Risk understanding and management

TK4

TK4

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From a post on ADVRider -

"I think we're in the process of adapting to how we've changed our social environment. Business and government (both overwhelmingly dominated by men, especially in the USA) have made much of what used to be considered "manly" obsolete. The frontier is gone, and with it much of the need for the "manly" virtues of toughness, strength and risk (I think a big pivot point was rural electrification back in the 1930s). Capitalism and its offspring Taylorism have largely ended skilled craft (it's more profitable to put the skill into the system, be it the organization of the assembly line or a book or a database than to leave it in the heads of people you have to pay). Risk aversion is increasingly good business (Volkswagen replaced its "Drivers Wanted" slogan with "Safe Happens" a decade or so ago). I suspect this transition hit GenX and Millennials hardest, and now GenZ is the first to be brought up in this new reality and to adapt to it.We've also gotten much better at providing simulated risk. Thanks to the unholy alliance of Hollywood and Madison Avenue, there's now a science of bypassing the thought process and directly jerking reflexes and glands. A movie, ride or game can create the bodily thrills of real risk with no actual danger. The excitement that comes from taking chances can now be created in complete safety. Hard to compete with that among a population whose minds have been conditioned to compute safety."
 
TK4 said:
The excitement that comes from taking chances can now be created in complete safety
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What utter BS.

I jumped off the cliff by the grotto in Bruce Penninsula National Park. I jumped out of a plane by myself. I've hung off the side of vintage racing side car set up on the track. I've drag raced my bike down the strip at over 100 MPH.

I'd really like someone to show me the movie, ride or game that can equal any of those.

Without danger where is the thrill?
 
timtune said:
What utter BS.

I jumped off the cliff by the grotto in Bruce Penninsula National Park. I jumped out of a plane by myself. I've hung off the side of vintage racing side car set up on the track. I've drag raced my bike down the strip at over 100 MPH.

I'd really like someone to show me the movie, ride or game that can equal any of those.

Without danger where is the thrill?
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No reward without risk I totally agree.
I think the point that was being expressed is that this generation has other distractions that are risk averse because there's money in it for someone somewhere.
Kinda like drinking decaf coffee or kissing your own sister.
 
TK4 said:
From a post on ADVRider -

"I think we're in the process of adapting to how we've changed our social environment. Business and government (both overwhelmingly dominated by men, especially in the USA) have made much of what used to be considered "manly" obsolete. The frontier is gone, and with it much of the need for the "manly" virtues of toughness, strength and risk (I think a big pivot point was rural electrification back in the 1930s). Capitalism and its offspring Taylorism have largely ended skilled craft (it's more profitable to put the skill into the system, be it the organization of the assembly line or a book or a database than to leave it in the heads of people you have to pay). Risk aversion is increasingly good business (Volkswagen replaced its "Drivers Wanted" slogan with "Safe Happens" a decade or so ago). I suspect this transition hit GenX and Millennials hardest, and now GenZ is the first to be brought up in this new reality and to adapt to it.We've also gotten much better at providing simulated risk. Thanks to the unholy alliance of Hollywood and Madison Avenue, there's now a science of bypassing the thought process and directly jerking reflexes and glands. A movie, ride or game can create the bodily thrills of real risk with no actual danger. The excitement that comes from taking chances can now be created in complete safety. Hard to compete with that among a population whose minds have been conditioned to compute safety."
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I don't agree. In fact I vehemently disagree.

Sure, younger people than us aren't buying motorcycles, and (too) many of them appear not just fixated on the computer in their pocket but completely ruled by it, and there are too many who are cowed into living the fears and prejudices of their parents.

At the same time there are multitudes of young people travelling to places that make many of our age group hide under the covers. They're still hiking/trekking out-of-the-way locales, exploring and camping along the way. Mountain biking has taken the place of off road motorcycling for many and that community looks pretty vibrant and healthy, admittedly from the outside.

The world has ABSOLUTELY shrunk. The life of my father after leaving Holland post WW2 was one of exploration, risk, adventure and ultimately success and satisfaction built here in Canada. Our generation, at least here in North America didn't have the opportunity to experience what he did because the world had evolved and changed, and it continues to change.

At the core I believe the original writer at ADVrider was exercising the usual generational arrogance. If the younger generations are not doing the same things we were, at the same times in their lives, and with the same conviction or passion it's because they're deficient somehow. They lack the verve, or "that thing" that made the writer special at their age. What a load of self-aggrandizing crap.

I read the original bit on ADV, but don't recall who wrote it or the overall gist of the piece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't some dude who's favorite/most used word is "farkle" and obsesses about the specs of the latest and greatest, or shiniest. I'm probably wrong. It could very well come from somebody who who actually does travel, but regardless I still think he or she is completely wrong.
 
xrljoel said:
I don't agree. In fact I vehemently disagree.

Sure, younger people than us aren't buying motorcycles, and (too) many of them appear not just fixated on the computer in their pocket but completely ruled by it, and there are too many who are cowed into living the fears and prejudices of their parents.

At the same time there are multitudes of young people travelling to places that make many of our age group hide under the covers. They're still hiking/trekking out-of-the-way locales, exploring and camping along the way. Mountain biking has taken the place of off road motorcycling for many and that community looks pretty vibrant and healthy, admittedly from the outside.

The world has ABSOLUTELY shrunk. The life of my father after leaving Holland post WW2 was one of exploration, risk, adventure and ultimately success and satisfaction built here in Canada. Our generation, at least here in North America didn't have the opportunity to experience what he did because the world had evolved and changed, and it continues to change.

At the core I believe the original writer at ADVrider was exercising the usual generational arrogance. If the younger generations are not doing the same things we were, at the same times in their lives, and with the same conviction or passion it's because they're deficient somehow. They lack the verve, or "that thing" that made the writer special at their age. What a load of self-aggrandizing crap.

I read the original bit on ADV, but don't recall who wrote it or the overall gist of the piece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't some dude who's favorite/most used word is "farkle" and obsesses about the specs of the latest and greatest, or shiniest. I'm probably wrong. It could very well come from somebody who who actually does travel, but regardless I still think he or she is completely wrong.
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The Podcast that led to the thread including that remark was with the guy who built Confederate Motorcycles. Need we say more ?

 
Everybody has a different 'risk' tolerance / profile and it's very difficult to have something feel risky in a similar fashion to others.

But in the end...anything that's 'risky' and done safely isn't really that risky anymore...and the mind knows it.

I KNOW that flying is safe, and yet when I bounce up and down in turbulence I still feel fear.

I KNOW that going up on a ladder is (fairly) safe...but I still shake uncontrollably when I have to get back on said ladder from my roof.

People adapt to risk, but the brain can't be fooled that easily IMO and knows that even though something is scary...there's a seatbelt / off button / protections available.
 
Wingboy said:
When a ladder gets me up, i always look down and wonder if i can just jump and use a plf (parachute landing fall) without breaking anything.
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I did that when I was a kid.

But I was on the roof with a parachute I made out of 20 lb. test and an old sheet, and I did jump.

<checks pulse> Still alive.
 
crankcall said:
Im ok with almost anything that I have some control over , downhill skiing , mountain bike , motorbike , all good . Its the tied to somebody else level of contol that gets me.
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Those are all dependent on other people's control unfortunately.

Each depends on other uses of trails, roadways, etc to be skilled enough not to kill / injure anyone else.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
I did that when I was a kid.

But I was on the roof with a parachute I made out of 20 lb. test and an old sheet, and I did jump.

<checks pulse> Still alive.
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I knew a guy that, as a kid, broke both ankles jumping off a roof, hopefully a bungalow.

He said the Superman cape didn't help.
 
Look up Karel Soucek. Skydived with him in the early 80's. Thought he was Superman.
 
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