And this is why we still need thermal generating capacity

[raginduck]

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Kind of timely.

Wind Energy Is About to Change Everything (Here's What's Coming) - Ontario Energy News

Wind turbines stretching 300 meters into the sky—taller than the Eiffel Tower—will soon harvest energy from powerful offshore winds that current technology cannot reach. These next-generation installations represent just one breakthrough transforming wind energy from a supplementary power source...

www.ontarioenergyreport.ca

cite?

The courts disagree

just driving thru the areas that have the turbines.. the opposition is obvious… North of shelbourne.. grey county area, all you’ll see for miles is turbines.. and protest signs. Rich dudes are buying up thousands of acres of farms.. just to keep them away from their homes.. out of their area. People are building ‘little houses’ at the corners of their land.. to prevent their neighbours from putting in the turbines, etc…
It’s alway an uphill battle in courts when challenging things like that… how long did it take before cigarettes were deemed a hazard and companies held accountable?how many cases were tossed along the way for lack of medical evidence? What about polluters.. Teflon.. how long did that take? How many cases were tossed along the way?
Fracking.. same thing.
etc, etc, etc…

 

[ReSTored]

At some point down the road wind turbine contracts, usually 20 years long, will need to be renegotiated and some contracts (or many, who knows) will not be renewed or may be renewed on financial terms not favorable to the owner.

Contracts stipulate that the owner is responsible for removal of the turbine and decommisioning of the site. However, I understand that funds for this are not in escrow, but would be provided by the owner at the time of decommissioning.

All good for an owner who is solvent ongoing, but if they go bankrupt then the property owner is stuck with a massive facility and disposal bill to deal with at some point in time. Wind turbines and their masts have a finite life and at some point they are going to collapse if not dismantled and removed.

Don't know, but expect that many wind farms are likely set up as separate corporations so that in the event of contract non-renewal or bankruptcy that the owner just walks away from the mess and others will have to pay to clean it up.

 

[GreyGhost]

Don't know, but expect that many wind farms are likely set up as separate corporations so that in the event of contract non-renewal or bankruptcy that the owner just walks away from the mess and others will have to pay to clean it up.

Every one I have seen the details for is setup exactly like that. Eg. Grey County West Phase 1 Wind Inc. Grey County West Phase 2 Wind Inc, Grey County East Phase 1 Wind Inc. etc etc. A handful of turbines that turn public money into private profits and any corp can be easily mothballed. If they wanted to improve optics, it is simple to make a corp insolvent by moving money around (for instance high license fees payable to a different company or a balloon payment due at the end of the 20 year contract to nuke any remaining equity). That way they can argue they aren't walking away from their obligation, they are bankrupt as the government doesn't support green energy properly.

The only reason we have so many turbines is McGuinty and Wynnebag set a crazy high 20 year rate. They argued that domestic content would make canada a world leader in turbine manufacturing. Sound familiar? As soon as the minimum required quantity was built, factories were mothballed and all staff was laid off.

Eyeball average driving through Grey County yesterday had ~20% of turbines offline on a breezy day.

As for green, take a look at the bloodbath around the turbines as birds get smashed out of the sky. They are flying straight into clear skies, they aren't expecting a huge bat to hit them in the side at over 100 km/h.

 

[nobbie48]

At some point down the road wind turbine contracts, usually 20 years long, will need to be renegotiated and some contracts (or many, who knows) will not be renewed or may be renewed on financial terms not favorable to the owner.

Contracts stipulate that the owner is responsible for removal of the turbine and decommisioning of the site. However, I understand that funds for this are not in escrow, but would be provided by the owner at the time of decommissioning.

All good for an owner who is solvent ongoing, but if they go bankrupt then the property owner is stuck with a massive facility and disposal bill to deal with at some point in time. Wind turbines and their masts have a finite life and at some point they are going to collapse if not dismantled and removed.

Don't know, but expect that many wind farms are likely set up as separate corporations so that in the event of contract non-renewal or bankruptcy that the owner just walks away from the mess and others will have to pay to clean it up.

Read up on old oil wells and mines. Different product same problem.

 

[Mad Mike]

As for green, take a look at the bloodbath around the turbines as birds get smashed out of the sky. They are flying straight into clear skies, they aren't expecting a huge bat to hit them in the side at over 100 km/h.

I don’t think it’s that bad. About 7000 birds a year collide with windmills. To put Ontario bird deaths into perspective:

Windmills: 7,000
Powerlines: 3,000,000 (430x more)
Housecats: 20,000,000 (3,000x more)

If you notice, during migratory periods the windmills are shut down.

Also, if any single mill is reported to kill more than 14 birds in a year, it’s subject ok expensive remediation.

 

[GreyGhost]

I don’t think it’s that bad. About 7000 birds a year collide with windmills. To put Ontario bird deaths into perspective:

Windmills: 7,000
Powerlines: 3,000,000 (430x more)
Housecats: 20,000,000 (3,000x more)

If you notice, during migratory periods the windmills are shut down.

Also, if any single mill is reported to kill more than 14 birds in a year, it’s subject ok expensive remediation.

Like police stats, avoid looking/reporting and the stats look good. Most turbines are surrounded by fields. If someone was looking for dead birds, that would be a day a year at most. Pretending that 14 birds a year is remotely an accurate number is embarrassing.

 

[Mad Mike]

Like police stats, avoid looking/reporting and the stats look good. Most turbines are surrounded by fields. If someone was looking for dead birds, that would be a day a year at most. Pretending that 14 birds a year is remotely an accurate number is embarrassing.

Tree huggers are pretty good at monitoring bird kills - triggering remediation is a badge of honor for them so I’d say the 2.5 birds kills/rotor/year average is fair. Even if it was 20x that number, it’s only a rounding error, at .02% of all deaths attributed to human factors. I’d say it’s not a significant issue considering windows, powerlines cars and cats each kill 700-2500x more birds than windmills.

 

[Wingboy]

Daughter did a study in Thunder Bay on the effects of wind turbines.Bats were the most affected.Project was cancelled.Fewer bats means more mosquitoes more chance of west nile virus.

 

[Mad Mike]

Daughter did a study in Thunder Bay on the effects of wind turbines.Bats were the most affected.Project was cancelled.Fewer bats means more mosquitoes more chance of west nile virus.

Less rabies.

Ontario turbine operators now increase the minimum speed for firing up windmills during bat migrations. Also, the demand for nocturnal energy is low during migration periods, so a lot of windmills are getting idled when conditions for bat collisions are high. The trade off is 1-3% energy loss for 79-90% reduction in bat kills.

I also had a niece doing that work too, her project was cancelled too. Turns out the folks funding the research wanted worst case scenarios, not the real world version the lead scientists wanted to use.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Daughter did a study in Thunder Bay on the effects of wind turbines.Bats were the most affected.Project was cancelled.Fewer bats means more mosquitoes more chance of west nile virus.

Bats don't actually eat many mosquitoes not enough energy for the effort.
Debunking Myths: Bats for Effective Mosquito Control - VDCI Debunking Myths: Bats for Effective Mosquito Control - VDCI


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[nobbie48]

At some point down the road wind turbine contracts, usually 20 years long, will need to be renegotiated and some contracts (or many, who knows) will not be renewed or may be renewed on financial terms not favorable to the owner.

Contracts stipulate that the owner is responsible for removal of the turbine and decommisioning of the site. However, I understand that funds for this are not in escrow, but would be provided by the owner at the time of decommissioning.

All good for an owner who is solvent ongoing, but if they go bankrupt then the property owner is stuck with a massive facility and disposal bill to deal with at some point in time. Wind turbines and their masts have a finite life and at some point they are going to collapse if not dismantled and removed.

Don't know, but expect that many wind farms are likely set up as separate corporations so that in the event of contract non-renewal or bankruptcy that the owner just walks away from the mess and others will have to pay to clean it up.

If the land owner can put a lien on the mill the buyer removes it. If it doesn’t sell the landowner buys some dynamite. Once on the ground salvage is cheaper. A stick of dynamite is cheaper than a crane.

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