Say what you want about ford quality and engineering but I havent seen any videos of parts flying off a mach E. There is clearly one EV with more significant design and manufacturing issues than the rest and it's not the ford.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
$16K. 😲

jalopnik.com

Tesla Quotes $16,000 To Repair Model 3, Independent Shop Did It For $700

A minor bit of damage can have wildly expensive consequences if parts aren't designed with repair in mind
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
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GM’s horrible engineers have designed the battery packs in their vehicles with independently replaceable sections so that if a single cell goes wonky in that section, it can be swapped out and not take the entire pack down with it.

I occasionally haul these sections to the shop that does these repairs.

Absolutely horrible terrible thoughtless design, though. Stupid GM.


/s
 
SunnY S said:
Just wait till we have a few more Mach E's on the road for a few years.

The more Munro teardown videos I watch on the Mach E, the more concerned I get.

Not to take anything away from Ford, its a GREAT first effort and decent product. But man, the hornets nest of components and multiple parts and less than stellar design descisions. Nothings buttoned down or engineered nicely.

I won't be surprised if Mach E makes more trips to the dealer as it ages.
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seems like two different design strategies.
multiple parts for cheaper replacements when one goes bad vs. when anything breaks or goes bad, you have to replace a huge combination part with more cost.
if indestructible or maintenance free, one part vs multiple is obviously better. however, personal experience with Teslas is quite the opposite. Been in the shop more often than my ICE cars.
 
Sandy Munro loves designs that integrate every possible function into one sealed black box assembled with clips, and he has a hate for off-the-shelf parts, and a hate for threaded fasteners.

As someone who runs vehicles into the ground ... I like modular assemblies. I like subcomponents shared between as many vehicle models as possible. I like bolts and I hate clips (they break). I like things that can be unbolted and taken apart to replace an individual failed component as opposed to having to replace a $16,000 black-box battery module in its entirety because it's not designed to ever be serviced. If that means there's a few more hoses or cables connecting them ... so what.

As a mechanical designer ... I like off-the-shelf parts. I like parts-bin engineering. I like parts shared between as many vehicle models as possible.

He has a hate for the VW ID.4. I get the point of what VW is doing. VW is trying to share parts and subassemblies between VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi, the upcoming VW ID Buzz or whatever they end up calling it, etc. Maybe that means the VW ends up with better suspension than it needs, because it's sharing parts with the Audi ... but it's less expensive because they're all the same underneath, the manufacturer builds them all the same way on the same line, and the parts commonality means parts are more likely to be readily available 10 or 15 years from now.

Okay, so the way the Ford's front drivetrain is hung from the subframe is the same way an internal-combustion engine is hung from the subframe. So what? #1 it works and it's proven. #2 it means there's at least "something" familiar to a mechanic poking around under the hood. Need to pull the motor and gearbox? Same way you pull an engine.

The Bolt goes down the same assembly line as similar-size combustion-engine vehicles. It's put together generally the same way and with generally the same assembly sequence. The assembly-line operators know what to do. Production volume of the Bolt doesn't justify having its own dedicated assembly line (and it was never planned to be a high-volume product - basically dipping toes into the water to see what's involved).

I like Sandy Munro's videos, too ... but I take some of the things he says, with plenty of grains of salt.
 
GreyGhost said:
Say what you want about ford quality and engineering but I havent seen any videos of parts flying off a mach E. There is clearly one EV with more significant design and manufacturing issues than the rest and it's not the ford.
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This is true, but as stated, the Mach has barely been out for a year? and not to say there will be same problem, but won't be surprised if other problems crop up. For whatever reason, Ford loves their hornets nest designs. Check out the Maverick engine bay. downright Scary!

nonetheless, a stellar first effort from Ford, and likely to get better with each generation and update. Munro even says they did a better job than VW did on their ID4.

Still waiting for GMs response.... I've heard more noises about the upcoming Honda collaboration with the Ultium than anything out of the GM camp for a world class product. electric pick up? Hummer? please.
 
SunnY S said:
This is true, but as stated, the Mach has barely been out for a year? and not to say there will be same problem, but won't be surprised if other problems crop up.

nonetheless, a stellar first effort from Ford, and likely to get better with each generation and update. Munro even says they did a better job than VW did on their ID4.

Still waiting for GMs response.... I've heard more noises about the upcoming Honda collaboration with the Ultium than anything out of the GM camp for a world class product. electric pick up? Hummer? please.
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Teslas were falling apart the first week they were in the wild. 3's lost their bumpers, one of the first Y's purchased lost it's roof. You don't need to wait years for design/manufacturing issues to present if you don't have the appropriate systems in place to catch issues before they see light. For all I know, Ford had similar issues but solved it before the vehicles were delivered (less likely imo as they understand manufacturing but always possible).

I do agree that GM's vacuum of products is concerning. I wondered if they wanted Ford to go first and then they could jump out and say they were better but Ford kicked them in the nuts so now they are scrambling.
 
GreyGhost said:
Teslas were falling apart the first week they were in the wild. 3's lost their bumpers, one of the first Y's purchased lost it's roof. You don't need to wait years for design/manufacturing issues to present if you don't have the appropriate systems in place to catch issues before they see light. For all I know, Ford had similar issues but solved it before the vehicles were delivered (less likely imo as they understand manufacturing but always possible).

I do agree that GM's vacuum of products is concerning. I wondered if they wanted Ford to go first and then they could jump out and say they were better but Ford kicked them in the nuts so now they are scrambling.
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Ok sure... Tesla has lots of QA issues and what not. But i see way more tesla's than i see any other electric vehicle on the road.

A new tech company that is also a car company (as per their TSLA stock lol) it's to be expected...especially in today's world of agile and all that bullcrap.

Ford though has been around for how long!? 118 years... 118 years to perfect development, while it's new tech... there are tons of processes you'd expect them to borrow / recycle from the development of some other models. So i'd have higher expectations. Less excuses to sh!t the bed on that one.

Also you have to remember that GM originally "killed" the electric car in NA... with the hummer, so it's quite the paradox to have a hummer EV.
 
I still consider the upcoming BT1XX Hummer to be an atrocity, a statement of excess, just like the original one was. Too big, too cumbersome, too heavy. Fortunately, it's going to be so expensive that they'll sell very few of them.

I still haven't seen the high-volume version of BT1XX that justifies the production rate of the tooling that I've seen for it ... I've only seen enough chassis-bits that suggest it won't have much underneath that's in common with a regular Silverado.
 
Brian P said:
I still consider the upcoming BT1XX Hummer to be an atrocity, a statement of excess, just like the original one was. Too big, too cumbersome, too heavy. Fortunately, it's going to be so expensive that they'll sell very few of them.

I still haven't seen the high-volume version of BT1XX that justifies the production rate of the tooling that I've seen for it ... I've only seen enough chassis-bits that suggest it won't have much underneath that's in common with a regular Silverado.
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The OG Hummer (not the heavily cladded Silverado) was never meant to be homologated for the road. Thank Arnie for that.
 
LePhillou said:
Ok sure... Tesla has lots of QA issues and what not. But i see way more tesla's than i see any other electric vehicle on the road.
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Bingo! They build cars that people actually WANT to buy.

For a 13 year old company, thirteen years!

The big boys with established R and D centers and mighty deep pockets from US to Germany are still scratching their heads.

mighty impressive.
 
SunnY S said:
Bingo! They build cars that people actually WANT to buy.

For a 13 year old company, thirteen years!

The big boys with established R and D centers and mighty deep pockets from US to Germany are still scratching their heads.

mighty impressive.
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Companies selling multiple millions of vehicles each year vs hundreds of thousands? Selling multiple million, well they at least know what some people want.

As the niche market is growing and becoming more mainstream to be noticed they are all making moves, but in the end they know how to make vehicles in huge volumes. Tesla can't grow organically and expect to be making the same number of vehicles in any short term....but I would not rule out them using the stock price to buy an actual automaker to get there.
 
 
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