With regards to motorcycling, does LAW = Safety? | GTAMotorcycle.com

With regards to motorcycling, does LAW = Safety?

Metastable

Metastable

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I'm putting this here, because the two threads this is talking about are on this section to.

So you have:

1 - Thread about guys in BC getting busted for speeding, having vehicles impounded etc.... doing something that IMO wasn't all that dangerous. They were often empty and divided roads and usually when other vehicles were around they were going much slower.

2 - Thread about trucks going through Deals Gap.... where trucks flip over, get stuck, destroy parts of the road and pose a serious RISK to OTHER road users.

Yet you have the same people siding with their version of "the law" and saying that 1 - Good Catch and yes by all means those crazy motorcyclists should be taken off the road and vehicles impounded etc etc.... Then the same safety nazis are trying to say that Trucks are perfectly safe and should be allowed to go through Deals Gap.

ARE YOU GUYS FOR REAL? If anything what we saw in 1 was FAR LESS dangerous that 2.

So do you guys just like giving an opposing view to the majority, or are you a bit .............? Do you really think a truck passing through Deals Gap is more SAFE than what we saw in the first video?
 
Metastable said:
I'm putting this here, because the two threads this is talking about are on this section to.

So you have:

1 - Thread about guys in BC getting busted for speeding, having vehicles impounded etc.... doing something that IMO wasn't all that dangerous. They were often empty and divided roads and usually when other vehicles were around they were going much slower.

2 - Thread about trucks going through Deals Gap.... where trucks flip over, get stuck, destroy parts of the road and pose a serious RISK to OTHER road users.

Yet you have the same people siding with their version of "the law" and saying that 1 - Good Catch and yes by all means those crazy motorcyclists should be taken off the road and vehicles impounded etc etc.... Then the same safety nazis are trying to say that Trucks are perfectly safe and should be allowed to go through Deals Gap.

ARE YOU GUYS FOR REAL? If anything what we saw in 1 was FAR LESS dangerous that 2.

So do you guys just like giving an opposing view to the majority, or are you a bit .............? Do you really think a truck passing through Deals Gap is more SAFE than what we saw in the first video?
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I'm on your side 100%

But that is how things go on here, I don't know why, but on this site people get on a high horse. Every other bike forum I have been on (with acception to gixxer.com and their track junkies) has had member with opinions and views that reflect a biker. On here I feel like half the posts I read are written by soccer moms and ****** off old men! Oh well, it is entertaining.

1. BC... I agree with you, these bikes are safe to push to the point that those riders were riding (which in all reality, was not REALLY pushing it). If they were in a civic I would probably have a different opinion, but they were on bikes that are designed to race!

2. Deals Gap... Does this topic need to be discussed? I mean really, does it??? Oh right, it was all turbodish! How in **** can you argue that a truck should be able to go down a road that the truck cannot fit on!??! Moreover, as a biker, how do you look at the pictures posted in that thread and say the biker was at fault (meanwhile the ****ing truck is in his lane)?

Ontario... full of ****tards
 
hell no, remember the one politician that wanted to bring into law seat belts for motorcycles? how safe would that law be? law = a bunch of people agreed on something, good or bad. you don't need turbovision to see that. personally it is my opinion that one of these "safety nazis" only goal is to get a reaction from as many riders as possible (aka a troll) and he's very good at it with out getting half as many infractions as D or yetti.

motorcycle fatalities have gone up since hta172 has been enacted, it must be the only reason (as according to one person it's the only reason car fatalities have gone down), it should be repealed or maybe not apply to motorcycles, then we can bring the number of motorcycle fatalities down....
 
How does anyone know what the skillset of the Riders was?

The bikes in stock trim are brilliant and will perform WELL above the speeds shown in the video.

That does not mean the riders have anywhere near the capability to perform at these speeds.

While things may not LOOK dangerous from the altitude the video was shot from, onboard footage may reveal something very different

At high speeds, things change significantly.

Talk to riders that start doing trackdays at places like shannonville and cayuga, and ask them about their first visit to mosport.

Most come in from the first session with eyes like dinner plates "HOLY **** THIS PLACE IS FAST" is a pretty common reaction.

The bikes are not the problem in these situations its the idiot sitting on it.
 
I've never been to Deal's Gap but from the many videos I've seen, I'm surprised trucks of any sort are allowed on it. Unless there's no viable alternative, why would any trucker want to use it anyway?
As for the guys in BC, sorry but they were in the wrong. Posted speed limits are not flexible based on the lack of traffic and the riders' perceptions that they are capable of higher speed. And that is the biggest problem, IMO. Far too many riders think that just because their bike is capable of extraordinary speed and handling it means they are too. Leaving speed limits up to the invidual is an invitation to disaster. It might start with a truly talented rider zooming along at twice the traffic and actually being relatively safe about it (e.g., GhostRider) but it soon comes down to Rodrigo (see another thread) doing the same when he clearly is still mystified by the intracacies of braking.
 
reciprocity said:
Talk to riders that start doing trackdays at places like shannonville and cayuga, and ask them about their first visit to mosport.
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My first thought was, so THAT'S why they have marshal towers... Because if something is in the middle of the track on the back straight and you come up on it at speed, you're not avoiding it..too fast..can't change direction or brake in time..scary.
 
Being "legal" does not automatically imply being "safe" and vice versa.

There are many real world situations where the safest course of action is to break the law.
 
reciprocity said:
How does anyone know what the skillset of the Riders was?

The bikes in stock trim are brilliant and will perform WELL above the speeds shown in the video.

That does not mean the riders have anywhere near the capability to perform at these speeds.

While things may not LOOK dangerous from the altitude the video was shot from, onboard footage may reveal something very different

At high speeds, things change significantly.

Talk to riders that start doing trackdays at places like shannonville and cayuga, and ask them about their first visit to mosport.

Most come in from the first session with eyes like dinner plates "HOLY **** THIS PLACE IS FAST" is a pretty common reaction.

The bikes are not the problem in these situations its the idiot sitting on it.
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OK... well how is it fair to assume that they are not skilled? I never said anything about their abilities, I only spoke on the capability of the bikes. You and I can not sit here and debate their skill set. At the end of the day they operated their vehicles in the safest manner possible for that style of riding. Was anyone hurt? Did anyone come close to being hurt? NO... Now on the flip side, Deals Gap, were people hurt? Absolutely! Regardless of skill set, if you come around a corner and there is a truck in your lane and you have no where to go and no time to stop you will crash!
 
Holmes said:
Regardless of skill set, if you come around a corner and there is a truck in your lane and you have no where to go and no time to stop you will crash!
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The same logic applies to the safety of the BC video as you have applied to the deals gap situation because of the high rate of speed.

Just because you can see the threat does not mean you can avoid it at 200+km/h
 
reciprocity said:
The same logic applies to the safety of the BC video as you have applied to the deals gap situation because of the high rate of speed.

Just because you can see the threat does not mean you can avoid it at 200+km/h
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You know, no one here drives the speed limit ( safe assumption no).. so duh. legal and safety don't necessarily have a strong correlation all the time. but trying to suggest that 200kmph on the sea to sky which happens to be one of the most deadly highways in Canada is safe... thats completely different.
 
Holmes said:
Regardless of skill set, if you come around a corner TOO FAST and there is a truck in your lane and you have no where to go and no time to stop you will crash!
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There, fixed it for you. That applies to both the Gap and the BC highway.

At the Gap the posted limit is 30 mph. That slightly under 50 kmph. The truck coming around the bend from the other direction will be doing less than that, probably much less than that. It's appearance may be disconcerting but if you can't stop in time, the problem is probably more with your riding ability and/or inappropriate speed than with the appearance of the truck (or deer, or stopped car, or wreck already there) around the corner. And even if you can't stop in time, at least it will be a low speed collision.

The BC highway is a similar case in point with a twist. The bikes doing 200+ kmph are coming up BEHIND other traffic doing closer to 100 kmph. That's a 100+ kmph closing speed from behind. Yes you should check your mirrors frequently, but realistically, most people will quite properly spend more time surveilling the road and traffic ahead of them as that is where the greatest threat of collision and closing speeds SHOULD lie. On some of the stretches of that curvy highway, you doing 200+ coming up behind them is like an ambush attack.

At that 200+ speed, if something should go wrong, you're going to be a LOT longer trying to stop than a 10 kmph truck or an under-50 kmph bike at the Gap. Your speed will be enough that your bike will literally slice through any car that might get in the way while you're trying to stop. There's a whole lot more chance for recovery or at least minimization of harm due to rider error or parts breakage at under-50 kmph speeds than there is at 200+ kmph.

And did you miss the mention of bicycles travelling the side of that BC highway? Now you're looking at closing speeds of 200+ kmph on them. If you think that's a good idea, then maybe we should open up spectator seating and bicycle paths on the grass run-off right beside the straights and sweepers at Shannonville. After all, people are always wanting to get closer to the action, and you apparently think there is no risk in close proximity to a bike capable of doing those speeds.
 
BTW, I've driven the Sea to Sky many times. There are many sections where driving well above the speed limit is perfectly safe. There are also spots where exceeding the speed limit by 20 kph is pushing safety.
 
Griffin said:
BTW, I've driven the Sea to Sky many times. There are many sections where driving well above the speed limit is perfectly safe. There are also spots where exceeding the speed limit by 20 kph is pushing safety.
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The point is degree. Travelling 140 on the 407 is one thing but I am not going to give a stamp of approval to a bunch of guys I don't know travelling 200k on a highway that I used to drive every weekend when I know the problem often is natural obstacles.

If you want to argue against laws, at least use good facts.
 
OpenGambit said:
The point is degree. Travelling 140 on the 407 is one thing but I am not going to give a stamp of approval to a bunch of guys I don't know travelling 200k on a highway that I used to drive every weekend when I know the problem often is natural obstacles.

If you want to argue against laws, at least use good facts.
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I didn't realize facts came in "good" and "bad". I thought there were just "facts". My bad.
 
turbodish said:
There, fixed it for you. That applies to both the Gap and the BC highway.

At the Gap the posted limit is 30 mph. That slightly under 50 kmph. The truck coming around the bend from the other direction will be doing less than that, probably much less than that. It's appearance may be disconcerting but if you can't stop in time, the problem is probably more with your riding ability and/or inappropriate speed than with the appearance of the truck (or deer, or stopped car, or wreck already there) around the corner. And even if you can't stop in time, at least it will be a low speed collision.

The BC highway is a similar case in point with a twist. The bikes doing 200+ kmph are coming up BEHIND other traffic doing closer to 100 kmph. That's a 100+ kmph closing speed from behind. Yes you should check your mirrors frequently, but realistically, most people will quite properly spend more time surveilling the road and traffic ahead of them as that is where the greatest threat of collision and closing speeds SHOULD lie. On some of the stretches of that curvy highway, you doing 200+ coming up behind them is like an ambush attack.

At that 200+ speed, if something should go wrong, you're going to be a LOT longer trying to stop than a 10 kmph truck or an under-50 kmph bike at the Gap. Your speed will be enough that your bike will literally slice through any car that might get in the way while you're trying to stop. There's a whole lot more chance for recovery or at least minimization of harm due to rider error or parts breakage at under-50 kmph speeds than there is at 200+ kmph.

And did you miss the mention of bicycles travelling the side of that BC highway? Now you're looking at closing speeds of 200+ kmph on them. If you think that's a good idea, then maybe we should open up spectator seating and bicycle paths on the grass run-off right beside the straights and sweepers at Shannonville. After all, people are always wanting to get closer to the action, and you apparently think there is no risk in close proximity to a bike capable of doing those speeds.
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really? Going around a blind right hairpin at 50km and BOOM a ****ing truck in your lane! Yes, some situations you could save it, but do you think all situations you could just because you are doing the limit?? Do you own a bike? lol

How are you arguing this Turbodish? Do you honestly believe that trucks (legal or not) should use hwy 129?
 
turbodish said:
There, fixed it for you. That applies to both the Gap and the BC highway.

At the Gap the posted limit is 30 mph. That slightly under 50 kmph. The truck coming around the bend from the other direction will be doing less than that, probably much less than that. It's appearance may be disconcerting but if you can't stop in time, the problem is probably more with your riding ability and/or inappropriate speed than with the appearance of the truck (or deer, or stopped car, or wreck already there) around the corner. And even if you can't stop in time, at least it will be a low speed collision.

The BC highway is a similar case in point with a twist. The bikes doing 200+ kmph are coming up BEHIND other traffic doing closer to 100 kmph. That's a 100+ kmph closing speed from behind. Yes you should check your mirrors frequently, but realistically, most people will quite properly spend more time surveilling the road and traffic ahead of them as that is where the greatest threat of collision and closing speeds SHOULD lie. On some of the stretches of that curvy highway, you doing 200+ coming up behind them is like an ambush attack.

At that 200+ speed, if something should go wrong, you're going to be a LOT longer trying to stop than a 10 kmph truck or an under-50 kmph bike at the Gap. Your speed will be enough that your bike will literally slice through any car that might get in the way while you're trying to stop. There's a whole lot more chance for recovery or at least minimization of harm due to rider error or parts breakage at under-50 kmph speeds than there is at 200+ kmph.

And did you miss the mention of bicycles travelling the side of that BC highway? Now you're looking at closing speeds of 200+ kmph on them. If you think that's a good idea, then maybe we should open up spectator seating and bicycle paths on the grass run-off right beside the straights and sweepers at Shannonville. After all, people are always wanting to get closer to the action, and you apparently think there is no risk in close proximity to a bike capable of doing those speeds.
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oh and they were not doing a consistant 200km, that is an invalid arguement.
 
Holmes said:
Was anyone hurt? Did anyone come close to being hurt? NO... Now on the flip side, Deals Gap, were people hurt? Absolutely!
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If you're going to make an argument, at least compare apples to apples.

You're comparing 1 event (Helicopter Video) against multiple events (Deals Gap).

Yes people have been hurt riding in that manner, similarly people have been hurt riding at Deals Gap because of trucks....
 
Wheelieboy said:
If you're going to make an argument, at least compare apples to apples.

You're comparing 1 event (Helicopter Video) against multiple events (Deals Gap).

Yes people have been hurt riding in that manner, similarly people have been hurt riding at Deals Gap because of trucks....
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read the first post genius
 
Holmes said:
really? Going around a blind right hairpin at 50km and BOOM a ****ing truck in your lane! Yes, some situations you could save it, but do you think all situations you could just because you are doing the limit?? Do you own a bike? lol

How are you arguing this Turbodish? Do you honestly believe that trucks (legal or not) should use hwy 129?
Click to expand...
Take the trucks right out of the equation and answer this. Should you travel around a blind corner faster than you can stop in reaction to what you may find stopped around that blind corner? Is it ever a smart idea to overdrive your line of sight when you don't have marshals standing on the corner who can see beyond your line of sight for you and warn you of possible hazards ahead?
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