WTF accidents in the GTA this week?

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Baggsy said:
Raise the age to drive to 25. That would take the accidents waiting to happen off of the road, until they've hopefullly matured.
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Studies have proven that you learn best when your young... If you get a younger kid on an atv... They'll be better drivers when they're older.

If they abolished the drinking age... Think we'd have as many drunk 19 year olds driving? Alcohol would be another part of life and not something that is all of a sudden "cool" when they get their license.

You're 15, you can't do anything... Go to bed one night, wake up in the morning... You're able to drive.

You're 17, you have no real say about anything that's going on around you... go to bed one night... Wake up, you're all of a sudden able to watch porn, buy lottery tickets, gamble and vote

You're 18... Go to bed, wake up... You can drink, go to strip clubs, gamble, vote, drive, smoke... Do whatever the **** your little heart desires... And you die as a result.

Not saying everyone is stupid.., but we've ALL done stupid things as a result of the restrictions placed on us by society... We introduced to some things soon enough. Waiting can hinder more than it helps


- Randy
 
ReaImDown said:
Studies have proven that you learn best when your young... If you get a younger kid on an atv... They'll be better drivers when they're older.

If they abolished the drinking age... Think we'd have as many drunk 19 year olds driving? Alcohol would be another part of life and not something that is all of a sudden "cool" when they get their license.

You're 15, you can't do anything... Go to bed one night, wake up in the morning... You're able to drive.

You're 17, you have no real say about anything that's going on around you... go to bed one night... Wake up, you're all of a sudden able to watch porn, buy lottery tickets, gamble and vote

You're 18... Go to bed, wake up... You can drink, go to strip clubs, gamble, vote, drive, smoke... Do whatever the **** your little heart desires... And you die as a result.

Not saying everyone is stupid.., but we've ALL done stupid things as a result of the restrictions placed on us by society... We introduced to some things soon enough. Waiting can hinder more than it helps


- Randy
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You forgot - 16 - Join the Army and die for your country, but don't be looking at boobies!
 
For the millions of rides taken on the highway, i don't think that's a lot. Also there is nothing that will stop people from killing themselves. They will do it in the name of stupidity, Race, Religion, Nationalism, Money, some **** or the other. In the mean time we need ways to stop these accidents from clogging our roads.
 
Easy answer is that they give anyone with a pulse a license to drive.
 
BLUE_KAWI said:
Easy answer is that they give anyone with a pulse a license to drive.
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+1
There's a lot of people belonging to a certain demographic on the roads driving slow which causes those around them to be dodging and weaving into other lanes. While neither of these driving habits is a good idea, people tend to do them as a reaction. I agree that there should be some kind of refresher course for us all to try to keep us aware of what bad habits we might have, after all, what other input do we get for the next potential 60 years? I've lived in Vancouver where the speed limits are 90 km/h on highways in town, which doesn't really make a lot of difference and besides, aren't the Gardiner and DVP 90 km/h zones anyways? I think that vehicles are safer, better equipped and more capable than ever but we can't say as much for the drivers. Maybe there should be licenses for specific areas depending on your abilities. Drivers who can't handle super highways in Metro areas should not be allowed to drive on them. They'd have to take 80 km/h roads or similar. A road test in heavy traffic on a busy highway should make it pretty obvious whether a person should be allowed to drive on a highway with a speed limit over 80km/h.
I don't think that the comment about immigrants was meant to offend anyone in particlular, just maybe could have been phrased better. Personally, I would admit to having noticed, more times than not, especially having lived in Vancouver and now Scarborough, that while driving........................I'll leave it up to you to finish my statement whichever way you like and we can all be happy with it.
 
well, let's see what happened here...

"the victims’ left their Toyota Echo when it came to a stop in a “live lane” because of a flat rear tire"...well, if your car gets a flat, DON'T LEAVE IT IN A LIVE LANE...pull that beast over to the shoulder...

"Lincoln Town Car struck the rear of a Nissan Altima"...

“A vehicle traveling southbound on the 410 crossed into the northbound lanes.”

these are not speed related, these are just stupid drivers, doing stupid things...really, at the end of the day, the source for all these problems is people just not being trained properly to operate a motor vehicle, we need tougher training and testing to get a license, and some stronger measures in allowing people to keep them...i am amazed at how some people are able to obtain and retain their license...
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Speed is not the problem. We need to raise the bar for having a license. Maybe model it on current system for truck drivers, if you have two at-fault accidents within two years you go through the system again, and maybe throw in a basic physics class to introduce concepts like mass, momentum, and friction. Goal of any changes to the licensing system would be to reduce the number of licensed drivers in Ontario by 10%-30%.
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+10000000000
Its way to easy for people who can't drive to get their license. You live in Toronto yet you get your test done in some sleepy quiet northern town with two traffic lights and its completely fine?! An old girlfriend of mine cried to get hers and she should have NEVER been behind the wheel of a car. I lost any respect for our licensing system when I was in my teens.

This is my signature
 
As I like to shout and curse from the comfort of my seat when some jerkface does something stupid on the road - GO PUT YOUR LICENSE BACK IN THE CEREAL BOX YOU FOUND IT IN!

There needs to be higher standards. Some people just lack the mental and physical capacity to operate a vehice to the level which they should. People should be actively denied their licenses, frequently. It's so very much a privilege. Testing every 5 years, upon license renewal. I'd gladly participate. It would mean that more people woud be left with no choice but to rely on public transport, which would then increase the revenue in those systems and see a return in much nicer facilities. Win win.
 
Bermuda said:
As I like to shout and curse from the comfort of my seat when some jerkface does something stupid on the road - GO PUT YOUR LICENSE BACK IN THE CEREAL BOX YOU FOUND IT IN!

There needs to be higher standards. Some people just lack the mental and physical capacity to operate a vehice to the level which they should. People should be actively denied their licenses, frequently. It's so very much a privilege. Testing every 5 years, upon license renewal. I'd gladly participate. It would mean that more people woud be left with no choice but to rely on public transport, which would then increase the revenue in those systems and see a return in much nicer facilities. Win win.
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Although I agree with higher standards I doubt public transit will really benefit from increased ridership. Here's a video of increased ridership in Japan with much more transit infrastructure than we have here.

A caveat, would probably take a while to get this bad. But with Toronto's track record of keeping up infrastructure we could probably make it this bad with half the people.

[video=youtube;b0A9-oUoMug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0A9-oUoMug[/video]
 
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that stricter standards for getting a license will do jack-****! People will forget their training within minutes of getting their license.

We need to change society so that we're not as utterly dependent on driving as a way of life. Until we do, many people that aren't good at driving (vast majority of those on the roads) will continue to rely on driving, poorly, to get stuff done.
 
I find it interesting that everyone is focusing on driver training but there's no mention of motorcycle training. I just got my M2 last weekend (woo hoo!) and I can't believe how little you have to do to operate something so powerful. The M1 test is a joke, I read the booklet the night before the test and passed it with flying colours. At that point, without ever having touched a bike, I was allowed to buy a 1200 cc SS and take it on the highway. Does that not sound absurd? The M2 training did teach me a lot (thank you Learning Curves) but the test was far too easy. Even at this point, with the M2, I still don't think I'm ready to ride on the roads. When I get my first bike I will most likely spend the first few weeks on the parking lot or small, low-traffic streets.
 
EngineerJoe said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that stricter standards for getting a license will do jack-****! People will forget their training within minutes of getting their license.
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Not if the training gets reinforced afterwards ... by enforcement of something other than speed!

In Germany, it's illegal to stop on an autobahn. Run out of gas? Ticket! It's your responsibility to make sure your vehicle has enough gas. Flat tire? Ticket! It's your responsibility to make sure your vehicle is in safe operating condition (and the TuV periodically enforces that - mandatory vehicle inspections and they are TOUGH).

The polizei are out there, but they're not looking at speed (the limits are more sensible i.e. higher, so pretty much everyone follows them). Camped out in the left lane? Ticket! Change lanes without signalling? Ticket! And it's all on camera, too. The drivers are much, much more disciplined there.
 
danarchy said:
I find it interesting that everyone is focusing on driver training but there's no mention of motorcycle training. I just got my M2 last weekend (woo hoo!) and I can't believe how little you have to do to operate something so powerful. The M1 test is a joke, I read the booklet the night before the test and passed it with flying colours. At that point, without ever having touched a bike, I was allowed to buy a 1200 cc SS and take it on the highway. Does that not sound absurd? The M2 training did teach me a lot (thank you Learning Curves) but the test was far too easy. Even at this point, with the M2, I still don't think I'm ready to ride on the roads. When I get my first bike I will most likely spend the first few weeks on the parking lot or small, low-traffic streets.
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I'm going to open up a huge can of worms then...do you believe that we should have restricted licensing standards as per some countries in Europe? Ie: limited to a certain CC for the first year or two before you can move up? Would that help here? I for one would support it and think if it's properly done it would save lives. I don't ever expect to see it happen in North America though.
 
mimico_polak said:
I'm going to open up a huge can of worms then...do you believe that we should have restricted licensing standards as per some countries in Europe? Ie: limited to a certain CC for the first year or two before you can move up? Would that help here? I for one would support it and think if it's properly done it would save lives. I don't ever expect to see it happen in North America though.
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I would support that as well. I also think there shouldn't be any kind of license that lets you ride a bike without a test on an actual bike. Written tests only prove you understand the rules of the road, not that you are capable of controling a vehicle. The test should include more than just starting and stopping in curves and straight lines. It should include shoulder-checks and signaling at appropriate times, lane changes, left and right turns, etc... basically stuff you would actually do on the streets.
 
danarchy said:
I find it interesting that everyone is focusing on driver training but there's no mention of motorcycle training. I just got my M2 last weekend (woo hoo!) and I can't believe how little you have to do to operate something so powerful. The M1 test is a joke, I read the booklet the night before the test and passed it with flying colours. At that point, without ever having touched a bike, I was allowed to buy a 1200 cc SS and take it on the highway. Does that not sound absurd? The M2 training did teach me a lot (thank you Learning Curves) but the test was far too easy. Even at this point, with the M2, I still don't think I'm ready to ride on the roads. When I get my first bike I will most likely spend the first few weeks on the parking lot or small, low-traffic streets.
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The ministry, despite all the reasons that society has given them otherwise, is trusting us with some ability to make our own judgement with what we feel safe with. Wise decisions like yours are the reason that is still the case.

Brian P said:
Not if the training gets reinforced afterwards ... by enforcement of something other than speed!

In Heaven, it's illegal to stop on an autobahn. Run out of gas? Ticket! It's your responsibility to make sure your vehicle has enough gas. Flat tire? Ticket! It's your responsibility to make sure your vehicle is in safe operating condition (and the TuV periodically enforces that - mandatory vehicle inspections and they are TOUGH).

The polizei are out there, but they're not looking at speed (the limits are more sensible i.e. higher, so pretty much everyone follows them). Camped out in the left lane? Ticket! Change lanes without signalling? Ticket! And it's all on camera, too. The drivers are much, much more disciplined there.
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Fixed it for you... I agree 110% that our LEOs should enforce things like lane discipline, signal usage, tailgating, etc. While this will have a minor impact, by itself, is not enough to change the attitudes of drivers (read: fear-based vs. understanding-based compliance). I think the reason people drive the way they do isn't from lack of enforcement, it's from lack of respect for driving.. and one will not follow the other. North Americans treat driving as a joke.

I think we need better transportation options for those that don't want to drive. I think we need better education from the start (start educating before they turn 16). I think we need better enforcement of violations that AREN'T speed related. If we start doing this and stop lowering the driving requirements to accommodate the lowest common denominator, we'll start making the roads a much safer place.
 
mimico_polak said:
I'm going to open up a huge can of worms then...do you believe that we should have restricted licensing standards as per some countries in Europe? Ie: limited to a certain CC for the first year or two before you can move up? Would that help here? I for one would support it and think if it's properly done it would save lives. I don't ever expect to see it happen in North America though.
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yes, I wish it were like this here. Unfortunately, it is not.
 
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