Toronto uploads Gardiner, DVP to province | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Toronto uploads Gardiner, DVP to province

Jampy00 said:
"By uploading the Gardiner and DVP, the city will be able to spend billions more on affordable housing, fixing transit and building communities," Chow said. "Over the next few years we will continue to examine the city's finances and working on Toronto's long-term financial sustainability. It's a beginning of a journey, it's a wonderful first step."

When none of this (See red text above) gets done...
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Whadda mean, more talk an no action. Basically lip service is all you can count on by our gov.

Like what @Mad Mike says, I was thinking the same thing, doesn't the province already maintain the highways. So see above sentence.

Lets hope they just wrap up all the stupid construction on Lakeshore/401 instead of dragging it out for a couple of more years. FFS.
 
backmarkerducati said:
AFAIK the DVP has always been the city's (metro then mega) and the Gardiner was the city's east of the Humber river.

The province did download the portion west of the Humber to the 427 which was once part of the QEW, after the download it became part of the Gardiner. The original QEW monument is in the park at the Humber.
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At least this takes it out of the councillors hands that just want to tear it down.... Of course we don't know who will be the next Ontario Government. I also expect Hamilton to get their hand out for the Linc and Red Hill....
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Side note on the Red Hill. The report has been released and it confirms slippery paving material was likely a factor in a lot of collisions and deaths on the road. Who inherits any lawsuit risks as someone held back the initial report for years?

As far as the transfer of DVP and Gardner to the province, are there hurried meetings by developers to work the deals?
 
nobbie48 said:
Side note on the Red Hill. The report has been released and it confirms slippery paving material was likely a factor in a lot of collisions and deaths on the road. Who inherits any lawsuit risks as someone held back the initial report for years?

As far as the transfer of DVP and Gardner to the province, are there hurried meetings by developers to work the deals?
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That kind of crap with intentional suppression is where the immunity provided to civil servants/politicians should be broken they should face criminal charges. Stuff happens but suppressing the reports to save yourself is criminal. Take the firing as deserved or face jail (and ideally civil suits leading to financial ruin). Make it really simple for people to choose the light.
 
backmarkerducati said:
At least this takes it out of the councillors hands that just want to tear it down.... Of course we don't know who will be the next Ontario Government. I also expect Hamilton to get their hand out for the Linc and Red Hill....
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Apparently in the States there is a growing movement to tear down "old" highway infrastructure that goes in or through major cities. The claim is these are dated ideas from the 50's that no longer work. I am sure behind the scenes it's all about the cost savings. But being sold as making cities more pretty. I don't have an exact source just something I saw on FB, yeah could be questionable, but the comments were wild, but referenced San Fran, Milwauke, someplace in Texas, and Boston. Boston being the exception as they tried to replace the highway above with tunnels (the big dig), but cost the city boat loads of money. So other cities are just removing them and not literally getting into that hole, with no replacement.

I'm sure the braintrust up here will latch onto those ideas, possibly already in the works, and slowly forcing conditioning us onto public transit, or more bike lanes etc.
 
sburns said:
Apparently in the States there is a growing movement to tear down "old" highway infrastructure that goes in or through major cities. The claim is these are dated ideas from the 50's that no longer work. I am sure behind the scenes it's all about the cost savings. But being sold as making cities more pretty. I don't have an exact source just something I saw on FB, yeah could be questionable, but the comments were wild, but referenced San Fran, Milwauke, someplace in Texas, and Boston. Boston being the exception as they tried to replace the highway above with tunnels (the big dig), but cost the city boat loads of money. So other cities are just removing them and not literally getting into that hole, with no replacement.

I'm sure the braintrust up here will latch onto those ideas, possibly already in the works, and slowly forcing conditioning us onto public transit, or more bike lanes etc.
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Follow the money. Lakeshore, east of Park Lawn used to be called Motel Row. Now it's Condo Row.

Mr. Christies is gone. Who can blame them when the land was worth a zillion dollars and cookies are cheap to ship from wherever they relocated to?
 
GreyGhost said:
Or just straight up avoiding the city. I already do when possible. The worse they make it, the less I visit.
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I watched a bit of the "Lord of the Flies" movie last night. A bunch of civilized schoolboys are marooned on an island that had resources to sustain them. They break down into competing, sometimes murderous, tribes.

Is Toronto becoming a series of these islands? Latte island, Bicycle island, BMW island, High Park island*.

* There is a group that wants High Park car free as it would make it user unfriendly to those more than a few blocks away. They don't want to share it with others. It's their park.
 
sburns said:
I'm sure the braintrust up here will latch onto those ideas, possibly already in the works, and slowly forcing conditioning us onto public transit, or more bike lanes etc.
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Public transit only works where there is some. Eglinton LRT anyone ?
 
nobbie48 said:
* There is a group that wants High Park car free as it would make it user unfriendly to those more than a few blocks away. They don't want to share it with others. It's their park.
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That one got big push back a couple of months ago - haven't heard much about it since.
 
TK4 said:
Public transit only works where there is some. Eglinton LRT anyone ?
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King Phil made another non-announcement today. Blah blah blah, urgency, screw you guys, it will be done when its done, I'm not going to tell you when I think that will be as we are completely incapable of sticking to any targets we pretend to set.

It's very uplifting and we are getting clear value for the over $1M a year we are paying him. /s
 
GreyGhost said:
King Phil made another non-announcement today. Blah blah blah, urgency, screw you guys, it will be done when its done, I'm not going to tell you when I think that will be as we are completely incapable of sticking to any targets we pretend to set.

It's very uplifting and we are getting clear value for the over $1M a year we are paying him. /s
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Has Chow ordered more checkbooks as they may be running out?
 
Mad Mike said:
The province funds and maintains all highways.

Cities sometimes own and hold responsible for 'connecting links', portions of the highways that pass through the cities but were never part of the highway itself. There aren't many of them longer than 2km.

The DVP from downtown to the 401 is a connecting link, as is the Gardiner, Red Hill and LINC -- they were downloaded in 2013 when the Wynne govt canceled that long-standing program. It mostly impacted Toronto, Hamilton and Windsor.

This latest round-up funding brings municipal funding back to pre-Wynne levels.
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Can you point us to a source? RE Downloading in 2013 specifically? Or was there just funding cuts in 2013, that is different than downloading which is a change in "ownership".

All I see are that the DVP and Gardiner east of the Humber have always been municipal expressways not king's highways or numbered highways and have always been the city's/metro's (not the store..) responsibility. As long as I have lived in TO they were patrolled by TPS not the OPP and city crews did the maint and snow clearing etc. historically 90 kph limit instead of 100 kph, etc.

Gardiner west of the Humber was downloaded to the city by Mike Harris and converted from being part of the QEW (aka 451 by the MOT) to being part of the Gardiner. Current media reporting is all over the place but they appear to be confused about the part west of the Humber unless there is a relevant 2013 source?. Just curious...

Or was it they were just contributing some funds?
 
There are often things I would like to see in downtown TO . But $20 to park , $25 admission , $3 coffee, and an hour min of my life each way , so nope .

I hope off loading these from the city lightens the load and they are better serviced , but who knows how it will play out .


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crankcall said:
There are often things I would like to see in downtown TO . But $20 to park , $25 admission , $3 coffee, and an hour min of my life each way , so nope .

I hope off loading these from the city lightens the load and they are better serviced , but who knows how it will play out .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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On the flipside, now that Gardiner and lakeshore have separate owners, the repairs may be an even bigger mess. If that is possible. No great way to repair Gardiner with lakeshore open.
 
crankcall said:
There are often things I would like to see in downtown TO . But $20 to park , $25 admission , $3 coffee, and an hour min of my life each way , so nope .
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Went to My Little Bike Shop to pick up a frame that Cam was selling 6 years ago. It was a construction and traffic gong show. Told myself that was the last time you're ever going to Toronto.

Might be able to bribe me with playoff tickets. They'd have to be golds. It would still be a might.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Can you point us to a source? RE Downloading in 2013 specifically? Or was there just funding cuts in 2013, that is different than downloading which is a change in "ownership".
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That was 10 years back, but there are lots of news stories. Google 'connecting links funding cuts'. Here's one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/wind...am-that-helped-cities-pay-for-roads-1.1376955

DF has largely returned funding to all the province's connecting link roads and bridges. Most were less than 3KM.

backmarkerducati said:
All I see are that the DVP and Gardiner east of the Humber have always been municipal expressways not king's highways or numbered highways and have always been the city's/metro's (not the store..) responsibility. As long as I have lived in TO they were patrolled by TPS not the OPP and city crews did the maint and snow clearing etc. historically 90 kph limit instead of 100 kph, etc.
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Connecting links are local cop jurisdiction. For example' of you live in Markham, you get YRP on 7 and 48, but OPP on 407. Head east or north of local cop jurisdiction and you get OPP on 7 or 48.

Same goes for DVP, and Gardiner -- TPS. If you ever get to Timmins or Barrie, you'll see the same on 101 or 26.
backmarkerducati said:
Gardiner west of the Humber was downloaded to the city by Mike Harris and converted from being part of the QEW (aka 451 by the MOT) to being part of the Gardiner. Current media reporting is all over the place but they appear to be confused about the part west of the Humber unless there is a relevant 2013 source?. Just curious...

Or was it they were just contributing some funds?
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I don't think it was downloaded. The west section was enveloped into Toronto during amalgamation, the province completely rebuilt that section into 10 lanes before giving the roadway and lands to Toronto -- it wasn't foist onto them.
 
GreyGhost said:
I'm surprised. Normally walking speed and ttc speed are comparable. Bicycle is normally the fastest mode of transit in Toronto by a large margin.
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Yup, me a and a buddy of mine had that race. From King & Jarvis to little Italy, me car, him bike, he won.
 
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