Clock is ticking as the Gardiner Expressway crumbles

[Rob MacLennan]

Forum Sponsor

I think the condos are killing the city. Increasing density in a city bounded by water on one side with nowhere to grow. The increase in condos are increasing traffic. You can't even see the lake for most of the length of the gardiner anymore, and the skyline looks terrible. As much as I'd hate to say it, Toronto is turning into less of a world class city because of all the condos. But I digress.

If they rebuild the gardiner, I'd like to see more lanes with an HOV which includes motorcycles of course. And there should be a barrier, not just painted lines to separate the HOV lanes from regular lanes.

I'd like to see it buried, with some green space above it to replace what has been lost to those condos.

barriers wont work, one accident and no way around would cause people to reverse down the highway or wait hours to move.
they also looked into a highway over the water

It was pointless for anyone to mention that as an option, because it's highly unlikely it would pass environmental assessment with current guidelines.

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

Yeah right. The minute that happens every corporation will leave for the suburbs. Most have. Toronto is already becoming a ghetto. A toll will make things worse.

patch the gardner while they start on tunnels. add a toll on the gardner to help pay for the tunnels.

 

[ZX600]

I think the condos are killing the city. Increasing density in a city bounded by water on one side with nowhere to grow. The increase in condos are increasing traffic. You can't even see the lake for most of the length of the gardiner anymore, and the skyline looks terrible. As much as I'd hate to say it, Toronto is turning into less of a world class city because of all the condos. But I digress.

If they rebuild the gardiner, I'd like to see more lanes with an HOV which includes motorcycles of course. And there should be a barrier, not just painted lines to separate the HOV lanes from regular lanes.

I had a condo at concorde (spadina and front) till October, the traffic is getting so bad that it was taking me 20 min to get off my building street (fort york) on a Sat night

In a couple of years it will be impossible to live in the area

 

[RockerGuy]

The main reason they want to tear down the Gardiner is because the wanna put condos there. Stupid call!

The place is exploding with traffic. There is no place to put them, they certainly cannot put them on the lakeshore.

I wonder how much politicians the condo boards are buying?

Sent from my phone using my paws

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yeah right. The minute that happens every corporation will leave for the suburbs. Most have. Toronto is already becoming a ghetto. A toll will make things worse.

Downtown Toronto is already at risk of becoming downtown Chicago; ie. dead and crumbling.

 

[TwistedKestrel]

I had a condo at concorde (spadina and front) till October, the traffic is getting so bad that it was taking me 20 min to get off my building street (fort york) on a Sat night

In a couple of years it will be impossible to live in the area

That area is nuts, mostly because there's nothing but condos in the area. How far did you have to drive just to buy groceries?

 

[Paul1000RR]

Yeah right. The minute that happens every corporation will leave for the suburbs. Most have. Toronto is already becoming a ghetto. A toll will make things worse.

Make it reasonable and affordable. Not 20$ per trip like the 407, but a dollar or 2 for the entire length of the highway. Even .50 cents each way would add up and people wouldn't ***** that much.

 

[AdRath]

Make it reasonable and affordable. Not 20$ per trip like the 407, but a dollar or 2 for the entire length of the highway. Even .50 cents each way would add up and people wouldn't ***** that much.

I agree. A reasonable toll is the best solution for all. Each user pays a little but due to the total volume it adds up. I don't believe that all those cars driving downtown to spend $5 on a starbucks coffee wouldn't spend a dime to have a functioning roadway. Also as a net benefit people will be more likely to car pool and save a buck which helps congestion.

 

[AdRath]

they're blaming all off the 905ers like me who commute into the city for work. We need to shoulder the burden of the costs, by paying a toll.

A toll isn't punishing those who commute, a toll is a way for users no matter where they live to pay for the services they use. This should include people who live downtown also if they use the road. Sure it might cost a bit more to travel from far away but carpooling is a good way to offset that cost and benefits congestion which is a massive problem.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

A toll isn't punishing those who commute, a toll is a way for users no matter where they live to pay for the services they use. This should include people who live downtown also if they use the road. Sure it might cost a bit more to travel from far away but carpooling is a good way to offset that cost and benefits congestion which is a massive problem.

People who live within the city can go over to public transportation, however crappy, or just use surface streets. Many of my co-workers live in the city and never have to hit a highway, unless they are actually driving out of town.

One problem with tolls is that they can run both ways. At this point as many people are commuting FROM the city, as to it. Start tolls and it'll spread like a cancer.

How many people come into the downtown core after regular business hours, to shop these days? How will businesses do when people stop coming in, because they don't want to pay a toll? I've already cut back on the amount of money that I spend in the core, because the lot where I used to park jacked fees up by two dollars, over the course of two months. How busy will the surface streets be, when people like me use them instead of paying a toll?

 

[backmarkerducati]

The biggest problem with a toll is what it will do to the neighbourhoods that are close to the Gardiner. People will try to take alternate routes to avoid paying, dumping larger amounts of traffic into residential areas. There will eventually be a balance struck as people weigh time versus money, in the end that will still be way more traffic on any and all parallel streets.

Better option is the congestion zone concept, but if we are going to do that make the zone be 416, basically the congestion zone equals the property tax boundary.

 

[Paul1000RR]

The biggest problem with a toll is what it will do to the neighbourhoods that are close to the Gardiner. People will try to take alternate routes to avoid paying, dumping larger amounts of traffic into residential areas. There will eventually be a balance struck as people weigh time versus money, in the end that will still be way more traffic on any and all parallel streets.

Better option is the congestion zone concept, but if we are going to do that make the zone be 416, basically the congestion zone equals the property tax boundary.

I don't think its fair to dump it on people in the 416 to pay for everything, if a lot of people are coming from other areas and using the road.

Road toll in my opinion is the best option. People who use it actually pay for it.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I don't think its fair to dump it on people in the 416 to pay for everything, if a lot of people are coming from other areas and using the road.

Road toll in my opinion is the best option. People who use it actually pay for it.

Actually what I am suggesting is a 416 toll, cross from 905 into 416 and you pay, does not matter where. Use the money for all roads with the Gardiner the top priority. This way there is little impact to residential areas since it is a toll you cannot drive around (like tolling one road is).

Tolling just the Gardiner will severely punish the people who live near it that they will now be over run with people trying to drive around the toll.

 

[WoBblyCaT]

barriers wont work, one accident and no way around would cause people to reverse down the highway or wait hours to move.

They have HOV lanes with barriers in Virginia Beach, with a shoulder. The advantage is when traffic is slow in the regular lanes, the HOV lane still moves at a high speed because they don't have to worry about some car pulling in from the regular lane. Also if IIRC, the HOV was like the express lanes -- it didn't have an exit/entry point for each exit on the regular lane.

they also looked into a highway over the water

A downtown bypass tunnel under the water would be a good idea.

 

[Red695]

That area is nuts, mostly because there's nothing but condos in the area. How far did you have to drive just to buy groceries?

There is a Sobeys under the one condo building there.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Actually what I am suggesting is a 416 toll, cross from 905 into 416 and you pay, does not matter where. Use the money for all roads with the Gardiner the top priority. This way there is little impact to residential areas since it is a toll you cannot drive around (like tolling one road is).

Tolling just the Gardiner will severely punish the people who live near it that they will now be over run with people trying to drive around the toll.

You might want to look at a map, to see just how unfeasible that would be.

 

[fastar1]

And, of course, now, they're blaming all off the 905ers like me who commute into the city for work. We need to shoulder the burden of the costs, by paying a toll. Never mind that the people of Toronto have voted for mayors who would give them circuses instead of bread for the last half a decade, who spent tax money on frivolous crap instead of infrastructure, while also refusing to raise taxes to a level that would support both. It's pretty easy to buy votes, when you're using other people's money to do it.

It's time for this city to realize that it can't just point fingers everywhere else. Suck it up and fix your roads, water system, and sewers dammit!

And uhhh, what's that other thingamajiggy that they need to catch up on, uhhhhh let's see... what's it called again... Transit?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

And uhhh, what's that other thingamajiggy that they need to catch up on, uhhhhh let's see... what's it called again... Transit?

Hence my "however crappy" comment, and yet they had $2M to piss away on a building, that they let lie fallow instead of renting or renovating. Land that's leased to businesses for something like 20% of the going rates in an area. Big renovations to a City Hall, that could have gone another 10 years without them. Etc.. Etc..

 

[backmarkerducati]

You might want to look at a map, to see just how unfeasible that would be.

OK, more feasible is a 1 to 2% income tax (flat tax) on anyone that lives outside of 416 but works inside of 416. No tolls needed and the money can go to both transit and roads. Make 100K and you pay 2K in Toronto tax. Make 10K and you pay 200...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

OK, more feasible is a 1 to 2% income tax (flat tax) on anyone that lives outside of 416 but works inside of 416. No tolls needed and the money can go to both transit and roads. Make 100K and you pay 2K in Toronto tax. Make 10K and you pay 200...

Even more feasible would be raising the tax rates on Toronto citizens to a more realistic level, that's not significantly lower than EVERY surrounding city, which would allow them to maintain their damned city the way it's supposed to be. That way they don't lose any more businesses to Vaughan.

Stop blaming the 905 for the 416's problems.

Forum Sponsor