Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 190 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

blackcamaro

Well-known member
Pickup? This is one thing that really perplexes me -- why no pickups? Existing chassis are near perfect for conversion
You make good points and I agree. With what you described I would be interested, I’d want chargers everywhere though and a 500-600km range. It’s not uncommon for me to drive 200-400km in a day. If I was always on the search for a charger then I’ll just keep putting gas in F-150’s and getting 900ish km per tank.

Why haven’t they done it yet. The truck lines sell really well so why fix something that isn’t broken? Also some trucks live a pretty hard life. If I was a manufacturer I would want a solid 10 years developing EV technology before backing a warranty on a pick up. Just a couple thoughts no clue if I’m accurate or not.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
I think it is straight economics. Right now, the biggest baddest pickup trucks are 70K+ with a ton of margin for the manufacturer. You could make an electric truck and sell it for a similar price but there would be no margin. Maybe they slot one in at 100K so they keep the margin and see if there are any takers? I don't know. Too much money for me.

The may also have a COG issue with the battery a few feet up in the air and a load capacity issue as the empty truck is now much heavier.
COG and capacity are already solved with trucks. Unlike a car, pickup driveline + fuel tanks are 1500-2000lbs, that's way more capacity than you need for batteries. Lots of room too, you could use the same cavities that housed engine/tranny/transfer case/fuel tanks.

I don't know about margins, I'm guessing the cost difference between a truck drive train and an electric one would be a few thousand.
 

Brian P

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Pickup trucks have a major aerodynamic disadvantage relative to something shaped like a Tesla (any of them - they're all the same general shape - and for good reason). Towing/hauling anything would kill range.

There have been a few proposals out there floating around, the most likely one to see production appears to be Rivian and they might even beat Tesla to this market segment. Remains to be seen what happens when people find out that hauling a camper-trailer cuts range in half ... I think they are targeting the urban occasional-use market as opposed to the heavy-hauling market.

M-B already has an electric version of the Sprinter van in production: Mercedes-Benz unveils new eSprinter all-electric van with specs: 150 km of range and 1000 kg payload - Electrek

Small battery pack, designed for urban delivery, an application where aero drag isn't such a killer. Also, being a van, the aero situation is easier to manage (no open bed).

VW seems likely to build a van version of their soon-to-arrive ID electric vehicle platform; the prototype was called the ID Buzz and it's likely to see production.

It wouldn't trouble me one bit to haul my race bike in an electric van.
 

Brian P

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I don't know about margins, I'm guessing the cost difference between a truck drive train and an electric one would be a few thousand.
Lithium-based batteries are expected to cost somewhere near US$100 per kWh 5 years from now (which realistically is when EVs are expected to start seeing significant market penetration). A 100 kWh battery pack would cost $10,000 at that time (currently a fair bit more than that). That doesn't include the motor, inverter, reduction gearing, cooling systems, charger, HVAC, etc. Of course, the combustion engine and transmission that it is all replacing, costs something as well. It's not an unreasonable first guess to suggest that the cost of all the motor and inverter and driveline and charging bits wipes out the cost of a conventional engine and transmission, and the cost of the battery is the up-charge over the combustion-engine version.

One thing is for sure. EVs have been hyped in the past as being "simple". Not when you build something that meets the expectations of today's customers!
 

caboose56

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I was just watching an EE video on a long (2000 mile) Tesla 3 trip. It worked but it would drive me absolutely nuts. Drive for 200 miles (~3 hours), then charge for 50 minutes. FFS, if I'm going far, I just want to go, not stop 25% of the time.

For the vast majority of the people, the vast majority of the time, this does not matter though. For the one week a year you are going on a driving trip, if if bothers you rent an ICE. The rest of the time it would work fine for me (although not at the current initial cost).
I would absolutely be renting a ICE vehicle if I was going on a road trip. With a Costco membership rentals are cheap.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Pickup trucks have a major aerodynamic disadvantage relative to something shaped like a Tesla (any of them - they're all the same general shape - and for good reason). Towing/hauling anything would kill range.

There have been a few proposals out there floating around, the most likely one to see production appears to be Rivian and they might even beat Tesla to this market segment. Remains to be seen what happens when people find out that hauling a camper-trailer cuts range in half ... I think they are targeting the urban occasional-use market as opposed to the heavy-hauling market.

M-B already has an electric version of the Sprinter van in production: Mercedes-Benz unveils new eSprinter all-electric van with specs: 150 km of range and 1000 kg payload - Electrek

Small battery pack, designed for urban delivery, an application where aero drag isn't such a killer. Also, being a van, the aero situation is easier to manage (no open bed).

VW seems likely to build a van version of their soon-to-arrive ID electric vehicle platform; the prototype was called the ID Buzz and it's likely to see production.

It wouldn't trouble me one bit to haul my race bike in an electric van.
Aerodynamics have a relatively small impact on energy use until you hit highway speeds. Even then, if you do the math, cutting the drag from of an F150 pickup (0.36) to a Tesla S (0.24), only increases highway range by 15% and city by 6%. That is easily offset by 10% larger battery. Of course pickups start off with a lower range due to the mass difference BUT WAIT! that can me mostly offset by considerably higher regenerative braking capability.

The hard thing to work out for pickups is the 'working factor', that's hard to quantify. Plowing snow? Towing? All these could easily cut range from 150 or 50km.
 

Brian P

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Drag coefficient is only part of it; the frontal area is the other part of it. My van (Ram Promaster aka Fiat Ducato) has Cd=0.31 (good for a big box) but A is about 2 square meters. Drag is a big factor at highway speed. Thus M-B targeting urban delivery. Vans are used a lot for that. Pickup trucks, not so much.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Drag coefficient is only part of it; the frontal area is the other part of it. My van (Ram Promaster aka Fiat Ducato) has Cd=0.31 (good for a big box) but A is about 2 square meters. Drag is a big factor at highway speed. Thus M-B targeting urban delivery. Vans are used a lot for that. Pickup trucks, not so much.
I think distance is the primary factor at highway speed, not drag. In an urban setting your average speed will rarely exceed 35KMH, meaning each 150K of range takes 4-5 hours hrs of the workday, unless your in the delivery biz, you aren't driving that much per day. My little Transit Connect vans hit 4 jobs a day, they average 90KM/day and use about 10l/day in fuel - they would be perfect electrified.

If they were on the highway, that 150KM gets chewed up in 1.5hrs - not practical.
 

Brian P

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Certainly that's another factor. Bottom line is that at the moment an EV needs to be a low-drag and non-heavy-hauling vehicle in order to have a range that people will accept, and minimize the size of that expensive battery, or a strictly urban low-range application...but the latter is a tough sell.
 

LiNK666

Well-known member
Thanks everyone.

I absolutely love the car and wouldn't trade it in for anything else except maybe a model Y or the pickup truck that's coming up by Tesla.

No more gas fill ups is amazing. I did about $600 in fill ups monthly and almost monthly oil changes so this is a nice time saving. It pretty much covers 80% of my loan payment.

Here is my pricing:
Base $44,999
Long range rear-wheel (cheaper than AWD) $16,801
19" Sport wheels $2,000
Premium interior $1,300
Full self-driving $7,900
Documentation and delivery $1,280
Total $74,280 + $9,656.40 HST
Financing @ 3.7%
Total was close just above $90k

I had to finance to get some write-offs in the company.

The self-driving/auto-pilot became a necessity for me. I drive a lot ... A LOT. Auto-pilot takes a lot of fatigue out of driving. The car is exceptionally safe. The driving experience is also a very unique one. I prefer the interior of the Tesla where everything is controlled by a screen rather than 100 knobs or switches.

I plan on getting the Tesla pickup when it comes.

I plan on getting this crap wrapped. It gets dirty fast. Any recommendations as to where I can get this wrapped?
 
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Mad Mike

Well-known member
Certainly that's another factor. Bottom line is that at the moment an EV needs to be a low-drag and non-heavy-hauling vehicle in order to have a range that people will accept, and minimize the size of that expensive battery, or a strictly urban low-range application...but the latter is a tough sell.
Agreed. If you're not buying a pickup for work, utility is a big factor in decision making. If you can't tow or go more than 100km on a charge, the utility factor drops alot. Perhaps simple 2 door work trucks could be a market -- there are countless small trucks that are used for light utility work, they might be electric candidates. I'd probably change from a Mini workvan to a lightweight (say Colorado size) electric truck as long as I could get 150km range AND the truck cost $50K or less. Wishful thinking.
 

LBV

Well-known member
It pretty much covers 80% of my loan payment.
That is something that some don't consider when pricing EV's (the previous expenses that go to zero).

The options certainly do add on quick don't they.
 

Wingboy

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What about future costs of an ev? The resale value?
 

r3r3r3

Well-known member
No more gas fill ups is amazing. I did about $600 in fill ups weekly and almost monthly oil changes so this is a nice time saving. It pretty much covers 80% of my loan payment.
What car did you have before that was using $600/week in gas but doing the same mileage as a Tesla?
 

GreyGhost

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What about future costs of an ev? The resale value?
I wouldn't expect Teslas to be much different than any other luxo car (ie huge depeciation). Cheaper EV's would have less depreciation. I would only expect a big hit if a specific model were identified as having a design flaw (eg air cooled batteries with a short lifetime if driven in hot weather).
 

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