Two speeding tickets in one stop? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Two speeding tickets in one stop?

GreyGhost

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My wife had a lapse in judgement and got pulled over in Springwater. The cop handed her a 111 in an 80 and a 99 in a 70 and told her to fight them in court. Ugh. She is filing for trial. We will request disclosure. He was following behind her, so they will be pacing or radar. Tickets were not reduced (apparently, no R but obviously she was not paying much attention to speed so hopefully that is correct). Has anyone fought something similar before?

My current plan is first attendance and try to get one dropped in exchange for guilty on the second (clean record so points don't matter). I suspect the prosecutor will try to get a conviction on both with a reduction which is a waste of time. Any brilliant suggestions on the best way forward?
 

Trials

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Holy she is so lucky she didn't pop a wheelie too, can you imagine the ticket!
 

Krime

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That has to be a real prick of a cop to issue two tickets. So instead of initiating the traffic stop after clocking her speed in one zone he instead waiting for her to enter another speed zone and clock her there for a double ticket (even after her speed had reduced 12km from the first one)? Never heard of something like that before. My guess is that it's been this cops strategy and he's done it multiple times before. It may be his way of better guaranteeing that one of them will stick. Or, did she get the first ticket and then sped off and got another? This I've heard of before.

I'd say your plan is pretty sound. Not sure what the situation is in Springwater, but it seems like it's pretty common for the disclosure to pop up out of nowhere on the trial date... and if this is the case and you play your cards right (unlike me the first time), you can get an adjournment and file for an 11b if the delay is long enough.

I once paid a paralegal for a ticket I got in Springwater from an OPP officer (worst one I've ever experienced still to this day). I ended up with a speeding ticket and failure to show proof of insurance. The paralegal I dealt with at the time mentioned that they could pretty much guarantee getting one of the tickets dropped which they did. The speeding was dropped and the proof of insurance stuck. Paid $400 for it so it wasn't cheap. It might be worth calling some paralegals to give you their take on what they think your realistic end scenario is, and then choosing to go with them or take it from there.
 

Krime

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Oh, and I'd recommend your wife to write down all the notes on as many details on how it went down ASAP (like now) if she hasn't already. It'll be harder to recall the events as time passes while waiting for your trial. She can then compare them to the officer's disclosure notes once (or if) they're received.
 

Katatonic

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2 speeding tickets in one stop? I have never heard of that before.
Don’t mean to be a prick, but it sounds like someone failed the a-hole test....


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Krime

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2 speeding tickets in one stop? I have never heard of that before.
Exactly. If this is frowned upon, maybe this can somehow work in the accused favour? I mean if I was a JP and saw this at trial, I would feel for the defendant... 1 ticket on your record is no big deal most of the time, but 2 is the tipping point where insurance will increase for sure. GreyGhost's wife didn't even get a chance to "earn" a second speeding ticket later down the road. Ridiculous.
 

GreyGhost

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Two tickets one stop. Lit up right after speed limit drop. Obviously she slowed down as the limit changed (although still over).

I wasn't there but I would be surprised if my wife "earned" the second ticket with attitude. My guess is that is the cops strategy to drive up overtime.
 

boyoboy

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Being 30 over deserves a ticket (sorry, but true).
However, the tickets show she was slowing down as the limits changed - maintaining 30 over. I would argue this is one ticket.
Maybe Im wrong, but I thought radar couldn't be used in a speed limit transition zone ?
 

PrivatePilot

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Trials

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Was the police car following a healthy safe distance behind or was he pushing her to go faster to keep with the flow of traffic, which in this case would be herself and the car pacing her. If he was tailgating her in the least that would be the entire basis of my defence, if he was 10 car lengths back :/ be ready to pay the tickets.
 

PrivatePilot

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The "I was being pushed by faster traffic behind me!" defence doesn't work in court, the same as how "I was picking up speed going down a big hill" defence doesn't work either.

It's no excuse, and for the most part, the suggestion of being "pushed" by fast traffic is all in peoples heads. Until someone makes contact with your rear bumper, you're not being pushed.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Your honour I have been rear ended before by tailgaters and have become easily intimidated with fear of being rear ended by yet another egressive driver following too close for safe driving, if that big black car had not been so close I would have slowed down earlier :| and this is where she sheds a little tear and throws herself on the mercy of the court.
 

PrivatePilot

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And 99% of courts will still stick the charge unless there's video evidence that the following driver was driving in an intentionally intimidating or aggressive fashion or there was contact between vehicles.

Trying that defence especially when the following vehicle was a police cruiser itself, or the situation was being observed by a pacing cruiser even if there was vehicles between them, is even less likely to fly.

I've heard this argument a million times by people - "I can't drive slow, people push me!". It's just that...a story that somehow justifies speeding in their mind.
 

GreyGhost

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Being 30 over deserves a ticket (sorry, but true).
However, the tickets show she was slowing down as the limits changed - maintaining 30 over. I would argue this is one ticket.
Maybe Im wrong, but I thought radar couldn't be used in a speed limit transition zone ?
I agree. She deserves a ticket (everybody knows to expect tickets at 30 over and she didn't notice the cop behind her). My problem is the two tickets and insurance implications. Two tickets won't be any more of a lesson, it will just be more money lit on fire.
 

J_F

gringo diablo
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assuming you wrote the order of the infractions in the first post?
ie: the 111 ticket first, then the 99?

what was the distance/time between the two?
just trying to visualize what happened, and how long she was followed
seems pretty crappy to wait and get another one
should have just lit her up on the 111 in the 90

just guessing of course
but I'm thinking you can take a conviction on the big one
to get the little one dismissed
but who knows? Prov/Offenses Crowns can be funny

maybe get an early resolution hearing to feel them out?
we've got a guy here that is touchy
he hates disclosure and punishes you for asking for it on HTA business
maybe take the hearing first and if it goes no where
order the disclosure and get ready for trial
 

GreyGhost

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assuming you wrote the order of the infractions in the first post?
ie: the 111 ticket first, then the 99?

what was the distance/time between the two?
just trying to visualize what happened, and how long she was followed
seems pretty crappy to wait and get another one
should have just lit her up on the 111 in the 90

just guessing of course
but I'm thinking you can take a conviction on the big one
to get the little one dismissed
but who knows? Prov/Offenses Crowns can be funny

maybe get an early resolution hearing to feel them out?
we've got a guy here that is touchy
he hates disclosure and punishes you for asking for it on HTA business
maybe take the hearing first and if it goes no where
order the disclosure and get ready for trial
Both tickets have the exact same time on them (presumably the time they were writing them). The first ticket is 99 in a 70, but the way my wife described it, they drove into the lower speed zone. No cross streets are included on ticket so I can't really tell which one was chronologically first.

I need her to take me for a drive next week to see what I can come up with (hopefully pics of knocked over speed limit signs :) ).
 
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Baggsy

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I've seen someone get a ticket from a stationery radar, and then get another from a second one, that was down the same street, and around a corner or two.
 

Krime

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I know it was in the states (NY), but something similar happened to this guy: Is it possible to get 2 speeding tickets from t - Q&A - Avvo

One of the lawyers responses:
"Yes I agree with the previous responses, it is possible. However, there is case law which states a motorist can not be punished twice for the same misconduct arising out of the same traffic stop. I would advise you to hire a lawyer and request he/she make a motion based on those grounds. The most likely outcome is that the court will dismiss the lower speed and you can either negotiate a plea on the remaining speed or take it to trail."

Hopefully something similar to this applies in Ontario as well.
 

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