Odds are most people need to have a car to both get to the transit hub and to get groceries, kids games, whatever etc. in the burbs. Once you are paying for the car and insurance etc. for most people driving into work is about the same cost or cheaper than adding transit to the mix.
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New Highway 413 Yea or Nay?
- Thread starter Roadghost
- Start date
Riceburner
Well-known member
The commute $ by car is the same as transit for me.....it's the parking that kills. Except for when I can ride.
Basically unless you make the commute by car less efficient than transit, you will not get people on transit. People will choose the path of least resistance becuase... logic. Sure there's stoicism and the environmental conscience but that goes all out the window with 2 kids yelling at each other than are being total PITA.
Oh wait did i just say this out loud? ahahahaha
In my case, car commute was longer (and more painful )and more expensive than transit when parking was factored in. And i can sleep in the train or maybe even get work done.
Otherwise i was riding the motorcycle or the bicycle which, surprisingly took me about the same amount of time.
But in the scenario of the proposed highway unless theres a faster way by transit to go east/west or to get to downtown
We're SOL. As mentioned often times the biggest issue (esp outside of the core) is getting to that last mile after transit drops you off.
oh this just came out this morning lol
obviously we're talking highway but same concept
Oh wait did i just say this out loud? ahahahaha
In my case, car commute was longer (and more painful )and more expensive than transit when parking was factored in. And i can sleep in the train or maybe even get work done.
Otherwise i was riding the motorcycle or the bicycle which, surprisingly took me about the same amount of time.
But in the scenario of the proposed highway unless theres a faster way by transit to go east/west or to get to downtown
We're SOL. As mentioned often times the biggest issue (esp outside of the core) is getting to that last mile after transit drops you off.
oh this just came out this morning lol
obviously we're talking highway but same concept
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Douggie had a press conference today. He says Bradford bypass will not be a toll road. That will sting for 407 as a lot of traffic will now divert off the 404 to 400 section.
Technically he said "our plan for building roads, bridges and highways does not include tolls". That implies that 413 will also be "free".
Technically he said "our plan for building roads, bridges and highways does not include tolls". That implies that 413 will also be "free".
I’m actually OK with toll roads on the only condition that the money raised is 100% used for road / transit purposes….not in a general pile where it’s mixed up with the rest.
I agree, but I would be much more inclined to US level tolls. If the bradford bypass costs $1, it is used by most people. If it cost ~$10 (407 from 404 to 400 is ~$10 plus transponder), it will be another road for the minority and I dislike that. All of the environmental destruction to provide a path for the rich is not good.
Will I be able to ride my unicorn for free in the HOV lane?
It all makes sense now. /s
In all seriousness, municipalities profit as much or more than developers from all the DC's. Add in property taxes for a perpetual revenue bump and they are addicted. A highway allows easy access to a lot of land and highway construction and maintenance comes out of somebody elses budget.
www.thebeaverton.com
"Doug Ford announces new highway that will exclusively deliver money to property development donors"
In all seriousness, municipalities profit as much or more than developers from all the DC's. Add in property taxes for a perpetual revenue bump and they are addicted. A highway allows easy access to a lot of land and highway construction and maintenance comes out of somebody elses budget.
Doug Ford announces new highway that will exclusively deliver money to property development donors
BRADFORD, ON -- Today Premier Doug Ford announced a new highway project which will exclusively allow passage for armoured cars delivering large piles of cash to the wealthy real estate magnates who fund his election campaigns.
www.thebeaverton.com
"Doug Ford announces new highway that will exclusively deliver money to property development donors"
Love the Beaverton.
AllistonGT
Well-known member
Well, where I live, the Bradford bypass would be extremely welcome.
Makes me laugh when I hear complaints of new highways and roads. It's needed to allow the development that will follow. People have to live somewhere. The ones complaining, I guess it was ok though, when they got their house and the roads that support it.
Makes me laugh when I hear complaints of new highways and roads. It's needed to allow the development that will follow. People have to live somewhere. The ones complaining, I guess it was ok though, when they got their house and the roads that support it.
Almost everyone protests farmland destruction once they have their house built on a piece of farmland. Very few people are able (or maybe willing) to understand the process. If future development was frozen, that pushes existing development to the moon.
The 407 donates to charities left, right and center, including 5.2 million to the United Way, announced last year. I take the 407 at least a few times a week ..so i guess when I'm approached by other entities asking for a donation, I can say nope, I already donated to something today.
Yup.. Iived in Bradford for years.
OK, Mr. Mike Schreiner, yeah, let's all sit in our cars in traffic jams, or stopping and going at traffic lights, that's much greener...
It's an interesting discussion. Similar to chicken and egg. The more roads you build, the more people drive and the less likely they are to use public transit. Since they are building almost exclusively detached family homes in the area, public transit will never be a viable option. Of course every house will have multiple cars. The real choice is push them through surface streets or on the highway. The question we should be asking is should this land mass be mostly detached single family homes? Answering that question differently changes everything. I dont think anyone in southern ontario will change built form.
Honestly thats the big slam dunk, changing those zoning restrictions and how we build. We need more density, the sprawl is a never ending ponzi scheme that always requires growth to be sustainable. Get neighborhoods to be more walkable. Get less single family homes and more townhome complexes which helps solve partially affordability and density. Cause we build those highways, sure but where are those people trying to get to!? The same highways that are already packed, every rush hour. Makes it worse for everyone involved
Province and feds came to an agreement. Sounds like feds are no longer blocking this.
toronto.citynews.ca
Feds, Ford government reach deal to proceed with building controversial Hwy. 413
A joint application by the federal and provincial governments has been submitted to cancel the environmental assessment for Highway 413.
toronto.citynews.ca
That reads to me like simply a settlement based on the feds feeling like they're not going to be able to block the highway in the manner they were hoping.
You know, I really was hoping something would cause this project to fall through. It feels ludicrously slimy - the expropriation nonsense, the bulldozing of the concept of environmental assessments, the general stink of Doug Ford. I was hoping it was going to die on the vine years ago, but that didn't happen. I guess the only question now is how many decades will pass before something drives on it. And...
You know, I really was hoping something would cause this project to fall through. It feels ludicrously slimy - the expropriation nonsense, the bulldozing of the concept of environmental assessments, the general stink of Doug Ford. I was hoping it was going to die on the vine years ago, but that didn't happen. I guess the only question now is how many decades will pass before something drives on it. And...
Seems like the 407 consortium will still be around for the completion. I'm feeling cynical today - something about this seems so inevitable to me
There is no doubt that environmentally, using an existing bypass like the 407 is miles ahead. The 99 year lease screwed us and there is no way to economically use the 407. No public land/infrastructure should have 99 year leases. 20 years or less make far more sense as that lets the lessee plan and go through most of a life-cycle before the lease comes up. At that point, government could take it back, lease terms could be renegotiated or a different lessee may move in for another 20 year term. With that program, 407 would have come up five years ago. Douggie could have ended lease and bypass around 401/400 blackhole would be complete at almost zero cost and zero environmental impact.
TK4
Well-known member
The Burlington Skyway and the Garden City Skyway had (realistic) tolls from when they were respectively built until January 1974 at which point they had been paid for and the tolls removed. Construction of the 407 started in October 1993 and was essentially finished in August 2001, eastern extension notwithstanding.
The Gardiner Expressway was then downloaded to the city under Mike Harris and the 407 was sold.
HOV lanes (tolled) for the QEW and 427 were proposed but got slammed down.
Is 413 really necessary ? I would say no because the 407 is grossly underutilized but there's currently no way to fix that. IF the 413 got built, I would propose it being a toll road until paid for like other roads in the province have been and not a moment longer, but I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks for nothing Mike Harris.
The Gardiner Expressway was then downloaded to the city under Mike Harris and the 407 was sold.
HOV lanes (tolled) for the QEW and 427 were proposed but got slammed down.
Is 413 really necessary ? I would say no because the 407 is grossly underutilized but there's currently no way to fix that. IF the 413 got built, I would propose it being a toll road until paid for like other roads in the province have been and not a moment longer, but I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks for nothing Mike Harris.
The QEW sort of has a toll lane. If you sign up for the lottery and win, you can pay $60/month to take the HOV lane with single occupancy. That makes a difference for the 1350 people that can do that. For the remaining 100,000 vehicles a day that use that stretch, they don't have a better somewhat affordable option.
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