Provincial change to tows

[PrivatePilot]

So it is good with you of they decide to randomly impound your car and make you pay the fees even if you weren't going 50 over and the cop made it all up. Still on the hook for thousands after being found not guilty.

And how often are you suggesting this happens? Got any stories to share?

Police need to be able to prove their case in court, typically with a radar capture. Without that they know they have zero percent chance of a conviction. The courts have little patience for police wasting their time dragging people into court with these charges without proof only to have them thrown out immediately. The police also know that.

It's a common argument used by people against this law, but it doesn't seem to be something that's actually based in reality. If it was happening routinely we'd all hear about it endlessly.

No they won't it has happened and no one has ever got a red cent back from the police.

Pretty sure a good lawyer would make it work, and also equally sure that any agreements reached that had the dependent reimbursed for such would be kept under a very tight NDA.

 

[ToSlow]

I've heard of police pacing cars and bikes and writing tickets, never witnessed it so i don't know if it's true. but if it happens can the person go to court and win the case giving lack of evidence?

 

[Gnu]

Police need to be able to prove their case in court,

Exactly, in court, not at the side of the road.

 

[Scuba Steve]

And how often are you suggesting this happens? Got any stories to share?

Police need to be able to prove their case in court, typically with a radar capture. Without that they know they have zero percent chance of a conviction. The courts have little patience for police wasting their time dragging people into court with these charges without proof only to have them thrown out immediately. The police also know that.

It's a common argument used by people against this law, but it doesn't seem to be something that's actually based in reality. If it was happening routinely we'd all hear about it endlessly.



Pretty sure a good lawyer would make it work, and also equally sure that any agreements reached that had the dependent reimbursed for such would be kept under a very tight NDA.

Look up Mahoney bruher for one example there have been other the victims never got tow charges back.

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[PrivatePilot]

And how many have?

Bad new travels fast. Good, we seldom hear about, especially when it's very heavily cloaked in NDA's and lawyers agreements, or is done with little fanfare as is possible in small claims court here in Ontario now.

The crown has been chastised by the courts before for bringing forth charges that had no hope of sticking. The police know that if they don't have a hope of making a charge stick (IE, even a dollar store paralegal will get it tossed in 90 seconds flat) they'd better not bring it forth and waste the courts time.

 

[Scuba Steve]

And how many have?

Bad new travels fast. Good, we seldom hear about, especially when it's very heavily cloaked in NDA's and lawyers agreements, or is done with little fanfare as is possible in small claims court here in Ontario now.

The crown has been chastised by the courts before for bringing forth charges that had no hope of sticking. The police know that if they don't have a hope of making a charge stick (IE, even a dollar store paralegal will get it tossed in 90 seconds flat) they'd better not bring it forth and waste the courts time.

Sure but you are still on the hook for the tow and storage as these aren't technically fines.

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[Rob MacLennan]

Yeah, no, I'm perfectly good with that happening. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Forgetting that we already had the sort of thing that people like me predicted was going to happen, when that law was passed.

WRT changes to the towing industry, they're badly needed. If you have criminal activity in an industry, which we demonstrably do, then there needs to be both regulation and enforcement of that regulation. Unfortunately various levels of government have proven that they are more than willing to create laws, but less than willing to enforce them. I refer to it as "governance by sound-bite."

 

[Mad Mike]

And how often are you suggesting this happens? Got any stories to share?

Happened to a friend spring of 2019. OPP MC cop said he clocked him at 162 eastbound on the 407. In the cop's notes, he said he was parked under the bridge at the 404, caught the driver before Warden offramp. Riding a cop Harley.

The basic calculus doesn't work, he took 2 readings, 160, 161, stowed his gear, launched his bike then overtook a car and pulled it over in less than 1km. In the best case it sould have taken him a<4km to catch the car IF he was able to stow his radar and launch his bike to it's max speed of 175KMH (tested without cop gear and a 150lb rider). The cop was probably 250 with gear, and another 10lbs of payload for the bike equipment making the 4km doubtful.

The cop dismissed 3 licence tow trucks, insisted on using a 'reputable highwayman' that he called. Tow was $1K, more than triple the Markham licence rates. Town of Markham chief of bylaw enforcement said they have licencing rules that include max rates for tow operators, but no enforcement capabilities so tow operators file the rates but charge what they like. The tow operator selected by the cop was one of the guys torched in Richmond Hill up earlier this year.

The case has been put off by the crown 3 times with no reason given, it will likely be dismissed on charter rights to speedy trial as it's coming up on 18 mos. According to friend's attorney there are several cases, same cop, that are suspect. There have been several cops in the last couple of years caught in corrupt tow relationships.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

And how often are you suggesting this happens? Got any stories to share?

Police need to be able to prove their case in court, typically with a radar capture. Without that they know they have zero percent chance of a conviction. The courts have little patience for police wasting their time dragging people into court with these charges without proof only to have them thrown out immediately. The police also know that.

It's a common argument used by people against this law, but it doesn't seem to be something that's actually based in reality. If it was happening routinely we'd all hear about it endlessly.



Pretty sure a good lawyer would make it work, and also equally sure that any agreements reached that had the dependent reimbursed for such would be kept under a very tight NDA.

Three words. Dennis. Mahoney. Breuer.

 

[ungoloth]

$380 to get my daughters car towed (in rush hour) off the 401 a few hundred yards to a place where I could safely change her flat tire. After seeing the huge risk these guys take to hook up and then basically hail-Mary cut off traffic at highway speed, I was glad to pay up. There was no way I was risking changing to a spare on the side of the 401.
Having said the above, I'm sure there are horror stories about tow truck scams and would support regulation and enforcement etc.
CAA 'plus' is looking like good insurance after our experience.

 

[GreyGhost]

$380 to get my daughters car towed (in rush hour) off the 401 a few hundred yards to a place where I could safely change her flat tire. After seeing the huge risk these guys take to hook up and then basically hail-Mary cut off traffic at highway speed, I was glad to pay up. There was no way I was risking changing to a spare on the side of the 401.
Having said the above, I'm sure there are horror stories about tow truck scams and would support regulation and enforcement etc.
CAA 'plus' is looking like good insurance after our experience.

I am always annoyed by the straight lies that the majority of tow truck drivers spout with impunity. Even having a strong licensing process where being caught in a lie on video has serious repercussions (license suspension starting at a month and escalating quickly) would help. I had a hiccup requiring a quick peak to see if the car was safe to drive (big bang in engine compartment followed by lots of lights). I pulled over onto the shoulder of the 401 in TO (shoulder of exit ramp so lots of distance to traffic) and a tow truck was on me in less than a minute. "I am legally required to tow you" "Now that you have stopped, you cannot legally continue to drive", "I will take you to a good mechanic", etc. *&^*&^, piss off. I could see the alternator clutched pulley had seized and launched off. It was nowhere to be found. Car was safe to continue driving. See ya prick.

I have no problem paying if they are up front and honest and I actually want the service. In my experience with trucks in the GTA, they are not up front, not honest and I very rarely want their service.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I am always annoyed by the straight lies that the majority of tow truck drivers spout with impunity. Even having a strong licensing process where being caught in a lie on video has serious repercussions (license suspension starting at a month and escalating quickly) would help. I had a hiccup requiring a quick peak to see if the car was safe to drive (big bang in engine compartment followed by lots of lights). I pulled over onto the shoulder of the 401 in TO (shoulder of exit ramp so lots of distance to traffic) and a tow truck was on me in less than a minute. "I am legally required to tow you" "Now that you have stopped, you cannot legally continue to drive", "I will take you to a good mechanic", etc. *&^*&^, piss off. I could see the alternator clutched pulley had seized and launched off. It was nowhere to be found. Car was safe to continue driving. See ya prick.

I have no problem paying if they are up front and honest and I actually want the service. In my experience with trucks in the GTA, they are not up front, not honest and I very rarely want their service.

The number of times that they tow you to 'their' garage is truly ridiculous. I've got CAA. If I need a tow, I call CAA. If some random tow truck driver stops and claims that 'he's required to to me', then on yer bike, idiot.

 

[Mad Mike]

I use a local company, Budget Towing. The 70 yr old owner still get into trucks for easy calls, prices are fair and their guys all seem to be honest.

Dying breed

 

[raginduck]

And how often are you suggesting this happens? Got any stories to share?

Police need to be able to prove their case in court, typically with a radar capture. Without that they know they have zero percent chance of a conviction. The courts have little patience for police wasting their time dragging people into court with these charges without proof only to have them thrown out immediately. The police also know that.

It's a common argument used by people against this law, but it doesn't seem to be something that's actually based in reality. If it was happening routinely we'd all hear about it endlessly.



Pretty sure a good lawyer would make it work, and also equally sure that any agreements reached that had the dependent reimbursed for such would be kept under a very tight NDA.

Look into it.. and you will find that most HTA 172 charges do not hold up in court.

 

[GreyGhost]

Look into it.. and you will find that most HTA 172 charges do not hold up in court.

If the charge that sticks in court is not HTA 172, they should pay back double what the seizure cost you. Or better yet, don't (*&(*&(*& seize things before a court assesses whether evidence is sufficient to find you guilty. Idiot politicians.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Look into it.. and you will find that most HTA 172 charges do not hold up in court.

And the victim is still on the hook for towing and impound, it should come directly out of the cops salary if the charge doesn't stick.

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[Gnu]

I am always annoyed by the straight lies that the majority of tow truck drivers spout with impunity. Even having a strong licensing process where being caught in a lie on video has serious repercussions (license suspension starting at a month and escalating quickly) would help. I had a hiccup requiring a quick peak to see if the car was safe to drive (big bang in engine compartment followed by lots of lights). I pulled over onto the shoulder of the 401 in TO (shoulder of exit ramp so lots of distance to traffic) and a tow truck was on me in less than a minute. "I am legally required to tow you" "Now that you have stopped, you cannot legally continue to drive", "I will take you to a good mechanic", etc. *&^*&^, piss off. I could see the alternator clutched pulley had seized and launched off. It was nowhere to be found. Car was safe to continue driving. See ya prick.

I have no problem paying if they are up front and honest and I actually want the service. In my experience with trucks in the GTA, they are not up front, not honest and I very rarely want their service.

As soon as the tow truck stops, I tell them I have CAA. This makes most leave. The ones that don't I tell them I won't be paying them, they have to bill CAA directly and they always leave.

 

[Evoex]

They have contract rates, but these are simply administrative -- tow operators don't follow them. Tow operators also cheat... my kid had a tow recently and when he got the bill it was double the filed rates PLUS there were surcharges: $150 for highway hookup (he was able to get well off the highway onto an offramp intersection) $150 for dollies (never used, dash cam footage shows dollies neatly stowed on the truck), and another $40 surcharge for 407 tolls (again, never used). A tow from Markham Rd to his mechanic at HWY and Woodbine (about 15km) was $500.

I got him beat.

I paid $450 u.s. in iceland to get a tow 20 feet down the road. ?

 

[slowbird]

When I dispatched for the Police I would take numerous calls daily from citizens in small fender benders saying a tow truck driver is there telling them their cars aren't drive-able and needs a tow. When I'd ask why it was always some ******** like a broken mirror or turn signal.

I'd explain to them that the tow truck driver was lying to get them to tow their vehicle to make $$ and they were fine to drive the vehicle to a reporting center. Many times they'd ask me to speak to the Tow driver for them and I'd have to tell the Vulture to stop lying to the citizen and bugger off.

 

[Brian P]

The one and only time I have ever been at-fault in a collision (traffic ahead stopped while I was adjusting radio volume, and I didn't quite make it), we got out of our respective vehicles, the driver in front observed no damage to their own vehicle and said "have a nice day" and left, around that time was when the tow truck arrived and tried to tell me that my rusty old truck wasn't driveable because the grille was broken and the bumper had a dent in it. "It's a reportable collision because the damage is more than $700" ... to which I responded "Not the way I'm going to fix it!" then got in and drove off. This was probably 30 years ago. I bought another grille at a junkyard and beat the bumper back into good-enough shape. Tow-truck drivers have been called vultures for a long, long time ...

I repaid the favour a year or two later when someone else slid into the back of the same truck and bent the rear bumper and broke a taillight lens. "Give me 20 bucks for a new taillight and let's call it good. I don't care about the bumper." Done deal.