The next race bike | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

The next race bike

TSC_113

Well-known member
The regional organizations don't have a way of enforcing either a horsepower limit or a weight limit, and I fully realize that being up against a Ninja 400 is going to be an uphill battle. (I got beaten on my FZR400 by a teenager on an almost-stock Ninja 400 at the last SOAR round.)

This class (nowadays) is meant to apply to motorcycles which, in street form, are eligible for the european A2 license class - max 35 kW/47 hp, max 0.2 kW/kg. It's unclear if that horsepower is to be at the engine or at the rear wheel. Engine horsepower is essentially unmeasurable, so anything less than 47 rear wheel hp from the factory is fair game as long as it also meets the power to weight restriction ... I believe the R3 is hitting the power to weight ratio; the Ninja 400 is probably heavier so it can have a higher power. Same issue with engine-power-vs-rearwheel-power applies to the power to weight ratio.

At WSBK level, where they have a comparable class, they have been applying all sorts of restrictions to try to even out the class. CSBK requires the Ninja 400 to use an intake air restrictor.

I didn't go the Ninja 400 route because I would have had to buy a new one $ $ $, and the aftermarket parts support doesn't appear to be quite there yet. All sorts of stuff is available for the R3.

I'm beyond chasing championships, too olde for that. I just want something that's fun to ride, and works as it should, and is somewhere near competitive.
The ninja 400 in track form is within 10 pounds of the 300s. Class limit for CSBK is 320 for the 300s, 330 for the 400.

Brian. I'm 55 and currently chasing two championships at RACE on the R3. So age isn't a factor and the R3 is a huge amount of fun. Those pesky 400s have shown up during the season and made podiums a lot tougher though.
Last round at Shannonville is in two weeks. You should come out and watch the little bike fun if you can't race it.
 

bakaboy

Old, Slow and Grumpy
Site Supporter
cool. 320lbs and 40+ hp sounds like a hoot. Perhaps RACE/SOAR will ask the ninja 400 guys to use the csbk restrictors too...even w/o a dyno the honour system would probably work? (edit-otherwise a protest could confirm the bike has a restrictor or not) just a thought for fair play-


waiting patiently for pics to come.
Lol. Fair play?

Why did R3 guys buy them rather than the Ninja 300? To have an advantage....

So now that there is a Ninja 400 the R3 guys are upset.

In a class where the rider weight can negate any lb/hp advantage I think people should just ride what they got.

Signed: 400Owner
 

Shaman

Well-known member
I'm going to just say that the 400s are very noticably faster than the R3s. Enough so that realistically, they make up for a lot of rider ability. Anyone that watched the race I did with Jake Black knows what I mean, I'd lose 100' on him in straights and be right on his rear tire in three corners again but my R3 couldn't even draft his bike, it just left me for dead. Granted, Black is lighter than me but Eros told me he initially thought Black was on a 600 when he was watching the race.
 

Jayv

Well-known member
Site Supporter
How does the CBR500 compare to the Kawi400?

I thought I saw one leading the lwt race at Mosport.
 

Slick_Steveo

Well-known member
Site Supporter
2 guys leading the points at RACE in lwt production and lwt sportsman >>>> R3 and Ninja 300

We brought what we had and knew that the bike was under powered compared to the R3, we are hoping for rain at the last round.
 

DoASkid

Member
I'm going to just say that the 400s are very noticably faster than the R3s. Enough so that realistically, they make up for a lot of rider ability. Anyone that watched the race I did with Jake Black knows what I mean, I'd lose 100' on him in straights and be right on his rear tire in three corners again but my R3 couldn't even draft his bike, it just left me for dead. Granted, Black is lighter than me but Eros told me he initially thought Black was on a 600 when he was watching the race.

When you came back to my pit after that race and told me that mess, I just politely let you dribble **** and move on.
But now I need to set the record straight.
Mate, I passed you on the outside of two!
I don't ever pass people in two, because it's too easy to get fed to the grass on the outside. You were going so slow through there I knew I had to though.
And FYI - I was running the restrictors in that race, so you had at most 2 hp down to me.
My 400 is definitely a competitive advantage and why I can race with proper fast folk like Ben LeClair, Matt Simpson, Connor Campbell, et al. And racing with them is making me better, which is doubling the advantage the bike is giving me.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
So what are your lap time predictions on the new bike vs the old one Brian? Will the new one be substantially different in terms of power or suspension ability?
 

LWTRacer

Well-known member
The Ninja 400s have the power advantage and are closing the gap on the SV650s.

Connor Campbell was down into the 1.15s on his Ninja 400 on Pro track after only having it for like 3 weeks. Where as Thomas and Van Slewen were doing 1.11s.

The mere fact that TZ250s are getting beating by Ninja 400s is something. Yeah yeah, rider is a big factor in regional Racing. But once those 400s are developed they will be a force to be reckoned with.
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
Lol. Fair play?

Why did R3 guys buy them rather than the Ninja 300? To have an advantage....

So now that there is a Ninja 400 the R3 guys are upset.

In a class where the rider weight can negate any lb/hp advantage I think people should just ride what they got.

Signed: 400Owner
it is working for csbk lwt...so why not keep it uniform between RACE, SOAR and CSBK?
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
It's going to be a wee bit before there's anything worth taking a picture of. At the moment, it's a bike with all the bodywork removed. There's going to be about 3 weeks without any visible progress ... about a week and a half from now is the scheduled time when I will be picking up the US-sourced parts at USaddress (shipments are on the way there), and then there's a week-long business trip not long after that. Gotta pay for all this! And I've still got a couple weekends on the fizzer this season. October is when all that winds down.
looks like your thread will stay active until the next update. Im making popcorn.
 

Slick_Steveo

Well-known member
Site Supporter
it is working for csbk lwt...so why not keep it uniform between RACE, SOAR and CSBK?
It only works at CSBK because they have dyno and scale

RACE, SOAR and now the VRRA can't regulate like CSBK does.

Case and point, riders who were under weight and over hp at RD 1 CSBK, some didn't ever race again, but they sure as **** showed up at the regionals
 

boyoboy

Well-known member
It only works at CSBK because they have dyno and scale

RACE, SOAR and now the VRRA can't regulate like CSBK does.

Case and point, riders who were under weight and over hp at RD 1 CSBK, some didn't ever race again, but they sure as **** showed up at the regionals
good points. I suppose the weigh scales could be problematic. The restrictor not so much. Im just thinking about options to keep the playing field more or less level.

honda and suzuki should be entering the fray soon- should be interesting.

I like this: yamaha showing some serious support for the csbk lwt champion. An R6 and a $2500 yamaha parts credit for next season. not bad yamaha. http://www.csbk.ca/index.php/news/news/2712-leclair-wins-yamaha-factory-ride-for-2019
 
Last edited:

mbroyda

Well-known member
When you came back to my pit after that race and told me that mess, I just politely let you dribble **** and move on.
But now I need to set the record straight.
Mate, I passed you on the outside of two!
I don't ever pass people in two, because it's too easy to get fed to the grass on the outside. You were going so slow through there I knew I had to though.
And FYI - I was running the restrictors in that race, so you had at most 2 hp down to me.
My 400 is definitely a competitive advantage and why I can race with proper fast folk like Ben LeClair, Matt Simpson, Connor Campbell, et al. And racing with them is making me better, which is doubling the advantage the bike is giving me.
subscribed


@boyoboy can I get in on that popcorn
 

Shaman

Well-known member
Mate, I passed you on the outside of two!
Which is right where someone with a big power advantage can do it. You had the front straight, I went through corner one without lifting, you had all that accumulated speed on me. What do you think is going to happen? Pro is a power track.

Say what you want but I was on your rear tire every time on both hairpins. Nobody who watched the race can dispute that.

I'm not massaging my ego, I'm relating how much power difference there is between the two bikes. Neither of us was going to catch Connor or John, and in fact when Connor and I made contact in another race, he said it was because he had such a huge power advantage on me that he thought he could make it to the corner first, which led to contact. Think what you want to think, I guess.
 
Last edited:

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
So what are your lap time predictions on the new bike vs the old one Brian? Will the new one be substantially different in terms of power or suspension ability?
I am hoping it will be roughly the same lap times. Not as much power, not as much weight, better suspension. Tire selection is still unknown.

Re the CBR500 ... the engine in those is really mildly tuned, and they're heavier. I know there is one rider on one.
 

STR

Well-known member
Yes the 500 is a pig...mine weighs like 362 in race trim with no fuel. Going to try and remove some weight this winter.
 

TSC_113

Well-known member
Tires: I've tried 3 different brands so far Dunlop Q3+ are better than the Michelin RS, Pirelli makes a race compound DOT that seemed to have good grip at Mosport but I only did about 8 laps on them. I may try them at the last round if the Dunlop slicks are not available yet.
I am hoping it will be roughly the same lap times. Not as much power, not as much weight, better suspension. Tire selection is still unknown.

Re the CBR500 ... the engine in those is really mildly tuned, and they're heavier. I know there is one rider on one.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Shaman

Well-known member
I thought the R11 was a pretty good tire at Mosport but not so great at Shannonville. The Q3+ just makes the bike work better and requires no warmers. I did some pressure changes to the R11s which helped, but I was not making my best lap times on the R11 for sure in tighter constraints. I also felt that the R11 was a little bit vague with the adjusted pressures in Mosport 5B and it skated on me briefly a couple of times when I was passing there and crossed some of the peg gouges on a tighter line. I'm hopeful a good slick will appear.
 

TSC_113

Well-known member
We set the pressures on the Q3+s when we put them on at lunch and never checked them again all day.
I thought the R11 was a pretty good tire at Mosport but not so great at Shannonville. The Q3+ just makes the bike work better and requires no warmers. I did some pressure changes to the R11s which helped, but I was not making my best lap times on the R11 for sure in tighter constraints. I also felt that the R11 was a little bit vague with the adjusted pressures in Mosport 5B and it skated on me briefly a couple of times when I was passing there and crossed some of the peg gouges on a tighter line. I'm hopeful a good slick will appear.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Top Bottom