So how does one learn just how far a bike can lean when needed on the street safely? You can't. In Halton the crashes are not because they can't do a u turn (illegal in Alberta due to safety concerns), or drive in down town toronto, it's because they don't know how to steer in a hurry. Track teaches how to be smooth, how to transfer weight to which ever tire needs more traction, how to brake smoothly, how to avoid objects mid corner, how to deal with a sliding tire, how to get off brake when when there's is no traction (going over a hill and suddenly it's gravel). The list goes on and on, everything I have learned on the track helps my street riding. Most of us track guys are riding at 50 percent or less on the street so there is always an out. This is my last post on this forum, too many people giving advise about things they're have no first hand knowledge about. Peace out, keep the rubber side down...
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"“It’s not the other vehicle you need to worry about.”" - Halton POlice
- Thread starter griff2
- Start date
Here's where I'll agree...any extra instruction is helpful. It all adds up to experience on a bike and all experience on a bike is going to be beneficial. The question is whether it's necessary and I don't think so. For the street an advanced street course, something like Total Control perhaps, would be better, a dirt bike course would be advantageous too considering the obstacles you encounter on the street.
I believe advanced street riding courses teach all that.
I think it primarily has to do with comfort level.
On the track you're constantly operating at 80%-90% (occasionally going past 100% and bad things happen). That 80% becomes 75% next time, so you go to your new 80%, and you keep getting better and better.
While the skills you learn are extremely important, especially looking where you want to go, all of these skills go out the window if you go past 100%. Everyone's 100% is different but once past that state your rationale is overwritten by instinct and Twist of the Wrist 2 explains the rest.
So on the street, what I'd consider 10%-20% of my riding ability may be conceived as 50%-70% by someone less experienced. In the event of an unexpected situation, the amount of ability required dramatically increases. If it goes past 100%, then you fall.
This is also the same reason why people lean off, less lean angle when leaning off = more lean angle to use if a pinecone appears.
No one is suggesting that track experience is the ONLY way to figure out how to ride properly. It's ONE way to do it. The good advanced street riding courses (e.g. SharpRider) are another way to do it. But they are also not the only way to figure out how to ride properly.
I just wish more people took ANY method of learning how to ride properly.
And it's only the people with no track experience who seem to think that all it does is get people to ride too fast. From actual observation, extensive track experience results in one of two things: people either give up street riding completely, or they get their speed fix on the track and calm down on the street. Of the racers that I know who have street bikes, they're most commonly small-displacement, or dual sport/motard, or naked bikes.
+1 for the guys who have said it already - if you haven't done track days or moto gymkhana or other performance riding events you simply aren't qualified to comment on if they help you for street riding. Your opinion on it doesn't matter, at all.
The discussion that has legitimacy might be "hey can you learn what you need to by track + reading theory? or do you need to take an advanced street safety course as well"...the "does learning more by riding track make you safer on the street" is over and done, it does.
The discussion that has legitimacy might be "hey can you learn what you need to by track + reading theory? or do you need to take an advanced street safety course as well"...the "does learning more by riding track make you safer on the street" is over and done, it does.
If it definitively does then can you again explain why you don't get insurance breaks in the UK for taking a track course but you do for other advanced street courses because the insurance companies really don't seem agree with you. I find that really hard to understand if the evidence for is so glaringly obvious surely insurance companies there would be willing to take much safer risks with those riders doing track courses and therefore save money? This in a country with a much greater proportion of riders. Why get insurance breaks for one but not the other? Odd eh?
blackcamaro
Well-known member
For the guys who can't figure out how track riding helps on the street...bike skills. It's super simple the more skills you have the better off you'll be anywhere you ride. It doesn't mean you'll crash your brains out if you don't ride track and same that if you ride track you'll never crash on the street.
Advanced street class = more bike skills
track days = more bike skills
motocross = more bike skills
flat track, ice racing, trials etc etc etc = all equals more bike skills.
Do do it all or do none it really doesn't matter. But when it comes to a useful bag of tools it's really hard to argue against a rider that has a greater amount of experience riding differently disciplines vs one that has only ridden street before.
Advanced street class = more bike skills
track days = more bike skills
motocross = more bike skills
flat track, ice racing, trials etc etc etc = all equals more bike skills.
Do do it all or do none it really doesn't matter. But when it comes to a useful bag of tools it's really hard to argue against a rider that has a greater amount of experience riding differently disciplines vs one that has only ridden street before.
The funny thing is, since the dawn of time when the car/bike was invented you're up against probably 99.9% of the driving/riding population that hasn't done a lick of anything track related. Now of the .01% that has done track a good portion have probably crashed on the street. So while my opinion doesn't matter, your .01% matters even less to argue track riding helps on the street. LOL.
Hard to argue with that. This is true.
Perhaps, but I am better at both riding and driving than 99.9% of the driving/riding population, including you judging from your posts - I would bet money on it, in fact.
Take from that what you will dude, myself and others have explained the common sense reasons why taking your bike to the track can make you a better rider on the street if you don't engage in a human behavior called 'risk compensation' (to the guy who mentioned insurance companies not discounting for track riding, this is why).
To you, perhaps - dunning-kruger in action.
Hate to say it but EVERYONE thinks they are better than 99.9 percent of all other drivers/Riders in the world, me included.
If they are going slower than us we think they are slow, if they are going faster than us we think they are reckless, if they are doing a wheelie and we can't wheelie for **** we think they are crazy and are going to kill kitties and babies on their way to the next timmis.... it's human nature
but no seriously, I am better
If they are going slower than us we think they are slow, if they are going faster than us we think they are reckless, if they are doing a wheelie and we can't wheelie for **** we think they are crazy and are going to kill kitties and babies on their way to the next timmis.... it's human nature
but no seriously, I am better
kiwi
Well-known member
lol!:lmao:
****. Okay. How much do you want to bet? $1000? I dunno. How do we do this? How will we judge who's a better driver/rider - or did you just want to go by penis size or something?
The track allows you to focus on the task at hand, namely riding fast on a clean road without all the usual obstructions, stationary, moving or hidden. There's value in that obviously but it's highly repetative and mostly predictable. Riding quickly and safely on the street is the bigger challenge. Double that when loaded for Alaska.
Edit: nobody said anything about penis size. Girth? Length? A happy amalgam?
Edit: nobody said anything about penis size. Girth? Length? A happy amalgam?
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Edit: nobody said anything about penis size. Girth? Length? A happy amalgam?
Don't forget post count, and join date. Hair colour might also be a factor. Where you were born. +3 if you are Italian. -4 if you are from Brampton etc..
Face
Well-known member
I think George Carlin owns someone else the credit
Not entirely true. I measure "better" in a very simple way. If the rider was at a track, would they be faster than me? A large portion of you guys on gtam who visit race or are trackday regulars are quite a bit faster than me, but the vast majority of street riders do not track and are slow enough that I could slap with a trout a few times while passing them.
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