Kawasaki Is About to Ruin 2-Strokes Forever

T

Trackday

Well-known member
This is old news as almost a year ago Kawasaki said they are bringing back a 2-stroke—great, right? WRONG what I’m hearing, they’re about to ruin it.

First off… oil injection.
Why? Why would they do this? Inject oil? Directly? Like some kind of modern machine? I want to stand at the tailgate at 6 a.m., half asleep, pouring oil into a gas. But no—Kawasaki wants to take away that heritage, that ritual, that delicate art. “Just ride,” they say. “It’s convenient,” they say. Well, I say: NO.

Then… fuel injection.
Oh of course. Because carbs are too “old school.” Too “dirty.” Too “simple.” Too “tunable with a flathead screwdriver and pure emotion.” Now the bike needs a mini ECU, a TPS, maybe even a laptop cable like some kind of jetless dirt-bike laptop creature. What’s next? Power Tuner app, A diagnostic port? A firmware update?

I didn’t sign up for that. I signed up for jets, needles, air screws, and a prayer.

But wait… hold onto your handlebars… counterbalancer shaft.
Apparently Kawasaki wants 2-strokes to be smooth. SMOOTH?
A real 2-stroke shouldn’t be smooth. It should buzz your hands like an angry hornet colony. It should make your feet go numb halfway through the ride so you think you’re getting frostbite in July. That’s tradition. That’s character. That’s the 2-stroke way.

And then the final insult… electric start.

Look—all I want is to casually stall my 2-stroke at the top of a hill and then spend three minutes doing the kickstart dance while my buddies laugh. I want a bike that boots back when I kick it wrong and sends a lightning bolt up my shin. I want the struggle. The suffering. The bond.

So yeah. Kawasaki might be bringing back a 2-stroke—but if it has oil injection, fuel injection, a counterbalancer, and electric start, then I’m telling you right now:

It’s over. They’ve destroyed it. The golden age is gone.

I’ll be over here hugging my carbureted premix-powered kickstart-only rattle-snake of a bike.

Because that, my friends…
is what a real 2-stroke is supposed to be.
 
My guess is a combination of emissions and consumer demand. Like HD, the people that don't want things to change are dying off. Give most teenagers a 2T and they will have no clue and it will either be abandoned in a shed as a pos that won't run or blown up with no knowledge/desire to rebuild it.
 
Are you nuts? The "golden age" of the 2 stroke was 40-50 years ago, depending on who you are talking to. Do you also complain about automatic ignition timing, or that time they added filters to cigarettes? Transmission fluid isn't any good anymore after they took the whale oil out?
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Are you nuts?
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Yes.
TwistedKestrel said:
The "golden age" of the 2 stroke was 40-50 years ago, depending on who you are talking to. Do you also complain about automatic ignition timing,
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Yes.
TwistedKestrel said:
or that time they added filters to cigarettes?
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Yes.
TwistedKestrel said:
Transmission fluid isn't any good anymore after they took the whale oil out?
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Agreed.

(I kid, of course, along with the OP who I think has a healthy amount of tongue in cheek, but I'm of an age where two-strokes didn't really exist in street bikes. Just GP bikes, dirt bikes and chainsaws, so I only have nostalgia by proxy. My main connection with them now is my dirt riding buddies complaining that the 4T motors need just as regular rebuilds as the old 2T counterparts, but the work involved is significantly more.)
 
KTM rolled out oil-injection and fuel-injection on their two-strokes, but let’s be honest—it was pushed more by emissions rules than by innovation. TPI was hyped as “the future,” yet riders quickly discovered that the future came with sensors that failed, oil pumps that starved engines, and throttle response that felt… well… sluggish.

The aftermarket reacted instantly with kits to rip out the oil-injection and drag the bike back to the glory days of premix.

Then KTM pivoted to TBI—basically admitting, “Yeah, TPI wasn’t it.” The new sales pitch? TBI finally makes the bike feel like a carburetor again. And just to stir the pot, KTM offered two versions: premix and oil-injected.

Social media lit up with riders complaining about oil injection, fuel injection, weight, complexity—pick a topic, someone hates it.

Meanwhile, four-strokes have been fuel-injected for more than a decade and everyone celebrated it as progress. More wires? More sensors? No kickstarter? Sure! Except for the Suzuki RM diehards still clinging to the past.

But bolt fuel injection onto a two-stroke and suddenly the sky is falling and the sport is doomed.

If riders are truly that opposed to fuel-injected two-strokes… then why isn’t Yamaha’s carb’d two-stroke the best-selling bike on earth?

The “good old days” were when dirt bikes were simple and anyone with a wrench could fix one. No laptops, no sensors, no mystery failures—just spark, fuel, and go. Riders don’t want tech that breaks, costs more to repair, and feels like a cash grab. And with KTM under pressure, you can bet prices are only heading in one direction.

Remember: if it’s not broken, why change it? Just look at pickup trucks—they’re still rolling around with solid rear axles and leaf springs, the same basic setup they had in the 1920s. Sometimes the old way really is the better way.

If the new Kawasaki is just going to be a green KTM, then what is the point. We have enough bad and broken bikes on the market we don’t need another.
 
I have a bunch of 2strokes from the glory days, they are a bunch of work to keep running.

Lets go thru the '***** List's.

Oil injection. All 2stroke motorcycles and scooters except race bikes have been oil injected since 1965 - 60 years now. It's simple and it works.

Fuel injection. While relatively new for 2ts, it's dependable and provides a lot of benefits. Easy cold starts, no rejetting for altitude,20-30% better mileage (and range), no plug fouling or spooge in exhaust.

Counterbalancer. If you've ridden one for anything but MX you'd appreciate a counterbalancer. I rode a TS200r for a long time, it was comfortable in the road for day long rides. While they are a small tax to response, the benefit to the rider is considerable.

Electric start. Kick start is nostalgic, but after kicking bikes for 50+ years, I can live without one. Also let's me ride with flip-flops instead of boots.

The good news is there are a zillion vintage 2 stroke bikes still running (5 in my garage). Just grab one of those.

And if kicking bikes excited you, come on over and try kicking over my Goldwing (yes, it has a kick start).
 
Mad Mike said:
And if kicking bikes excited you, come on over and try kicking over my Goldwing (yes, it has a kick start).
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You joke but I actually have wanted to try that ever since I learned about that nifty emergency feature
 
All I can picture is Grandpa Simpson going off about change. More young people need to get into motorcycles. It's almost painful listening to all you broken hip, geriatric mofo's complain about advancement.
 
Renboy said:
All I can picture is Grandpa Simpson going off about change. More young people need to get into motorcycles. It's almost painful listening to all you broken hip, geriatric mofo's complain about advancement.
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Is it as painful as watching a generation of bubble wrapped mommyboy mofos too afraid to mount a motorcycle?

At least those geriatrics are brave and tough enough to keep the industry's heart beating.
 
When it comes to off-road riding, the king of the woods is—and always has been—the two-stroke. Time after time it proves why: light, snappy, simple, and unbeatable in rocks and ruts. That’s why nearly every hard-enduro rider on the planet chooses one. The handful of four-strokes you see out there? Usually someone getting paid to ride them.

KTM rolled out TPI because of emissions, not because riders asked for it. The market pushed back hard, and thousands of owners rushed to the aftermarket to rip it out and go back to premix. KTM got the message—sort of—and released TBI. But again, emissions drove the design. Now we’ve got two versions: a “closed-course” premix model for the people who actually ride hard enduro, and a fully injected oil-and-fuel version for everyone else.

Oil injection isn’t new in ATVs or street bikes, but in serious off-road—especially hard enduro—it’s a newcomer. And the reaction is the same as it was with TPI: riders are yanking it off and converting back to premix. It’s obvious the customer base isn’t being heard. Riders want premix and simplicity, not more sensors, pumps, and failure points.

The rumour mill says the new Kawasaki two-stroke is going to be a straight KTM clone—just a green version. Meanwhile Yamaha has it figured out. They haven’t changed their two-stroke in more than 15 years, because they actually understand the market. Off-road riders want to fill a jerry can, dump in a measured shot of oil, shake it in the back of the pickup on the way to the trailhead, and go ride.

Manufacturers need to listen to their core riders. Look at Harley-Davidson—when they drifted away from what their base wanted, sales tanked. The new leadership is starting to correct course by going back to the fundamentals.

Riders want simple, bombproof bikes—no gimmicks, no delicate electronics—just a carburetor, a jerry can, and a little spilled premix on the ground. If you can’t mix your own gas and oil, maybe you shouldn’t be riding.
 
GreyGhost said:
Your old bones don't like it, it doesn't want to start if you try it or electric start works so why bother?
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I think it's just there for nostalgia sake. Hot or cold,i can't get it to fire. Bigger, stronger guys than me have tried to no avail.
 
I was lucky enough to experience the 2 stroke era and their glory days, beginning with a Yamaha Twin Jet 100 in `68. It`ll never happen but consider what could have been had the Yamaha GL750 and the Kawi square four 750 of the early `70`s been allowed to develop beyond the show circuit. With today`s tech a 200+ hp two stroke 750 in a reliable, clean, light package is totally do-able. It`s pointless to attempt to explain any of that time to anyone under 40. Let them ride a perfectly set up TZ 250 at Shannonville and just maybe..... Ahhh...perchance to dream, I`m going for my cup of tea and cucumber sammich now, bedtime comes early at 7.
 
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Trackday said:
When it comes to off-road riding, the king of the woods is—and always has been—the two-stroke. Time after time it proves why: light, snappy, simple, and unbeatable in rocks and ruts. That’s why nearly every hard-enduro rider on the planet chooses one. The handful of four-strokes you see out there? Usually someone getting paid to ride them.

KTM rolled out TPI because of emissions, not because riders asked for it. The market pushed back hard, and thousands of owners rushed to the aftermarket to rip it out and go back to premix. KTM got the message—sort of—and released TBI. But again, emissions drove the design. Now we’ve got two versions: a “closed-course” premix model for the people who actually ride hard enduro, and a fully injected oil-and-fuel version for everyone else.

Oil injection isn’t new in ATVs or street bikes, but in serious off-road—especially hard enduro—it’s a newcomer. And the reaction is the same as it was with TPI: riders are yanking it off and converting back to premix. It’s obvious the customer base isn’t being heard. Riders want premix and simplicity, not more sensors, pumps, and failure points.

The rumour mill says the new Kawasaki two-stroke is going to be a straight KTM clone—just a green version. Meanwhile Yamaha has it figured out. They haven’t changed their two-stroke in more than 15 years, because they actually understand the market. Off-road riders want to fill a jerry can, dump in a measured shot of oil, shake it in the back of the pickup on the way to the trailhead, and go ride.

Manufacturers need to listen to their core riders. Look at Harley-Davidson—when they drifted away from what their base wanted, sales tanked. The new leadership is starting to correct course by going back to the fundamentals.

Riders want simple, bombproof bikes—no gimmicks, no delicate electronics—just a carburetor, a jerry can, and a little spilled premix on the ground. If you can’t mix your own gas and oil, maybe you shouldn’t be riding.
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2T riders will ridicule estart until they actually own a 2T with it and then they won't want to live without it. Same can be said for a counterbalanced engine. Many people avoid the Yamaha for this reason.
I do agree with sticking to carbs and not adding additional sensors.
My light, carbed, counterbalanced, estart, orange frame 2T is my ideal bike and I'll always own it.
 

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Hardwrkr13 said:
2T riders will ridicule estart until they actually own a 2T with it and then they won't want to live without it. Same can be said for a counterbalanced engine. Many people avoid the Yamaha for this reason.
I do agree with sticking to carbs and not adding additional sensors.
My light, carbed, counterbalanced, estart, orange frame 2T is my ideal bike and I'll always own it.
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I have something similar with TBI still need to mix the gas. I also have one with a carb and no balance shaft. The carbed one is faster but the fuel injected one is nicer to ride.

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Scuba Steve said:
I have something similar with TBI still need to mix the gas. I also have one with a carb and no balance shaft. The carbed one is faster but the fuel injected one is nicer to ride.

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My good friend has a 22 or 23 300XC that he converted to premix as well. Also has a fancy expensive aftermarket ECU and high comp head and he prefers mine as do I. Mine tries to kill me on most rides and I like that.
 
Hardwrkr13 said:
2T riders will ridicule estart until they actually own a 2T with it and then they won't want to live without it.
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I had an 81' RD350LC. No estart and it didn't need one. Always one or 2 kicks. That's the one I should not have sold.....
 
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