WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"? | GTAMotorcycle.com

WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

fastar1

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I've probably paid this my whole life and I've probably had it explained to me a dozen times but I just don't understand it, and I hate paying for something that I don't understand.

Here's what I think it's for. In a case when these circumstances apply;
1- I'm in a collision with another vehicle
2- The other driver is deemed at fault
3- They have lower insurance coverage than me

Then the OPCF44 endorsement gives me coverage up to the higher amount on MY insurance.

The only way that makes sense is if each of our insurance coverage only kicks in when we're at fault. I tried looking up if that's how it worked and found this https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_claims.aspx

"Insurance companies must determine the degree of fault to be assigned to each driver for purposes of determining which property damage coverages apply to the accident"

To me this means the coverage all comes from the at-fault-party, but only for property damage (the value of the vehicles and surrounding property). That's usually the cheapest part of an insurance claim. Bodily injury and accident benefits are where the big costs are. So why would I want an OPCF44 endorsement to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage when my property (vehicle) is worth maybe $3000? It doesn't make sense.
 
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Carlos Vincent

Well-known member
OPCF 44R - FAMILY PROTECTION ENDORSEMENT
This endorsement provides additional benefits for the named insured and other insured persons,
as defined in the endorsement, if the other motorist does not have sufficient insurance to pay the
claim, or should the other motorist be unidentified. The limit of coverage is the difference between
the liability insurance limit of the insurance policy and that carried by the motorist at fault.

Insurance companies have the right to subrogate a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured.
This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid by the insurance carrier to the insured for the loss.
If they don't have sufficient protection your insurance company will cover the rest
 

TwistedKestrel

King of GTAM
Site Supporter
After scratching my head for a while on this, I think I get it. So without OPCF 44R, if you are hit by an uninsured motorist, the default uninsured driver coverage will only kick in up to the minimum liability coverage (as if they were insured) which is $200,000. It never applies to insured drivers (because they will always have $200,000 or greater).

-If driver A has $2 mil liability and OPCF 44R, and is hit by driver B who only has $200,000 minimum liability, and incurs about $2 mil in damages and suffering (hypothetically) - what happens to driver B? What even happens to driver A? I'm imagining something like - driver A engages a lawyer to extract the $2 mil from their own OPCF 44R coverage, and their insurance sues driver B for the maximum they can get. It doesn't make collecting any easier, it just makes sure that there is more to potentially recover?
 

fastar1

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After scratching my head for a while on this, I think I get it. So without OPCF 44R, if you are hit by an uninsured motorist, the default uninsured driver coverage will only kick in up to the minimum liability coverage (as if they were insured) which is $200,000. It never applies to insured drivers (because they will always have $200,000 or greater).

-If driver A has $2 mil liability and OPCF 44R, and is hit by driver B who only has $200,000 minimum liability, and incurs about $2 mil in damages and suffering (hypothetically) - what happens to driver B? What even happens to driver A? I'm imagining something like - driver A engages a lawyer to extract the $2 mil from their own OPCF 44R coverage, and their insurance sues driver B for the maximum they can get. It doesn't make collecting any easier, it just makes sure that there is more to potentially recover?
That's what I thought at one point, but it seems strange to me that without OPCF44 I would be covered for the full amount of my liability coverage ($2M in your example) only if I'm at fault, but for the lesser amount of the other driver's liability ($200G) if I'm NOT at fault.

And remember, the description I found says that, apart from establishing a driver's risk profile, fault determination is only used to assess the max coverage for property damage, not injury or benefits. And property damage in the millions would be exceptionally rare, especially if I'm only concerned about recovering the value of MY property (the car).
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
OPCF 44R - FAMILY PROTECTION ENDORSEMENT
This endorsement provides additional benefits for the named insured and other insured persons,
as defined in the endorsement, if the other motorist does not have sufficient insurance to pay the
claim, or should the other motorist be unidentified. The limit of coverage is the difference between
the liability insurance limit of the insurance policy and that carried by the motorist at fault.

Insurance companies have the right to subrogate a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured.
This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid by the insurance carrier to the insured for the loss.

If they don't have sufficient protection your insurance company will cover the rest
This sounds like what my insurer would tell me, and I still don't understand.

Can you go through my original post and tell me where I go wrong with my understanding of things? Especially the bottom line, which is that according to the explanation I linked at FSCO, it seems to me the endorsement can only increase coverage for property damage, which amounts to the value of my car and my belongings inside it. Not a whole lot of value there to worry about!
 

hedo2002

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Another "little wrinkle" is say you get it by an uninsured motorist, (in my collision 2 years ago they couldn't confirm the other riders coverage initially), then even if your NOT AT FAULT, you now have to pay your own deductible. Luckily, they were able to confirm his coverage, (OPP had put down wrong policy number, but initially State Farm stated he wasn't their client), so I didn't have to cough up the deductible.
 

hedo2002

Well-known member
Site Supporter
As for "belongings in your car" these are VERY limited, as to the type of items. Many times these items will fall under your household policy as opposed to your auto claim. If they are things like say work out clothes, then they will be covered, as many transport these on a regular basis. If you say you had your 55" flat screen in the back seat they will tell you, you have to claim that under your household policy as it is an item "not normally found in a vehicle"..lol


This sounds like what my insurer would tell me, and I still don't understand.

Can you go through my original post and tell me where I go wrong with my understanding of things? Especially the bottom line, which is that according to the explanation I linked at FSCO, it seems to me the endorsement can only increase coverage for property damage, which amounts to the value of my car and my belongings inside it. Not a whole lot of value there to worry about!
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
Right. There's not much I can throw into my $3,000 car to have to worry that an at-fault driver's $200,000 coverge for property damage would be insufficient. So why do I need this endorsement?
 

BusaBob

Well-known member
Site Supporter
OPCF 44R - FAMILY PROTECTION ENDORSEMENT
This endorsement provides additional benefits for the named insured and other insured persons,
as defined in the endorsement, if the other motorist does not have sufficient insurance to pay the
claim, or should the other motorist be unidentified. The limit of coverage is the difference between
the liability insurance limit of the insurance policy and that carried by the motorist at fault.

Insurance companies have the right to subrogate a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured.
This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid by the insurance carrier to the insured for the loss.
If they don't have sufficient protection your insurance company will cover the rest
So this is coverage I'm paying for to help out MY insurance company if they decide to go after the OTHER GUY'S insurance company???
I thought we had a NO FAULT insurance program in Ontario, where your OWN insurance company covers YOU and only YOU.

How is this not a ridiculous extra charge???

As for un-insured other drivers, I though there was a separate fee for THAT too, namely: UNINSURED AUTOMOBILE.

So what the hell are we paying this extra money every year for other than just lining the pockets of the fat cats that control the biggest legalized scam on the public going???
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
So this is coverage I'm paying for to help out MY insurance company if they decide to go after the OTHER GUY'S insurance company???
I thought we had a NO FAULT insurance program in Ontario, where your OWN insurance company covers YOU and only YOU.

How is this not a ridiculous extra charge???

As for un-insured other drivers, I though there was a separate fee for THAT too, namely: UNINSURED AUTOMOBILE.

So what the hell are we paying this extra money every year for other than just lining the pockets of the fat cats that control the biggest legalized scam on the public going???
IMO keeping it complicated means a lot of people will accept less than they deserve because they can't afford a lawyer. No fault has failed. The fox is in the hen house.
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
So I sent a letter (had to be snail mail) to COSECO to get that coverage removed and now it's gone. Such a big whoop for $25 a year.
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
As I understand it, the at-fault determination only affects the amount recoverable for property damage, and affects the future rates of the person(s) at fault. I got that from this FSCO web page https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_claims.aspx#insurance

It reads:
"Insurance companies must determine the degree of fault to be assigned to each driver for purposes of determining which property damage coverages apply to the accident".

There's no way any property I'm carrying in my car is worth a million bucks!
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

As I understand it, the at-fault determination only affects the amount recoverable for property damage, and affects the future rates of the person(s) at fault. I got that from this FSCO web page https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_claims.aspx#insurance

It reads:
"Insurance companies must determine the degree of fault to be assigned to each driver for purposes of determining which property damage coverages apply to the accident".

There's no way any property I'm carrying in my car is worth a million bucks!
The OPCF44r endorsement is a liability coverage, not property.

It's fairly cheap and covers some gaps that typically aren't considered since a lot of collisions have several scenarios. Number of claimants, family members involved in a collision and not everyone has the same coverage or any coverage.

There are other ways to reduce premiums without increasing liability exposure to you and your family. That's why an agent or broker would likely discourage someone from doing it or have them complete a written request so, it doesn't come back on them if a policy holder is on the hook for mega bucks because they wanted to save $25 each year. As long as it's an informed decision......it's all good.
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
Re: WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

The OPCF44r endorsement is a liability coverage, not property.

It's fairly cheap and covers some gaps that typically aren't considered since a lot of collisions have several scenarios. Number of claimants, family members involved in a collision and not everyone has the same coverage or any coverage.

There are other ways to reduce premiums without increasing liability exposure to you and your family. That's why an agent or broker would likely discourage someone from doing it or have them complete a written request so, it doesn't come back on them if a policy holder is on the hook for mega bucks because they wanted to save $25 each year. As long as it's an informed decision......it's all good.
Where were you two months ago?

And why does all the info I can find indicate that fault determination has no bearing on liability?
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

Where were you two months ago?

And why does all the info I can find indicate that fault determination has no bearing on liability?
Sorry man. I probably didn't see it or was expecting on the insurance pros to chime in.

When it comes fault determination, I'm not a pro. An agent or broker should answer that one. I have an idea but, it might be a little off.

Ps just ask for the 44 to be added on at renewal. And talk to your agent about your coverages and premiums. See where you can save in some areas that have a better value to you and provide the best coverages.


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fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
Re: WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

Sorry man. I probably didn't see it or was expecting on the insurance pros to chime in.

When it comes fault determination, I'm not a pro. An agent or broker should answer that one. I have an idea but, it might be a little off.

Ps just ask for the 44 to be added on at renewal. And talk to your agent about your coverages and premiums. See where you can save in some areas that have a better value to you and provide the best coverages.


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No need to apologize, any info is welcome!

It's not too late for me to add it back on, I had it timed with my renewal for Dec 30, but I'd just like to understand it first. I spoke to 2 reps at COSECO and they couldn't help me understand. Not sure if a broker would necessarily do any better.
 

yodude

Banned
So this is coverage I'm paying for to help out MY insurance company if they decide to go after the OTHER GUY'S insurance company???
I thought we had a NO FAULT insurance program in Ontario, where your OWN insurance company covers YOU and only YOU.

How is this not a ridiculous extra charge???

As for un-insured other drivers, I though there was a separate fee for THAT too, namely: UNINSURED AUTOMOBILE.

So what the hell are we paying this extra money every year for other than just lining the pockets of the fat cats that control the biggest legalized scam on the public going???
+1?
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
WTH is OPCF44 "Family Protection Endorsement"?

Some motorists travel with family members and they may not have coverage.

Ohip covers the basics and you might have other coverage from your employer. But there could be extensive rehabilitation needs.

Think of family members that don't have insurance of their own.

For some folks, it's not a big deal.

I've got 5 kids ages 18 through 8 and I drive my 74 y/o mother to doctor appointments etc. Only one (18 y/o) drives and has insurance.

They could end up with serious injuries that require rehab.

Just food for thought. Everyone's circumstances are different.





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