ADV fad | Page 13 | GTAMotorcycle.com

ADV fad

Adv are good on the street, but are still a compromise, as all types of bikes are.

Most won't do long distance touring on a 600cc supersport. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean its a good idea.
Riding a 600 ss to Deals gap, 14 hours of misery... but get it in the tight bends? that's where it'll shine.
A ktm 1190 on tkc80s would function adequately at the gap, but you can't tell me it'll do better than a sportbike on dunlop q4s.

Right tool for the job.

You hit a nail with a hammer. Just because you can knock that same nail in with an adjustable wrench...

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
 
We did the route for the Rally Connex dual sport ride last April. All North of Shelbourne. Unassumed roads. Hydro cuts. Jeep trails.

Moto Guzzi Stelvio.
Triumph Tiger 1200.
And my wr250r/x...
I rode circles around them offroad.

Lifting the stelvio out of this puddle was frustrating.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
b442ac970b79066dc3fa8d78b5aa73c2.jpg
 
Like Clutt I absolutely LOVE my ADV 1090R. With the Corbin seat, lowered pegs and touring screen I can ride on a multitude of surfaces for hours in comfort and get off at the end feeling good. I love that I can explore most any trail accessible with an ATV while riding miles and miles from home. Though I'm a bit generously proportioned and more naturally padded than I want I have no trouble picking it up or bulling it over an unexpected obstacle.

But the idea of purposefully taking it to the forest to go off road riding has as much appeal as having all my eye lashes pulled out at the same time.

Yes, I can plonk along the access roads and some of W1 but it just doesn't cut it, having ridden off road on built purpose built motorcycles. My expectations inform my enjoyment and they exceed the bikes' capabilities due to its weight, physical size and gearing. I am not suggesting that my skills are or were anything special, but I could go riding with faster guys, keep them in sight and go home uninjured.

On a related note I am in the process of losing my padding (down 26 lbs. so far) and will achieve a particular threshold in February or March, at which point I'm gonna buy me a new (used) dirt bike. Having owned a 690R and before it a 530EXC I've concluded that a 250, 300 or 350 is going to be the most fun.
 
Wow, this girl rocks!
Now do we have a girl like this here in GTA riding local events so I don’t embarrass myself falling off 300lb bike? :)

Dunno about the GTA, but out here in the BC Interior, dirt bike gals with skillz are all over the place. I am routinely embarrassed by pretty much everyone we go riding with, male or female.

This is one of our local riders:


If you live in the 416, it's going to take a concerted effort to get way out into the sticks to ride proper dirt. Easier if you're on the outskirts of the 905. I got out maybe once or twice a month to the Ganny and Simcoe Forest. Maybe a longer trip out to the Maddy once a season. Hard to develop skills when you go that infrequently.

Where we live now, without having to trailer, I can ride to gravel roads 5 minutes outside of my garage door. 10 minutes ride and I'm in the trails. Done more dirt riding the first month we moved out here than all the time I owned a dirt bike in Toronto.

People in rural areas generally have better motorcycle/dirt bike/ATV skills than the townies do.
 
di
We did the route for the Rally Connex dual sport ride last April. All North of Shelbourne. Unassumed roads. Hydro cuts. Jeep trails.

Moto Guzzi Stelvio.
Triumph Tiger 1200.
And my wr250r/x...
I rode circles around them offroad.

Lifting the stelvio out of this puddle was frustrating.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
b442ac970b79066dc3fa8d78b5aa73c2.jpg
did you get any seat time on that stelvio?
What did you think of it? (for purely street riding/sport touring)
 
di

did you get any seat time on that stelvio?
What did you think of it? (for purely street riding/sport touring)
None.

Unless you count ratchet strapping it to a tree and dragging it by the seat out of that puddle.

I'd give it a shot.

I'll ask him next time. He can delight in riding my 290lb toy while I ride his beast.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
 
You guys aren’t wrong. It’s a comprimise.
Im ok with staying on 2 track atv trails and gravel access roads and calling that Off-road. The 250lb bikes or the extremely talented can have that.
Because I can then pull out on the hwy and ride for an hour until I get to a twisty road like the 507 or 118 and your right I may get passed by a SS but after that road ends and he heads back home because his back and wrists are killing him.
I keep riding down the road with the touring bikes but I had more fun today sampling little bits of multiple terrain.

My rides are usually 500+ km and the good ones hit a bit of trail, a bit of hwy and a lot of twisty back roads. I have found some of the best roads since being able to ride through a seasonal road and back out on the black top.
If your going to the Ganny for the day then yes a dirt bike is the tool.
if your going to deals gap or Mosport then a Super sport is the tool.
If your crossing the country on black top get a touring bike.

A few unpaved cottage roads and 700km this day it’s the only style of bike I would want to have taken.

Top of a lookout in Northumberland forest. I would not have taken any street bike up that one. Only about 300 km that day.

Lakeshore road after work in the fall. Fast ride all asphalt no dirt but cold.
Heated grips were a nice option to have.

oops is this where the problem starts. It took longer to take the picture than to pick up the bike. Not a scratch thankfully. What would the guys at Starbucks think if I scratched my bike 😱

I get it it’s not the ride for everyone. If your hardcore fan of Dirt or Sport it’s going to leave you wanting more.
 
You guys aren’t wrong. It’s a comprimise.
Im ok with staying on 2 track atv trails and gravel access roads and calling that Off-road. The 250lb bikes or the extremely talented can have that.
Because I can then pull out on the hwy and ride for an hour until I get to a twisty road like the 507 or 118 and your right I may get passed by a SS but after that road ends and he heads back home because his back and wrists are killing him.
I keep riding down the road with the touring bikes but I had more fun today sampling little bits of multiple terrain.

My rides are usually 500+ km and the good ones hit a bit of trail, a bit of hwy and a lot of twisty back roads. I have found some of the best roads since being able to ride through a seasonal road and back out on the black top.
If your going to the Ganny for the day then yes a dirt bike is the tool.
if your going to deals gap or Mosport then a Super sport is the tool.
If your crossing the country on black top get a touring bike.

A few unpaved cottage roads and 700km this day it’s the only style of bike I would want to have taken.

Top of a lookout in Northumberland forest. I would not have taken any street bike up that one. Only about 300 km that day.

Lakeshore road after work in the fall. Fast ride all asphalt no dirt but cold.
Heated grips were a nice option to have.

oops is this where the problem starts. It took longer to take the picture than to pick up the bike. Not a scratch thankfully. What would the guys at Starbucks think if I scratched my bike 😱

I get it it’s not the ride for everyone. If your hardcore fan of Dirt or Sport it’s going to leave you wanting more.

You're preaching to the choir. This is me with my R12GS:

IMG_4646-X5.jpg


The issue isn't whether these bikes are good all-rounders, they are.

The issue is: are there other motorcycles better suited to terrain like this, if you had the choice to take another bike what would it be?

The issue is: what direction are the motorcycle manufacturers heading in? Are they making the newer "Adventure" bikes easier to handle in terrain like this or more difficult?
 
See that’s what I’m talking about breaking the misconception that ADV bikes just look like they go off-road. That only a gifted few can handle the bike off-road.
As for the new bikes 🤷‍♂️ I really like my 2015
There did seem to be a push toward the lighter mid weight bikes.
But myself I don’t think they are light enough to make them far superior.
On the other hand if you get too light you loose all of what makes an ADV an ADV and your left with a dual sport.
For my style of riding a Dual sport was just too much dirt bike and not enough Sport touring. Like wise a Sport touring was not rugged enough for my intention.
I would love to try out the new 1290sar because the 890 didn’t impress me at all.
It was not enough weight loss for the power loss imo

I just think there is a few people posting that really underestimate how easy these bikes are to enjoyably ride off-road. I’m not talking blistering speeds, Mx track, or trials, but still very much off-road that your just not doing on a street bike.
In just a few attempts I was riding from the west Side of the Ganny to the east side of Northumberland with no drama. Jumping on a rail trail in Hastings and riding it into Marmora. I’m not a great rider probably not even average to be honest.
 
@Clutt-225
My cousins new "pavement princess ".

You're using yours properly.
65d9d3b211e15ded5cec8902e8871aad.jpg


Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
And it will be a wonderful pavement princess.
Although if I was going to stick to asphalt I personally would go Super Duke GT just for the extra attitude. Not that I’ve actually rode either.
 
For my style of riding a Dual sport was just too much dirt bike and not enough Sport touring. Like wise a Sport touring was not rugged enough for my intention.

We had a similar discussion in another thread about what constitutes a sport-touring motorcycle. It's the same with ADVs - it's not a specific definition, but a spectrum, with some models leaning towards the lightweight dirt-bike side, and others tending towards a Goldwing with knobbies.

The problem I see in the industry is that all the manufacturers are crowding the ADV-Goldwing end of the spectrum and there are few models to choose from down the middle and towards the light-weight dirt-capable side.

IMO, 450 lbs wet should be the middle of the spectrum when it comes to weight. That, to me, is a true "middle-weight ADV". There should be just as many new offerings weighing less than that to balance out all the flashy, new 550 lb+ barges. But somehow, that middle point has started shifting towards the heavy side. Obviously it's customer driven. More people are buying the 550 lb pavement princesses and not enough are opting for the 250 lb enduros.

That 2006 R1200GS in the picture above weighed 496 lbs wet. It was considered a heavyweight ADV back in the day. Today, Ducati releases the Desert-X at 500 lbs wet... and calls it a "middle weight ADV". When the F800GS first came out, it was revolutionary. 450lbs wet with dirt-bike like capabilities. The new F850GS is 505 lbs. Heavier than my old R1200GS!

That is entirely the wrong direction.
 
Last edited:
Around the time we were doing our RTW ride, there was another guy out there, also doing his thing on a 690 Adventure. He wrote this on Expedition Portal:


====================

An Open Letter to the Motorcycle Industry​

Noah Horak / September 12th, 2014
DSC_2042.jpg

If you are an adventure rider, chances are you’ve heard of Noah Horak. For the last two years he has ridden his KTM 690 around the world by way of more than 42 countries covering some of the most challenging terrain imaginable. Putting it lightly, he’s learned a thing or two about what it takes to pilot two motorized wheels in proper adventure style. Below is his open letter to the motorcycle industry and those influencing motorcycle design.

Dear Motorcycle Industry,

With the recent announcement of the KTM 1290 “Adventure” I can not sit quietly anymore and watch the “Adventure” bike grow to obese proportions. I must speak up. Adventure is a word thrown around so freely in the motorcycle industry now, I am not sure you remember what a true adventure actually is.

KTM-1290-SUPER-ADVENTURE_MY2015_web

Who am I? I’m a guy who has spent the last two and a half years riding a KTM 690 around the world. It was not an adventure bike when I bought it, but with some work, it has taken me to hell and back. After 120,000km and 42 countries, she is still going strong. My bike and all my camping gear is about 210 kilo. If you can not pick up your bike fully loaded in any situation, it is not an adventure bike.

Now I see the adventure bike market treading into Harley Davidson territory, which is to say selling and idea or image rather then a capable bike. Sorry to the HD fans out there, but the XR750 is the only HD I drool over. Every year manufacturers pump out more and more street touring bikes and slap an “Adventure” bike name on it. KTM, BMW, Triumph, Suzuki, Aprilia, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda are all doing it. The list of 1-liter behemoths is so long I can not keep up. They sell the image of adventure, but when you try to go off the pavement, you quickly find out the bike was not designed for it. So you search for a smaller bike only to find there is a huge gap in the market that no manufacturer seems to want to cash in on. I’ll call the small adventure bike market what it is, the enduro bike market: 250s, DRZ400, 450 race bikes, and outdated air cooled 650s. 450 race bikes are to high strung for travel. Most of the air cooled 650s are great bikes, but they are all in desperate need of a update. So there is basically the choice between DRZ400 and KTM 690. Both are very capable off-road bikes and have been ridden around the world many times by many people. The gap between these 2 bikes is huge. What gives?

The formula for a proper adventure bike is easy: less then 150 kilos, good tune-able off-road suspension, around 50 hp, fuel injected, liquid cooled, and at least a 7500 km oil change interval. A 500 km fuel range would be icing on the cake. I challenge the manufacturers to build the adventure bike I described above and I will be the first person in line with a fist full of dollars.

Maybe this is asking too much. Take one of your 450 race bikes and give it a reliable engine. The weekend warriors would love it if they didn’t have to change their oil every 10 hours. I would love to travel on a that bike. As stated before, the gap between DRZ400 and KTM 690 is huge. So once again, take a minute to let this sink in. We want a reliable lightweight off-road travel bike. We don’t want another 200 + kilo street bike. Adventure comes from the ride and the bikes you are pushing off onto the public are limiting that adventure.

Thank you,
Noah Horak.

====================
 
Around the time we were doing our RTW ride, there was another guy out there, also doing his thing on a 690 Adventure. He wrote this on Expedition Portal:


====================

An Open Letter to the Motorcycle Industry​

Noah Horak / September 12th, 2014
DSC_2042.jpg

If you are an adventure rider, chances are you’ve heard of Noah Horak. For the last two years he has ridden his KTM 690 around the world by way of more than 42 countries covering some of the most challenging terrain imaginable. Putting it lightly, he’s learned a thing or two about what it takes to pilot two motorized wheels in proper adventure style. Below is his open letter to the motorcycle industry and those influencing motorcycle design.

Dear Motorcycle Industry,

With the recent announcement of the KTM 1290 “Adventure” I can not sit quietly anymore and watch the “Adventure” bike grow to obese proportions. I must speak up. Adventure is a word thrown around so freely in the motorcycle industry now, I am not sure you remember what a true adventure actually is.

KTM-1290-SUPER-ADVENTURE_MY2015_web

Who am I? I’m a guy who has spent the last two and a half years riding a KTM 690 around the world. It was not an adventure bike when I bought it, but with some work, it has taken me to hell and back. After 120,000km and 42 countries, she is still going strong. My bike and all my camping gear is about 210 kilo. If you can not pick up your bike fully loaded in any situation, it is not an adventure bike.

Now I see the adventure bike market treading into Harley Davidson territory, which is to say selling and idea or image rather then a capable bike. Sorry to the HD fans out there, but the XR750 is the only HD I drool over. Every year manufacturers pump out more and more street touring bikes and slap an “Adventure” bike name on it. KTM, BMW, Triumph, Suzuki, Aprilia, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda are all doing it. The list of 1-liter behemoths is so long I can not keep up. They sell the image of adventure, but when you try to go off the pavement, you quickly find out the bike was not designed for it. So you search for a smaller bike only to find there is a huge gap in the market that no manufacturer seems to want to cash in on. I’ll call the small adventure bike market what it is, the enduro bike market: 250s, DRZ400, 450 race bikes, and outdated air cooled 650s. 450 race bikes are to high strung for travel. Most of the air cooled 650s are great bikes, but they are all in desperate need of a update. So there is basically the choice between DRZ400 and KTM 690. Both are very capable off-road bikes and have been ridden around the world many times by many people. The gap between these 2 bikes is huge. What gives?

The formula for a proper adventure bike is easy: less then 150 kilos, good tune-able off-road suspension, around 50 hp, fuel injected, liquid cooled, and at least a 7500 km oil change interval. A 500 km fuel range would be icing on the cake. I challenge the manufacturers to build the adventure bike I described above and I will be the first person in line with a fist full of dollars.

Maybe this is asking too much. Take one of your 450 race bikes and give it a reliable engine. The weekend warriors would love it if they didn’t have to change their oil every 10 hours. I would love to travel on a that bike. As stated before, the gap between DRZ400 and KTM 690 is huge. So once again, take a minute to let this sink in. We want a reliable lightweight off-road travel bike. We don’t want another 200 + kilo street bike. Adventure comes from the ride and the bikes you are pushing off onto the public are limiting that adventure.

Thank you,
Noah Horak.

====================
I see his point and agree to a point. But from the manufacturers perspective, when he says "we" he only talking about a handful of people.

"The formula for a proper adventure bike is easy: less then 150 kilos, good tune-able off-road suspension, around 50 hp, fuel injected, liquid cooled, and at least a 7500 km oil change interval. "

The DRZ and 690R come close to this from different sides. Like everything else, for most people a motorcycle must be a compromise.
 
This is exactly right.

Consumers have voted with their dollars. And their dollars are parked outside a Starbucks... Higher ground

🤷‍♂️
 
I see his point and agree to a point. But from the manufacturers perspective, when he says "we" he only talking about a handful of people.

"The formula for a proper adventure bike is easy: less then 150 kilos, good tune-able off-road suspension, around 50 hp, fuel injected, liquid cooled, and at least a 7500 km oil change interval. "

The DRZ and 690R come close to this from different sides. Like everything else, for most people a motorcycle must be a compromise.

There is supposed to be a KTM 490 /R coming, but someone said there are factory problems with Covid right now. KTM at least are beginning to address the smaller market with lightweight high/hp bikes for their size, and they're doing a good job marketing them too.
 
Around the time we were doing our RTW ride, there was another guy out there, also doing his thing on a 690 Adventure. He wrote this on Expedition Portal:


====================

An Open Letter to the Motorcycle Industry​

Noah Horak / September 12th, 2014
DSC_2042.jpg

If you are an adventure rider, chances are you’ve heard of Noah Horak. For the last two years he has ridden his KTM 690 around the world by way of more than 42 countries covering some of the most challenging terrain imaginable. Putting it lightly, he’s learned a thing or two about what it takes to pilot two motorized wheels in proper adventure style. Below is his open letter to the motorcycle industry and those influencing motorcycle design.

Dear Motorcycle Industry,

With the recent announcement of the KTM 1290 “Adventure” I can not sit quietly anymore and watch the “Adventure” bike grow to obese proportions. I must speak up. Adventure is a word thrown around so freely in the motorcycle industry now, I am not sure you remember what a true adventure actually is.

KTM-1290-SUPER-ADVENTURE_MY2015_web

Who am I? I’m a guy who has spent the last two and a half years riding a KTM 690 around the world. It was not an adventure bike when I bought it, but with some work, it has taken me to hell and back. After 120,000km and 42 countries, she is still going strong. My bike and all my camping gear is about 210 kilo. If you can not pick up your bike fully loaded in any situation, it is not an adventure bike.

Now I see the adventure bike market treading into Harley Davidson territory, which is to say selling and idea or image rather then a capable bike. Sorry to the HD fans out there, but the XR750 is the only HD I drool over. Every year manufacturers pump out more and more street touring bikes and slap an “Adventure” bike name on it. KTM, BMW, Triumph, Suzuki, Aprilia, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda are all doing it. The list of 1-liter behemoths is so long I can not keep up. They sell the image of adventure, but when you try to go off the pavement, you quickly find out the bike was not designed for it. So you search for a smaller bike only to find there is a huge gap in the market that no manufacturer seems to want to cash in on. I’ll call the small adventure bike market what it is, the enduro bike market: 250s, DRZ400, 450 race bikes, and outdated air cooled 650s. 450 race bikes are to high strung for travel. Most of the air cooled 650s are great bikes, but they are all in desperate need of a update. So there is basically the choice between DRZ400 and KTM 690. Both are very capable off-road bikes and have been ridden around the world many times by many people. The gap between these 2 bikes is huge. What gives?

The formula for a proper adventure bike is easy: less then 150 kilos, good tune-able off-road suspension, around 50 hp, fuel injected, liquid cooled, and at least a 7500 km oil change interval. A 500 km fuel range would be icing on the cake. I challenge the manufacturers to build the adventure bike I described above and I will be the first person in line with a fist full of dollars.

Maybe this is asking too much. Take one of your 450 race bikes and give it a reliable engine. The weekend warriors would love it if they didn’t have to change their oil every 10 hours. I would love to travel on a that bike. As stated before, the gap between DRZ400 and KTM 690 is huge. So once again, take a minute to let this sink in. We want a reliable lightweight off-road travel bike. We don’t want another 200 + kilo street bike. Adventure comes from the ride and the bikes you are pushing off onto the public are limiting that adventure.

Thank you,
Noah Horak.

====================
This is an author mistake IMHO. He doesnt' define the segment -- manufacturer's do. ADV isn't a replacement word for Enduro, the author seem to thing that's how it should be. I look at them as two different classes.

That magical class he speaks of has too few riders to be a 'market'. It's served exactly the way he did it -- buy a 600-900 ADV and spend a few bucks on crash and suspension upgrades.

If you want a bike that can 'tour' the unpaved third world, it's probably an Enduro you're looking for. If you want capable bike that will dependably cross the American continent at 140kmh with the occassional adventure down a desert trail, dirt/logging or hydro road, a Pan American, Stelvio, Multistrata, Vstrom or SuperTen ADV will do just fine.
 

Back
Top Bottom