GPS tracking anti-theft device?

chiefswallow said:
I was the one who sent you a PM asking about it :) Thanks for posting.

It would be a tough call whether to make it silent, so the thieves wouldn't know right away that it had an alarm and you might possibly recover it, or to leave the siren connected to try and prevent the theft??? Tricky.
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yes true. My old bike came with a factory alarm - It was crap. It sounded like a truck backing up!! lol! so I figured no one would look at it. So I kept that one on for "Audio" notifications, and ran the RLINK one for tracking purposes.

I see RLINK has upgraded the software, and the system I have will use the new RIDE system. hmm.. could be worth holding on to the alarm now.. lol.. the new RIDE Modular system they are selling now doesnt have the RFID part of the system the RLINK does..
 
kiwi said:
yes true. My old bike came with a factory alarm - It was crap. It sounded like a truck backing up!! lol! so I figured no one would look at it. So I kept that one on for "Audio" notifications, and ran the RLINK one for tracking purposes.

I see RLINK has upgraded the software, and the system I have will use the new RIDE system. hmm.. could be worth holding on to the alarm now.. lol.. the new RIDE Modular system they are selling now doesnt have the RFID part of the system the RLINK does..
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Guys,

Thank you for your interest in our products.

We have over a decade of experience in GPS tracking using the very latest equipment.

We offer low-cost units and high-end European manufactured devices –depending on the level of functionality and reliability required.

Here is some feedback to address some of the features you guys are seeking:

1. Geo Fencing

The battery stamina in motorcycles is rather poor. Therefore, our devices have substantial internal batteries combined with carefully designed, efficient electronics which consume very little power.

Geo Fencing is an invisible fence, which you may specify in a variety of ways, which provides alerts as Assets Enter &/or leave, or even travel near.

However, in order for Geo Fencing to work instantaneously, the Geofence location must be set in the hardware (tracker), and the GPS chipset must be running fulltime to monitor the Asset’s position at all times.

This would eat the battery in the tracker in 20 or so days if on full time.

The best way is to set the Geo Fence in our Server.

The Tracker periodically sends its position and the server checks this against GeoFences.

If the Geofence is breached, the server alerts the user rather than the tracker.

The downside is that a server needs maintenance and attracts a monthly fee.

We can provide SIMs as part of the bundle. So, you get the device, the server access (Mapping, reports, geofence etc) & the hardware.

We would need to charge a small fee for the hardware, coupled to a low monthly, all-inclusive fee.

It’s difficult to see this getting below $150 for hadware & $15 /month, however.

2. The ‘Wind’ frequency is indeed odd at 1700MHz.

Can you not but a Pay As You Go SIM and top-it-up periodically on and of the other networks?

3. We cannot offer our Pro device in the US currently as the networks do not support LBS (enCell GSM Triangulation) there.

Please don’t hesitate to contact us in order that we may work on a perfect motorcycle solution for members of your Forum and Clubs.

Kind regards,

Greg McGarry
boomerangtracker.com
 
Greg B.Tracker said:
1. Geo Fencing

This would eat the battery in the tracker in 20 or so days if on full time.
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That sounds OK. So say if you didn't ride the motorcycle for 20 days, then it would either drop out, or start draining the bikes actual battery, that's fine. We could wire up the boomerang so that it only drew power from the bike when the bike was actually running (assuming the boomerang unit has somewhat current quick charge battery technology). This 20 days of "full on" time, what is the ping/sync rate, once every 5 minutes or so?

Greg B.Tracker said:
The downside is that a server needs maintenance and attracts a monthly fee.
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It would be nice if you would let us run our own server (like the TrackMe app does). Takes the load off you guys, especially if we wanted it to ping our location against the geofence every 10 seconds ;)

Greg B.Tracker said:
We can provide SIMs as part of the bundle. So, you get the device, the server access (Mapping, reports, geofence etc) & the hardware. It’s difficult to see this getting below $150 for hadware & $15 /month, however.
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I would be interested in your equipment if the cost for the hardware was $150 and the total monthly cost including sim card and service with unlimited SMS/tracking for $15/mo.

Greg B.Tracker said:
Can you not but a Pay As You Go SIM and top-it-up periodically on and of the other networks?
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I'm sure there are other pay-as-you-go providers that we could use. I only picked Wind because it's unlimited, and only $6.67/month! It would probably make more sense NOT to go with Wind, due to their limited coverage area.

Another company, Rogers, they are much larger, have a massive coverage area, would only be $7.83/mo for a similar service http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-products/paygo_promotions_monthlydiscount

I'm sure their sim would work with your equipment.

Greg B.Tracker said:
3. We cannot offer our Pro device in the US currently as the networks do not support LBS (enCell GSM Triangulation) there.
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Our phones/networks here allow us to calculate our position without using GPS (tower triangulation), are you saying the system is different over in Europe so you don't have it working for Canadian towers with your current hardware?
 
chiefswallow said:
That sounds OK. So say if you didn't ride the motorcycle for 20 days, then it would either drop out, or start draining the bikes actual battery, that's fine. We could wire up the boomerang so that it only drew power from the bike when the bike was actually running (assuming the boomerang unit has somewhat current quick charge battery technology). This 20 days of "full on" time, what is the ping/sync rate, once every 5 minutes or so?

Our current line-up are specifically set-up so that they do not require an external power-source of any kind.

That way, they can be used to protect almost anything.


We do have the capability to easily add a 'charging tail' to the unit so that it can draw power from the bike from a Ignition-fed source.


When off, the device would depend on internal power.


The batteries last about 1000 updates. You can work your lifetime off that. 5 min update would get you just under 5 days -using internal power only.

It would be highly unusual in the industry to running such a frequent update when external power is absent.

Rather, you'd change the set-up profile so that the unit switches everything off except the accelerometer which detects movement.
If the bike is moved, unit goes into alarm and sends an alert.

It would be nice if you would let us run our own server (like the TrackMe app does). Takes the load off you guys, especially if we wanted it to ping our location against the geofence every 10 seconds ;)

The TrackMe app is not running a server as such. Rather, it seems to be peer-to-peer, sending info from the target phone to the Admin phone. This creates all sorts of problems. Even if it supported Geo Fencing, it would have to be running on the target phone, eating batteries. And, you won't get a breasdcrumb trail of historical positions and a whole bunch of other stuff which we have as standard on our server.

I would be interested in your equipment if the cost for the hardware was $150 and the total monthly cost including sim card and service with unlimited SMS/tracking for $15/mo

I'll pass your suggested pricing to our VPs to see what they can do.

I'm sure there are other pay-as-you-go providers that we could use. I only picked Wind because it's unlimited, and only $6.67/month! It would probably make more sense NOT to go with Wind, due to their limited coverage area.

Another company, Rogers, they are much larger, have a massive coverage area, would only be $7.83/mo for a similar service http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-products/paygo_promotions_monthlydiscount

I'm sure their sim would work with your equipment.

To be honest, consumers are never going to be able to purchase plans as competitively as we can -simply due to our vast deployment base of >500,000 units. We need to find a way to provide you guys with the package (Server Access & SIM) at a monthly $ that you can live with. The huge advantage for you is, if your bike ends up in Mexico, our SIMs will still transmit.

You cannot depend on a small network.

Our phones/networks here allow us to calculate our position without using GPS (tower triangulation), are you saying the system is different over in Europe so you don't have it working for Canadian towers with your current hardware?
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It's not about diffferences in technology, its about getting roaming agreements where networks share "LBS" data -not just GSM coverage. Getting the live feeds back -across a lot of countries isn't all that easy. Europe has that all sewn up as we're one big happy family under the E.U and it's 28 countries. I'll look into the LBS situation in North America and see what can be done.

All that aside, we can certainly provide a tasty solution to stop your bikes getting stolen!

 
Greg B.Tracker said:
The TrackMe app is not running a server as such. Rather, it seems to be peer-to-peer, sending info from the target phone to the Admin phone. This creates all sorts of problems. Even if it supported Geo Fencing, it would have to be running on the target phone, eating batteries. And, you won't get a breasdcrumb trail of historical positions and a whole bunch of other stuff which we have as standard on our server.
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The TrackMe app does in fact use a real server. You can use their server for free, or run your own (on your home PC or a server on the internet). It records the pings from the phone to create real trails, and it'll show you the last position of the phone in case the battery is removed from the phone, smashed, etc.

Track_Me_trail.jpg


It does also support server side geo fencing but it's currently not working on Android (works with Windows phone, etc.).

http://www.luisespinosa.com/trackme_eng.html

Greg B.Tracker said:
It's not about diffferences in technology, its about getting roaming agreements where networks share "LBS" data -not just GSM coverage. Getting the live feeds back -across a lot of countries isn't all that easy. Europe has that all sewn up as we're one big happy family under the E.U and it's 28 countries. I'll look into the LBS situation in North America and see what can be done.
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Sweet. Because a lot of times we park in a downtown area with tall skyscraper buldings the GPS signal isn't very strong, but the cell signal is, so it might be helpful to use that triangulation when GPS signal is not great.

Thanks for the super detailed reply. I'm interested to find out if you can provide equipment and service for a competitive price. I have a waiting list of people that want my tracking system. If yours doesn't work out (either due to features or cost) then I'll get a china clone cell phone motherboard in a waterproof case and setup my own solution :)
 
chiefswallow said:
The TrackMe app does in fact use a real server. You can use their server for free, or run your own (on your home PC or a server on the internet). It records the pings from the phone to create real trails, and it'll show you the last position of the phone in case the battery is removed from the phone, smashed, etc.
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chiefswallow said:
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It does also support server side geo fencing but it's currently not working on Android (works with Windows phone, etc.).[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ok, fair enough, but it'll murder the phone's batteries. We're talking hours here, if you're running GPS to provide snail trails and report to a server. Test me: Run your phone's map, live positioning with your 3G on... Tip: Bring your charger! :) [/FONT]

If you want to talk about smashed phones and really trying on a difficult situation where the thief knows you have a tracker, somehow pulls off the fairing on the bike or locked saddle without triggering the accelerometer-based alert -only a server based timer that sends an alert if the Tracker fails to communicate would satisfy that.

If a guy wants your bike that bad, he'd probably just pull a gun on you! ;)




http://www.luisespinosa.com/trackme_eng.html

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Sweet. Because a lot of times we park in a downtown area with tall skyscraper buldings the GPS signal isn't very strong, but the cell signal is, so it might be helpful to use that triangulation when GPS signal is not great.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]LBS (GSM Triangulation) is fine, but its accuracy is not sufficient to locate a stolen bike unless you're downtown in a major city. It's, as I'm sure you well know, based on the strength of radio signals from the Cell Towers the device's modem can 'See' -or rather, 'hear'! If you've got 12 cells nearby, then yes, it's very accurate, but if you're out in the sticks... 2 cells... you're talking 15 mile accuracy (inaccuracy)! An RF beacon is essential here...[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Now we gotta start talking about your budget! ;)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If you want military-grade redundancies here, you gotta open up the chequebook! ;)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]We do have the Boomerang Tracker Pro... solves all these issues but we've it paired with an LBS provider offering cover in 163 countries... believe it or not, they exclude North America -it's politics, not technology. Perhaps your networks are looking for too much cash and it's not workable or, perhaps, the consumers there only wanna a spend 15 bucks a month! :)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Again, I'll have our team talk to some of the major M2M network players over the next week (Telenor, Vodafone, Telit etc) and see what they can offer over your way. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]We'll be back to you guys on this... meanwhile, if you have a wishlist of goodies you want your hardware to have... please email me...[/FONT]greg@boomerangtracker.com[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Have a great weekend. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Greg[/FONT]
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I like this thread because it is very informative. Gps tracking system is best to locate and track everything so we can say that Gps is best anti theft device that helps us a lot. All links are good. I am also providing Gps systems so for more information about GPS you can ask from me.
 
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As much as I like technology, I have no faith that even the most impressive GPS system will have the cops actually get me my bike back. It's too easy to jam and disable them within minutes of the theft. Even if you notice it's being moved, the trail is already going cold while you're still on the the phone with the cops. Confront them and you're asking for trouble from the thieves (remember, they do this for a living) if you lose the fight, or the court system if you win.

I would seriously suggest looking into a motorcycle specific anti theft chain and locks. The best heavy duty, anit-cut chains and locks you can buy would probably cost the same as one of these units, but without any monthly services fees. Unless you own the $50,000 bike, thieves aren't looking for your bike in particular, just any easy to steal bike. Make yours difficult for them and they'll move on. They want the low hanging fruit, of which there is plenty.
 
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raydowe said:
As much as I like technology, I have no faith that even the most impressive GPS system will have the cops actually get me my bike back. It's too easy to jam and disable them within minutes of the theft. Even if you notice it's being moved, the trail is already going cold while you're still on the the phone with the cops. Confront them and you're asking for trouble from the thieves (remember, they do this for a living) if you lose the fight, or the court system if you win.

I would seriously suggest looking into a motorcycle specific anti theft chain and locks. The best heavy duty, anit-cut chains and locks you can buy would probably cost the same as one of these units, but without any monthly services fees. Unless you own the $50,000 bike, thieves aren't looking for your bike in particular, just any easy to steal bike. Make yours difficult for them and they'll move on. They want the low hanging fruit, of which there is plenty.
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Hi Raydowe,

To use an unusual analagy: You might have the best water-proofing silicone in the World but if the application is poor, it won't work. Same goes for Locks, Alarms & GPS systems. The right gear has to be installed right...

To quickly respond to your opinion regarding the efficacy of a GPS asset tracker in ensuring the recovery of a stolen motorcycle... by using a tracker with an independent power supply, it is much easier to effectively hide the tracker from a thief. It does not have an umbilical cord to the bike's battery, directly or otherwise, so there's no reference point from which to start looking.

Jamming is not as certain to work as people think... punch-through is possible, particularly with handheld units, bigger hi-watt ones (truck mounted) will give the thief a sizable cancerous tumour before long too as, if you crank the power up, you're into Microwave Oven territory pretty quick- with nothing to shield you from the RF energy.

That aside, jammers are active until the thief is satsified there is no tracker fitted to the bike. If the unit is well hidden and more particularly if a decoy is used, they jammer will be turned off and the tracker can do it's thing.

(And for those of you thinking that a bug detector can be used to detect a tracker... only if the tracker is transmitting at the the time the detector is running).

All that said, a GPS Tracker of any kind is not intended to be used as the sole source of security on the Crown Jewels! People should take a holistic approach... Lock, Alarm & Tracker... a combination is always better.

Finally, theere are dozens of examples here in Ireland & elesewhere of thieves stealing the 'wrong vehicle', not checking it thoroughly and having the Po Po turn up at the nest and recover several non-tracked vehicles!
:laughing1:
 
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