New Rider - the ABS dilema

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inreb said:
It seems every time a technology comes along to make our lives safer and easier we find a way to negate the effects. Daytime running lights? Means no rear lights in rain or snowstorm. ABS/TC? Brake later power sooner. Reliable cars? Commute from Barrie. Drive thrus? 30 car line up. No sane person would argue against the advancements in isolation.
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Not sure what part of the province you hail from, but it's a rare car that only runs DRL on rainy days in Toronto. It's better than a few years ago when those same people drove (often at night) without headlights at all.

Same with the braking. Most drivers speed/follow too closely, so they tend to slam on the brakes, ABS or not. I grew up before ABS was offered--there wasn't a golden age of careful motorists. Not being crushed by a careless soccer mom because her monster SUV had ABS is reason enough to love it.

Some ABS systems could be disabled by removing the fuse (I'm thinking the Bandits and V-Stroms), so there's always that for the foolhardy.

Bedroom communities, traffic congestion and drive-thrus are urban development issues that go back to the 1930s. Not sure how they really relate to automotive safety technology or the legislation that surrounds it. Personally, I'd rather have a government that is tied into knots trying to make my life safer and easier. Dying prematurely due to government indifference (or malice) isn't on my Christmas wishlist.

I understand that off-road/dirt riding uses braking techniques that rely on locking up the wheels, but I suspect that's where switchable systems come into play.
 
I never need abs, front tires stick enough to put u over the bars and who uses the rear brake?

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As has been mentioned.Take an off-road course.
 
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nd who uses the rear brake?
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hehe - you may learn the hard way when you don't know how to use it......

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there is a reason it's there.

OP ...learn both brakes and when to use them....take an off road course, get ABS
 
Flywheel said:
Not sure what part of the province you hail from, but it's a rare car that only runs DRL on rainy days in Toronto. It's better than a few years ago when those same people drove (often at night) without headlights at all.

Same with the braking. Most drivers speed/follow too closely, so they tend to slam on the brakes, ABS or not. I grew up before ABS was offered--there wasn't a golden age of careful motorists. Not being crushed by a careless soccer mom because her monster SUV had ABS is reason enough to love it.

Some ABS systems could be disabled by removing the fuse (I'm thinking the Bandits and V-Stroms), so there's always that for the foolhardy.

Bedroom communities, traffic congestion and drive-thrus are urban development issues that go back to the 1930s. Not sure how they really relate to automotive safety technology or the legislation that surrounds it. Personally, I'd rather have a government that is tied into knots trying to make my life safer and easier. Dying prematurely due to government indifference (or malice) isn't on my Christmas wishlist.

I understand that off-road/dirt riding uses braking techniques that rely on locking up the wheels, but I suspect that's where switchable systems come into play.
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If you read the fine print you'll note I'm not against driver aids. After everything thats been said in this thread I thought I'd take the opportunity to lament the fact that any systems put in place to make life safer or easier just serve to rejig our behaviour so that the gains are not what they could be.
I'm not from here but during last Saturdays' snow storm I drove thru the GTA and noticed 80+% rear lights not on. It was even mentioned on the radio by a caller. The percentage is less where I hail(no pun intended) from but it's high enough to indicate people aren't plugged in.
You're right, there never was a golden age of careful drivers. I like gov. interference to a point, tying in knots is beyond my comfort level.
 
got the 300 with abs...no complaints yet
 
Never owned a bike with abs tc etc, but I definitely don't like the technology in cars.

I think it's useful for operators that have never explored the limits of their vehicles and quite frankly aren't that skilled. As an enthusiast, I don't want something between me and the controls, changing my inputs. If I'm sending the car sideways it's for a reason.

Better safety gains overall would be made with driver training rather than gizmos.
 
Car and a bike are very different beasts.
While I concur on the training - how about both on the bike especially for the OP who is a new rider.
 
I've been riding for about 35 years and most of my bikes have not had ABS. I have taken advanced driver training and understand the concept of threshold braking (in cars, anyway.) All that being said, I am a huge advocate of ABS in cars and especially in motorcycles. The last 3 bikes I have owned have had ABS. I have only had to use my ABS on the bike once... when a bear darted out in front of me while riding through the mountains in New Hampshire on a rainy day. In cases like that, my main interest is in avoiding a collision, and not thinking about braking (after all, in a panic situation, manoeuvring 1000 lb of motorcycle and rider out of harms way on wet mountain roads would take considerable skill and presence of mind... something you might always have at your disposal.) Most people never practice emergency braking, and are not proficient at it... let the technology remove that factor from the equation.


Bottom line... spend the extra money and get the ABS.
 
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As I commented before, I really don't get people who think 'ABS is the devil'. Proper ABS only engages once the tire has already slipped/is a fraction of a percent from slipping (as others here have mentioned), so it isn't like it interferes with braking at all -- Brake properly (threshold braking), and you'll never see ABS. Essentially, all ABS does is keep you upright vs sideways should you push your braking system past it's traction limits. In that way it is like seatbelts or airbags -- I don't rely on them or drive differently because of them, but if ever they are needed, I am damned glad they are there.

Also, ABS can even aid in learning how to brake (imo), as you can test the limits of your vehicles braking system, and once you feel ABS engage, you've gone a hair too far (so back off a little and try again and again). Better to feel it engage and back off a little, than potentially locking or sliding the front while trying to learn how to brake on a bike.
 
I do not like ABS on motorcycles.
Sure, as a beginner, it will save your bacon.
Learn to ride the bike with the ABS, But to hone actual skills, you can pull the fuse and do some braking exercises on dry and wet pavement.

It won't be long until every production bike has it, so you will never actually need the skills. You could continue riding with ABS, oblivious as to how real brakes work.

I hate ABS on bikes, And Brian P, I am surprised at you for saying that you would own a bike, and want a bike with ABS.
 
I own with and without, and do a lot of threshold braking on the track. I'll still take modern ABS. I can think of several crashes over my history of riding (37 years of it if you include all my childhood riding) where ABS likely would have saved me a crash. Mostly notably, last November when I rolled up to a stop sign in cold weather and the front end literally went out from underneath me with no indication while I was distracted trying to keep the bike running with what turned out to be a vacuum leak, at about 5km/h; no joke, the frame slider left a mark on the pavement only about a foot long.
 
Wouldn't want abs on a bike like the Ducati Hypermotard,but i wouldn't buy a 900lb+ tourer like the Wing without it.
 
When I started out I routinely practiced emergency braking and locked either brake to get accustomed to the feel of it. You can lock the rear from accidentally dumping the clutch in the wet and abs won't help you there.

Now I routinely lock my rear on purpose when making really tight direction changes at slower speeds, not to mention offroad.

I'm not saying abs is evil but I think one should learn to not rely on it. I wouldn't buy a bike without the option to disable it.
 
Different strokes for different folks. Some people see a real beauty in simple accessible technology. That's explains certain subcultures of the motorcycling hobby. Probably commuter drones, heavy cruising barges and uber sportbikes aren't part of that. They should have abs.
 
How many people think that they can outbrake ABS?
 
wonderings said:
I know I can turn ABS off on my BMW GSA, is this not the norm with bikes with ABS? I am all for getting ABS and it should be mandatory, insurance companies wanting it or not.
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Thats the attitude I love...maybe you could make a list of what else should be mandatory? I dont think enough stuff is mandated yet

OP: The ABS if its a decent unit will not kick in unless you go over a patch of oil/sand and are hard on the brakes, it can save your life. 99% of the time the bike will brake like it doesnt have abs. you can really reef on that front brake when you have only God between you and a very painful or worse situation.

If you find you can activate the ABS too easily its probably going to be easy as pie to disconnect the sensor or pull a fuse and ride it like it doesnt exist, the brakes will be just like the non-ABS and will have all the braking power. There might be an annoying light to bother you however. Worth the extra $$ to have.
 
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